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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:27 PM   #51
fertilized-egg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.gomez View Post
You would need to be a moron to put an OSX machine in the same column as a crap iOS Mickey Mouse tablet - It is an insult to what a Mac is.

Apple sold 4million computers - and 21million toys.
Allow me to bring out an old quote on an Apple product.

"It still looks too much like a toy, says an accountant friend. The gadgets ... are nice and easy to operate but I worry that my big number crunching won't happen"

The person isn't talking about iPad. That's a quote from an article back in 1985 questioning the utility of Mac, and the "gadgets" refer to a mouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Further - I am always amused in the threads where market share matters and where it doesn't. If Apple is behind - it's profits that matter. If Apple is ahead - it's market share.

We all know that both matter. Just like specs do ultimately matter.
Likewise, I'm always amused by the thoughts that if Apple is ahead in something it doesn't matter but if it sounds like an impending doom for Apple, then it matters more than anything else and Macrumors is full of Apple fanboys.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:28 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.gomez View Post
You would need to be a moron to put an OSX machine in the same column as a crap iOS Mickey Mouse tablet - It is an insult to what a Mac is.

Apple sold 4million computers - and 21million toys.
iPads are hardly a toy...
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:30 PM   #53
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Um, how many people are buying game consoles and smartphones as laptop/desktop replacements? My guess is not many. How many people are buying iPads and other tablets and hardly ever touching their laptops/desktops? My guess is A LOT. That's why it makes sense to include them in these stats. And all of them, not just iPads.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:44 PM   #54
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I don't like this attempt to mix PCs with tablets in this manner. They're different markets, though tablets are cannibalizing PCs. Tablets are doing a lot of that sort of thing to a lot of devices but again, it doesn't make sense to lump those things together when they're different devices that fit different needs.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:47 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blucurv View Post
The problem with netbooks is that they were meant to be a cheaper laptop, which includes modern PC OSes. They would then end up being under-powered and bloated like the current Surface Pro (anti-virus, 20+ GB of lost storage, cheap production materials). That's why many vendors ended up having to resort to Win XP and vendors ended up not making much money out of them.

On the other side, we have tablets, which have the guts of a super smartphone, a different interaction interface (touchscreen vs keyboard/trackpad), and much slimmer OSes. For companies like Apple, this is a golden opportunity since they make loads of profit on the hardware side.

Though you do have players like Samsung and Amazon taking a hit on the pricing, they're not losing as much as the PC vendors were.
The surface pro is not underpowered and has no where near netbook level hardware. Its using core i5 which is 5-10 times faster than the atoms that were used in netbooks.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:51 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by NutsNGum View Post
So is that the PC or post-PC market? Bah, who cares anymore.

NUMBERS.
More like Pages of Numbers on quarterly shareholders Keynote
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:03 PM   #57
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Ok. So, somebody did an analysis of sales for the PC/Tablet Market. They simply defined a segment by these two products, and that is fair to do. In automobiles, they might look at the Truck/SUV market. Now some might believe that a truck and SUV are very different things....and also feel the same about a Tablet and PC....but that isn't the point of the analysis.

Market research tries to look at a segment that captures reasonable substitutes of goods and services that customers might purchase. That's all. It doesn't mean that Tablets have the same OS or hardware as PCs. It just means that folks are buying Tablets as substitutes because they have many PC capabilities that people commonly use. And based on the flat sales of PCs, there is no denying that this is happening. Granted, a Tablet might not be a substitute for some folks on this forum, but it is for many consumers....which is what market research is all about.

BTW - I can't believe anybody buys an Xbox as a substitute for a PC/Tablet to browse the web and read email.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:11 PM   #58
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Without the (iPad mini) launch, Apple would surely have lost more ground to its competitors.’
Interesting.

First I hear of mini as important to Apple's share of tablet market.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:15 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CShort View Post
If you are going to combine Apples iPad with desktops then you better combine the XBox too and all other gaming machines.
The iPad doesn't compare to a fully featured desktop operating system as much as a gaming console/device which also has web, email, etc. does.

Come back with meaningful stats. next time.
Are there spreadsheets for Xbox? Are there drawing apps? Are there remote access apps for xbox?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:19 PM   #60
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Other than iPads...

I own an IT business, and I have yet to see any tablet other than an iPad being used in any business. I have never seen an HP or Lenovo tablet being used anywhere, even in homes. I have seen exactly two Kindle Fires ever used/bought, and both of those users ended up buying an iPad within months.

Just curious if anyone has any of the non-Apple brands actually being used institutionally. Or even with consumers.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:20 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
The surface pro is not underpowered and has no where near netbook level hardware. Its using core i5 which is 5-10 times faster than the atoms that were used in netbooks.
Surface pro is a pain in the neck because of windows. Put Linux on it, it suddenly becomes a thing worth talking about.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:34 PM   #62
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So for every person who buys an Apple product, 4 more say "meh" and buy something else. It just goes to show how important the gadget market is to Apple. If it were computers, for every person who buys a Mac, 9 or 10 say "meh"and buy something else.

Apple is running on all cylinders! Yay
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:35 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Whether or not iPads and other tablets should be counted as PCs has become a vigorous debate as observers take differing views on how "personal computers" should be defined.
iPads (tablets) are technically "personal computers". Just not desktop computers. In the 1960s and 1970s, corporations and the US Government used lots of huge bulky mainframes which were officially termed computers. What did most of them do? They computed data. They crunched numbers for statistical, financial, database, and research calculations. They could not surf the internet. They had no WiFi. They did not even play games. They had zero music or video playback capability. They mostly crunched numbers. And yet they were called "computers" because they... computed numbers.

It is simply semantic bias (or marketing bias) that the idiotic "analysts" still refuse to recognize tablets (and smartphones) as computers. Clearly they are computers. Personal mobile computers. They are many times more capable and powerful than those ancient ColdWar-era mainframes.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:52 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fertilized-egg View Post
Allow me to bring out an old quote on an Apple product.

"It still looks too much like a toy, says an accountant friend. The gadgets ... are nice and easy to operate but I worry that my big number crunching won't happen"

The person isn't talking about iPad. That's a quote from an article back in 1985 questioning the utility of Mac, and the "gadgets" refer to a mouse.

....
Still true. Apple mouses are no more than shiny toys nowadays
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 07:04 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skika View Post

iPad is a computer, in many ways much more than any laptop or desktop.

Hey bub. Please explain how an iPad is a computer in more ways than a desktop or laptop is a computer?

Is a truck an automobile, in many ways much more than a car?

Is a baby a human, in many ways much more than a 24 year old?

Or, are they actually the same thing when you subtract the hyperbole?

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Old Feb 6, 2013, 07:09 PM   #66
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Loosen the App Store restrictions a bit, Apple. You will dominate.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 07:15 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehustleman View Post
Yes it does which is why it doesn't make any sense to say mac vs pc because a mac IS a pc.
John Hodgman: Hi, I'm a PC.
Justin Long: Me too.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 07:37 PM   #68
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Quote:
Despite record shipments, Q4 saw Apple's pad share dip to 49%, becoming the first quarter it has not controlled over half the market.
Sorry but shipments just CANNOT be counted when determining market share. 49% is complete crap.

Just today there was a story that Apple had something like 81%

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/02/...kindle-galaxy/

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatalbert View Post
Loosen the App Store restrictions a bit, Apple. You will dominate.
Loosen them for a bunch of Apps no one wants? No thanks. I like the restrictions just fine.

Just because Android has something like 20 usuable apps and 699,980 others it approved doesn't mean they are good or people want.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 07:44 PM   #69
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Apple's market share is about to get even larger this year...
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 07:57 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skika View Post
iPad is a computer that is personal. PC stands for "personal computer".
So is my Casio calculator if we dismiss any realistic definition like you are doing.

Quote:
iPad is a computer, in many ways much more than any laptop or desktop.
So an iPad is much more a computer than laptops and desktops?

How?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post
Why isn't the Xbox in the same category? Because no one is buying an Xbox as a pc replacement-
So your implication here being that people are buy iPads as PC replacements. Tell me this then, how many people in the world who own an iPad do not also have a PC in their household?

Quote:
Just like no one is going to count an iPhone in this category; because it a phone with added functionality.
Except for screen size how is an iPhone not functionally identical to an iPad?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by slffl View Post
Let's see, they are both built on Unix, and you can program whatever you want for them. Exactly what is your argument here?
How do I program software for an iPad? I can do it on an iPad since it's a PC...right?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 08:16 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nazaar View Post
This is a silly argument.

Tablet / iPad like hardware fall under the PC category... Xboxe, PS3, PS2, Wii, etc under gaming consoles. Sure you can use them to browse the web, watch movies and stuff, but they're still not a personal computer. I mean really... did you fall and hit your head or something?
What? The iPad is not in the PC category, these statistics try to put them into the "post-PC era" and bundle them together.
The hardware argument is a bit odd.. gaming consoles also use the exact same hardware as a PC or tablet, whether portable like a nintendo ds or fixed like an XBox.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post
Why isn't the Xbox in the same category? Because no one is buying an Xbox as a pc replacement- You know what it is. I know what it is. It's a gaming console with added functionality. Just like no one is going to count an iPhone in this category; because it a phone with added functionality. They have their own categories in which they fight for marketshare.

A PC is a generic category with no preordained use. That's what traditional PCs are... and that's what the iPad is. Trying to eschew the iPad out of this market would just deny the impact it's having on the industry. If even a small number of people have stopped buying a PC and are replacing it with an iPad... that's what these reports are for!
Yeah you are wrong. There are stats. around the place as to how many people use the XBox as a PC replacement. Remember that the XBox also runs the full IE browser, it's not a bad browsing experience like the PS3 is.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by slffl View Post

Let's see, they are both built on Unix, and you can program whatever you want for them. Exactly what is your argument here?
You can't program whatever you want on iOS, the API's are highly restrictive. Try and add a bootstrapper, or an automatic image uploader. Dropbox for example can only do automatic image backup after the app is opened and it only has 10 minutes of background use.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macs In LA View Post
I own an IT business, and I have yet to see any tablet other than an iPad being used in any business. I have never seen an HP or Lenovo tablet being used anywhere, even in homes. I have seen exactly two Kindle Fires ever used/bought, and both of those users ended up buying an iPad within months.

Just curious if anyone has any of the non-Apple brands actually being used institutionally. Or even with consumers.
how long have you been around? Kids these days. Sure the old swivel hinge tablets etc. didn't sell as well as the iPad but there have been plenty in use. I have an Asus T91 on my desk which still is used in some workflows. We also have a rugged weather proof Quaduro here.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 08:19 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
Loosen them for a bunch of Apps no one wants? No thanks. I like the restrictions just fine.

Just because Android has something like 20 usuable apps and 699,980 others it approved doesn't mean they are good or people want.
I said a little, not Android level. Google Play is a dump. If you read the iOS app rules, they're very strict and strange in some cases. It's impossible to make an SMS app, to name an example, because your app cannot receive SMS. Only certain apps (music, navigation, and something else) can wake up on a timer in the background; others must do it from a significant location change or the user actually clicking the app. Developing for iOS is an obstacle course.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 08:21 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlCKB0Y View Post

So your implication here being that people are buy iPads as PC replacements. Tell me this then, how many people in the world who own an iPad do not also have a PC in their household?

I think it is less an issue of whether someone owns both, than how they use it. For instance, I have both an iMac and an iPad. For some work, I use the iMac...mainly for the screen size and for certain applications. But I also use my iPad for most of the same work when I am not near the iMac. Also, when I travel, I only have the iPad and it is my "laptop" and has served as such for more than a year of working remotely and traveling.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 08:22 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by nazaar View Post
This is a silly argument.

Tablet / iPad like hardware fall under the PC category... Xboxe, PS3, PS2, Wii, etc under gaming consoles. Sure you can use them to browse the web, watch movies and stuff, but they're still not a personal computer. I mean really... did you fall and hit your head or something?
How is a tablet a personal computer more than a gaming system? An XBOX 360 is not far from a gaming computer/tower/rig/b0x0r. It's just cheaper and doesn't use a mouse
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 08:23 PM   #75
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Counts as a PC for me. I am replacing my MacBook with a Mac Mini and will be exclusively using my ipad on the road. My ipad 2 does everything I need to do on the go. The mini will handle all serious tasks. My MacBook rarely leaves its stand and external monitor, keyboard and trackpad anyway.
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