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Old Feb 6, 2013, 10:22 PM   #101
mrsir2009
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Originally Posted by 2IS View Post
In many ways, much less than any laptop or desktop

Deal with that



My car is personal, it has a computer, I suppose you refer to that as a PC?

My PS3 is also a PC, as is my TV, the video card alone in my desktop is also a PC as is the calculator on my desk.

Almost forgot my noise cancelling headphones. It is computer driven and doesn't get much more personal than that.
Your headphones arenít a personal computer. Look up the definition of PC on Wikipedia... It says that itís any computer designed for general computing tasks. The computer in your headphones is far from general purpose, isnít it? Itís one and only task is to cancel noise. Just like the one and only task of your calculator is to calculate sums.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 10:33 PM   #102
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Nah, but Linux would improve it greatly at least by gaining back some of those 30GB eaten by Windows and by being virus-free.
Except I can almost promise you that getting Linux fully functional on it would be a driver nightmare.

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Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
Look up the definition of PC on Wikipedia... It says that itís any computer designed for general computing tasks.
iPad wasn't designed with general computing in mind.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 10:34 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
How is it ímoreí of a computer?
My four year old knows how to work the iPad better than most adults. However, he has no clue how my MacBook Air works. This is why the iPad is more of a computer than any notebook. It can be used for general computing and then some in ways that no notebook will ever be used.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 10:35 PM   #104
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Nope, can't do that, but it has a computer and it's personal. Those were the criteria were they not? What makes a PC a PC? Your definition? His? Apples? because non are the same.
My definition of a PC is pretty basic. You can install programs on it, both for entertainment and work, and allows you to perform all the same functions as a traditional PC.

To me, tablets are basically laptops without a keyboard attached.

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Apple calls the iPad a "post PC" device, so by definition, the inventors of this product are not defining it as a PC.
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure "Post PC" is a buzzword to sell more iPads and get people talking on messageboards (IT WORKED). If you ask me, there's not much anything post about it. It's a PC.

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You say anything that can open spread sheets and pictures. So my iPod is a PC according to you
The line blurs here considerably, but I'd say...sorta. What you can do on it is a major part of what makes a PC a PC. I mean I can install programs on an Xbox or PS3, but it's not a PC, it's an entertainment console. I can't write other programs on the Xbox, nor can I edit spreadsheets on a PS3. If I could hook up a keyboard to it and do these things, I'd consider them another kind of PC.

The iPod? The screen size precludes it from doing all the things you'd normally expect to do on a PC. But say if I were able to hook it up to a monitor and a bluetooth keyboard and mouse (or a touchscreen if I want it to be more iOS like), and it gives me an expanded interface that allows for more flexibility. It'd be a PC to me. Just a different kind of one.

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The other guy said anything with a computer that is personal is a PC. All the examples I provided meet that criteria.
I'd say he's wrong, too. Having a computer onboard doesn't make it a PC. Nor does its form factor. What makes it a PC are its capabilities. Using this criteria, I'd say the iPads is far closer to a traditional PC than iPods, consoles, or car stereos are.

Yeah, it's kind of a nebulous thing to define, and there's a crapton of overlap, but basically I use my iPad about like a PC lite. My iPhone? It's more like a communication device and info kiosk. It's got the same OS, but the size makes it much more limited in scope and usage. Therefore the ipad...yadda yadda yadda...it's a PC.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 10:37 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by lifeinhd View Post
You can't even program for the iPad on the iPad-- you need a real PC for that. It's not self-sufficient.
This ^^

Whilst this is not the definition of a PC, if you think about it, it's a very good criteria for calling something a PC.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 10:43 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by SlCKB0Y View Post
This ^^

Whilst this is not the definition of a PC, if you think about it, it's a very good criteria for calling something a PC.
That's only because Apple's dumb. You can make websites and program for other platforms from the iPad, though.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 10:51 PM   #107
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If an ipad is a PC, then so is an ipod touch... and I don't buy that for a second. To me it needs to have a user serviceable OS to be a PC- at least installable.

An Ipad is a Personal Computer Appliance. New category.. not that I'm saying that's a lesser thing per se... but definitely limited and very different to a PC.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 10:53 PM   #108
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Yeah, nobody actually browses the web or check email with their consoles.

Try again.
You still can't access things like storage or backups as far I'm aware without the use of a desktop or notebook computer. They're reporting it this way to spin the numbers as they wish, but it would make far more sense if these things functioned as completely standalone devices.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:21 PM   #109
2IS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
Your headphones arenít a personal computer. Look up the definition of PC on Wikipedia... It says that itís any computer designed for general computing tasks. The computer in your headphones is far from general purpose, isnít it? Itís one and only task is to cancel noise. Just like the one and only task of your calculator is to calculate sums.
Yeah, no **** it isn't a PC, that's my point.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:29 PM   #110
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You better not be including me in that. Ah kee ya!
I wasn't specifically including you.

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Actually, I consider the iPad a PC in much the same way I consider a Netbook one. No, they're not as powerful as my big ass desktop, but they cover the basics just as well as it does. Looking up stuff on the internet? Playing games? Watching movies? Listening to music? Typing up a document? Drawing a picture? Doing basic photo editing?
iPads are nothing like netbooks in my opinion. A netbook can technically do pretty much everything a desktop can do, it will just do some of those things much more slowly.

An iPad:

1. Does not allow a user to directly access its filesystem. A netbook does.
2. An iPad does not run a full desktop OS with all the features and freedom that do along with that. A netbook does.
3. An iPad is not generally compatible with many peripherals. A netbook running Windows will work with pretty much any peripheral that your desktop works with.
4. An iPad will not work with external storage to any useful degree. A netbook does.
5. An iPad is dependent on a PC for development of its software. A netbook is not.
6. An iPad does not allow full multitasking or have a multi-windowing environment. A netbook does.
7. An iPad does not allow access for a user to run other operating systems. A netbook does.
8. Even with a keyboard attached, content creation on an iPad is clunky at best. (1) and (6) play a big part in this.

I could go on and on....

The bottom line is that compared to a PC an iPad is both feature and resource poor. A netbook is full featured but generally resource poor. A netbook is a low end PC and the iPad is a high end smart device.

Last edited by SlCKB0Y; Feb 6, 2013 at 11:35 PM.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:30 PM   #111
2IS
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
To me, tablets are basically laptops without a keyboard attached.
A tablet like the surface pro, perhaps. The iPad? Not a chance.

I love my iPad for what it is and it certainly is NOT a laptop without a keyboard. If it was, I could get rid of my laptop and use my iPad to console into a cisco switch/router. How about USB ports? Another thing iPad in particular does not have that every other laptop does, which I take advantage of on a regular basis.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:43 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by SlCKB0Y View Post

The bottom line is that compared to a PC an iPad is both feature and resource poor. A netbook is full featured but generally resource poor. A netbook is a low end PC and the iPad is a high end smart device.
Okay, I'm gonna begrudgingly agree with you here. You know, since you put it that way.

...but I'm still going to say it's more like a PC than a smartphone, and sure as hell is more of one than a car stereo or a pair of headphones. I think PC-lite is the best way to put it, since I can create content on it, I can download a variety of programs to it, and can interact with it in a more indepth fashion than I could a console or other computerized device.

Basically, if I can't directly say it's a PC now, I can say it isn't far off from being one, and is likely to become one in the near future the more we see true and proper PC-tablets come out on the market.

So what is it? It's a 'tween device.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:43 PM   #113
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Except I can almost promise you that getting Linux fully functional on it would be a driver nightmare.[COLOR="#808080"]
It could only be as difficult as any other desktop OS.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:56 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by selva View Post
My four year old knows how to work the iPad better than most adults. However, he has no clue how my MacBook Air works. This is why the iPad is more of a computer than any notebook. It can be used for general computing and then some in ways that no notebook will ever be used.
My four year old is great with many appliances including gaming consoles, that doesn't make it a PC but it does show that the iPad is an easy to use consumption device.

I think that a statistic that included all "smart" devices that can do email/web/apps would make sense to see what inroad Apple has made on the overall market of those sorts of things.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:13 AM   #115
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You'll get a congratulations for from me for belonging to the 90% of... uhm... out there.
I'll take what I can get.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:14 AM   #116
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My definition of a PC is pretty basic. You can install programs on it, both for entertainment and work, and allows you to perform all the same functions as a traditional PC.
In that case, the iPad which cannot play Flash, cannot connect to USB devices, cannot open more than one app at a time, cannot modify or even view the file system, cannot be used to write apps for itself, cannot run powerful pro-level apps, and cannot have apps that modify the system in any way, cannot be considered a PC.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:33 AM   #117
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If you are going to combine Apples iPad with desktops then you better combine the XBox too and all other gaming machines.
The iPad doesn't compare to a fully featured desktop operating system as much as a gaming console/device which also has web, email, etc. does.

Come back with meaningful stats. next time.
did you type this from your xbox mate?
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:49 AM   #118
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hrm

Quote:
Originally Posted by CShort View Post
If you are going to combine Apples iPad with desktops then you better combine the XBox too and all other gaming machines.
The iPad doesn't compare to a fully featured desktop operating system as much as a gaming console/device which also has web, email, etc. does.

Come back with meaningful stats. next time.
Every time i use my ps3 web browser i throw the controller.

I would use my iPad all the time instead of my laptop if I wasn't a web developer.

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Apples dead now for sure!
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:07 AM   #119
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That's only because Apple's dumb. You can make websites and program for other platforms from the iPad, though.
I'd say that is mostly because the iPad is a content consumption device. People press hard to make it a content creation device as well .. but it is not. Short emails are ok .. longer ones become tedious work, especially editing. There is no way a sane person would start developing anything on an iPad.

That said .. I agree with you, the lines between PC and other devices tend to blur more and more. Personally, I am still not putting the iPad in the PC camp, but I certainly see that many people buy iPads instead of PCs .. so it makes some sense to put them in one category I guess.

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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:21 AM   #120
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Anyone who says that Apple didn't open up the tablet market is kidding himself. You can argue that nothing Apple put on the iPad is innovative, but remember who is leading and who is following. Even the consumers followed Apple, previously seeing no use for such a device.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:30 AM   #121
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... another reason why the regular iPad is loosing territory to the mini is that the last v4 update was downright boring. Next time, when they update the regular iPad design to be as sleek and sexy as the mini/iPod touch, my guess is that sales will rise significantly for those models again.

I, for one, decided to wait for the 5. (Until then I'm still lovin' my iPad 1).
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:31 AM   #122
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I'd say that is mostly because the iPad is a content consumption device. People press hard to make it a content creation device as well .. but it is not. Short emails are ok .. longer ones become tedious work, especially editing. There is no way a sane person would start developing anything on an iPad.
I will say that if I didn't have the bluetooth keyboard, I'd probably be much more guarded with my praise. Having an actual physical keyboard right in front of you does make it a much, much more useful tool. My experiences with Pages while sitting my iPad in portrait, plus seeing people do actual webpage work in Diet Coda is one of the major reasons why I'd class it as an actual PC (or PC-Lite since my big compromise a few posts back).

But if Apple didn't give us that choice, and we were forced to use the onscreen keyboard for everything? Nuh uh. I'd call it a straight up content consumption device, and nothing more.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:36 AM   #123
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demand for smaller and lighter ipads is the same as the demand for larger screen iPhones meet the demand or miss the opportunity.

and - give me smaller SSD options in iMacs please!
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 02:41 AM   #124
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It could only be as difficult as any other desktop OS.
Given that many hardware companies to do not release Linux drivers, it most certainly can be a lot harder to get things working.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:23 AM   #125
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Next time experts will say:

Apple's decline in the phone segment was hampered by strong demand for the iPhone Maxi. Analysts estimate that the Maxi made up over half of Apple's total iPhone shipments, with its larger screen leading to significant cannibalization in the iPhone range.

Despite record shipments, Q4 saw Apple's smartphone share dip to 12%. 'Apple didn't time well the launch of the iPhone Maxi,' said Pin-Chen Tang, Canalys Research Analyst. 'Its success proves there was a clear demand for iPhone with larger screens. Apple reacted too late, leaving an open market to Samsung. Without the launch, Apple would surely have lost even more ground to its competitors.'
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