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Old Feb 8, 2013, 12:43 PM   #26
prostuff1
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Probably failed the IQ and Mental Stability test to get on the Police Force.
And the background check for his gun
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 12:43 PM   #27
iMikeT
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
It works in many European countries.

Look at that damn truck. Two innocent women just minding their own business and the stupid ass cops who probably were barely smart enough to graduate high school decide to fire what looks like at least 30 rounds in to their car.

The cops who did that should be thrown in jail. Too many pigs shoot first and ask questions later probably because they are too damn stupid to make intelligent decisions. If cops can't even make a simple decision like telling two women apart from a huge armed black guy there is no way in hell they should have guns.

Hopefully those women don't die because they are going to be in for a major pay day.



Government-sanctioned thugs with badges.

100% agree.

And in Europe, NO ONE, cop and robber alike, have guns.

As far as the women getting a pay day.... Yeah, good luck with that. I knew a guy who was a victim of police brutality. The police acted on a tip that this guy's house was being used for drugs when it was actually another neighbor. The police stormed into the wrong house and pinned him down which resulted in breaking his back. In the end, he was awarded a couple million. When it comes to the awarded sum, the police department was "taking their sweet time" in handing over any of that money. To this day, I doubt that guy has seen any of that money.


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Originally Posted by anonymouslurker View Post
While I agree that what happened with police officers firing on innocent people is a terrible mistake, and they should absolutely be held accountable, all humans make mistakes. Not blowing it off or minimizing it at all, just saying that no one is infallible.

However, comments like the following always make me wonder what has happened to a person for them to use such huge generalizing statements to demonstrate such a tremendous disdain for a group of people who are generally good, and perform a dangerous job for the benefit of society.











Seriously... what happened to you to fill you with such hatred?

So these idiot cops who shot up THE WRONG CAR made a "simple mistake"? They shot first and were hoping to ask questions later! No excuse for that!

Let me tell you the reason why they probably shot first. If you read the guy's manifesto, he's going after LAPD cops themselves and looking to expose some dirty laundry. These cops were trying to protect their own when they shot that truck! More like "Ooops, simple mistake , tee hee...."
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 12:48 PM   #28
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I agree, but not in this situation. LA should bring in outside police or FBI. They are too close to the situation.



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Agreed. FBI, and BATF should be leading this, not the local LEOs. If anything, the LEOs, especially the LAPD, should be consulting on this, as they know how the guy would operate; he may not know completely how the FBI runs things..

What concerns me more than that is that with him being Navy and a combat vet, he'll have the military training to deal in this situation. He has those survival skills that may make this go on for a long period of time. He's thought about this (evidence being his manifesto), so there's no doubt that he has put some thought and preparation into this, especially in the perspective of how to either escape or draw this out as long as he possibly can.

In short, he's either going to go down fast in a blaze of glory, or he's going to draw this out for as long as possible.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 12:50 PM   #29
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Seriously... what happened to you to fill you with such hatred?
Probably has something to do with seeing these morons putting 30+ rounds into an unarmed woman's pickup truck.

Cops are corrupt thugs who don't think before they act and put themselves above the people they are supposed to "protect and serve".

They signed up for the job. They should be willing to risk their lives for the safety of others, not being trigger happy and shooting at unarmed innocent bystanders because they are scared for their own safety.

Too many cops are just cowards who hide behind their badges.

This isn't just a simple "mistake". They nearly killed these women for no reason because they didn't even verify who was in the truck before opening fire. If you're sanctioned to carry a deadly weapon, you CAN'T make this kind of "mistake". You need to be able to evaluate the situation and make the correct decision. Alas, too many cops are too damn stupid for that and the only thing their brain can process is pulling the trigger.

Reminds me of the cops who shot 9(?) people in the crossfire outside the Empire state building last(?) year.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 12:57 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Probably has something to do with seeing these morons putting 30+ rounds into an unarmed woman's pickup truck.

Cops are corrupt thugs who don't think before they act and put themselves above the people they are supposed to "protect and serve".

They signed up for the job. They should be willing to risk their lives for the safety of others, not being trigger happy and shooting at unarmed innocent bystanders because they are scared for their own safety.

Too many cops are just cowards who hide behind their badges.

This isn't just a simple "mistake". They nearly killed these women for no reason because they didn't even verify who was in the truck before opening fire. If you're sanctioned to carry a deadly weapon, you CAN'T make this kind of "mistake". You need to be able to evaluate the situation and make the correct decision. Alas, too many cops are too damn stupid for that and the only thing their brain can process is pulling the trigger.

Reminds me of the cops who shot 9(?) people in the crossfire outside the Empire state building last(?) year.
So, just to be clear, nothing ever happened to you personally, as the basis for this opinion of so many officers being stupid?
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:01 PM   #31
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So, just to be clear, nothing ever happened to you personally, as the basis for this opinion of so many officers being stupid?
This is irrelevant. I can have whatever opinion I want.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:02 PM   #32
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So, just to be clear, nothing ever happened to you personally, as the basis for this opinion of so many officers being stupid?
If the answer is "no", I call BS.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:04 PM   #33
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This is irrelevant. I can have whatever opinion I want.
So that means yes.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:05 PM   #34
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Agreed. FBI, and BATF should be leading this, not the local LEOs. If anything, the LEOs, especially the LAPD, should be consulting on this, as they know how the guy would operate; he may not know completely how the FBI runs things..

What concerns me more than that is that with him being Navy and a combat vet, he'll have the military training to deal in this situation. He has those survival skills that may make this go on for a long period of time. He's thought about this (evidence being his manifesto), so there's no doubt that he has put some thought and preparation into this, especially in the perspective of how to either escape or draw this out as long as he possibly can.

In short, he's either going to go down fast in a blaze of glory, or he's going to draw this out for as long as possible.

I read his manifesto. It's not your typical rambling of a lunatic. It's a well thought out,cohesive piece of writing.
This guy has definitely gone over the edge because he murdered 3 people. There is no excuse for murder. But he knows what he's doing.

Like I said before if they don't find him he's going to turn into a serial killer and he won't get within 100 ft. of LEA. If he does there will be bullets flying everywhere.

Putting 20 holes in a truck that had 2 little old ladies in it is inexcusable . They want to kill this guy one way or another.

He knows too much and the bad part is he is beginning to garner sympathy from the general public.

I just hope he hasn't planned this for a long time. He could have weapons and ammo stashed all around L.A.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:09 PM   #35
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So that means yes.
Nope, never been arrested or anything, so you're wrong.


I just have heard way too many stories of cops being scumbags, going on power trips, thinking they are above the law, etc. Most of them need to be knocked down a few pegs.

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Originally Posted by CalWizrd View Post
If the answer is "no", I call BS.
Yeah I'm sure you know my life story.

This topic isn't about me, don't know what the some posters infatuation is with attacking other posters instead of actually engaging in the topic being debated.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:10 PM   #36
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This is irrelevant. I can have whatever opinion I want.
Yes, you can have whatever opinion you want.

I was just curious if that opinion was based on actual life experience, or something else.

That's all.

Edit: so according to your previous post, the answer to my question is "something else."

Thanks.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:14 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by anonymouslurker View Post
Yes, you can have whatever opinion you want.

I was just curious if that opinion was based on actual life experience, or something else.

That's all.

Edit: so according to your previous post, the answer to my question is "something else."

Thanks.
I'd be happy for the cops to prove me wrong and actually do the "protecting and serving" job they are supposed to do.

But too many of them take the job for the wrong reasons. They don't want to protect and serve, they want that feeling of power over someone else. It's no coincidence that many of the jocks and bullies from high school are the ones who go on to become cops.

Don't get me wrong, of course there are some good cops out there, but it seems lately there is more bad than good. Could be the fact that the media reports the bad more too though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace View Post
Putting 20 holes in a truck that had 2 little old ladies in it is inexcusable . They want to kill this guy one way or another.
And they should. The guy's already killed 3 people and is clearly a wackjob. But isn't one of the first things in their training is that if you are going to shoot, you need to identify your target first?

This shooting of these two ladies is inexcusable. If you're that trigger happy, you shouldn't be a cop. You're not cut out for it.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:16 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
But too many of them take the job for the wrong reasons. They don't want to protect and serve, they want that feeling of power over someone else. It's no coincidence that many of the jocks and bullies from high school are the ones who go on to become cops.
Source?
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:16 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Nope, never been arrested or anything, so you're wrong.

I just have heard way too many stories of cops being scumbags, going on power trips, thinking they are above the law, etc. Most of them need to be knocked down a few pegs.

Yeah I'm sure you know my life story.

This topic isn't about me, don't know what the some posters infatuation is with attacking other posters instead of actually engaging in the topic being debated.
It's just really hard to understand when a poster makes such broad sweeping generalizations dripping with large quantities of vitriol and raw hatred. To hear that there are no personal experiences behind this, and are simply based upon some stories you've heard... Wow!
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:17 PM   #40
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Seriously... what happened to you to fill you with such hatred?
His filter is broken.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:17 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
I'd be happy for the cops to prove me wrong and actually do the "protecting and serving" job they are supposed to do.

But too many of them take the job for the wrong reasons. They don't want to protect and serve, they want that feeling of power over someone else. It's no coincidence that many of the jocks and bullies from high school are the ones who go on to become cops.

Don't get me wrong, of course there are some good cops out there, but it seems lately there is more bad than good. Could be the fact that the media reports the bad more too though.



And they should. The guy's already killed 3 people and is clearly a wackjob. But isn't one of the first things in their training is that if you are going to shoot, you need to identify your target first?

This shooting of these two ladies is inexcusable. If you're that trigger happy, you shouldn't be a cop. You're not cut out for it.

The news likes to report on the bad and never the good don't they?

Much like private gun owners...

I have had nothing but good experiences with LEOs

You are quick to let a bad instance form your entire opinion on a group. Quite unfortunate. Should be lucky I don't do the same when it comes to bad waitstaff and my tipping practices lol (as we all know your experience as a waiter on these forums)
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post



He knows too much and the bad part is he is beginning to garner sympathy from the general public.
He murdered someone's daughter to spite them. No on sane should sympathize with that.

If you are a cop, being shot at is a expected occupational hazard, but now innocent people are being targeted by both sides.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:31 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
The news likes to report on the bad and never the good don't they?

Much like private gun owners...

I have had nothing but good experiences with LEOs

You are quick to let a bad instance form your entire opinion on a group. Quite unfortunate. Should be lucky I don't do the same when it comes to bad waitstaff and my tipping practices lol (as we all know your experience as a waiter on these forums)
Maybe I'm too cynical, but this is the way our society is heading it seems.

Nobody cares about anyone else anymore. With social media now everything is guilty until proven innocent, and even then people still ask questions. Shoot first, ask questions later. etc etc.

I don't give people the benefit of the doubt anymore. And I don't like most people in general.

Funny you bring up serving and tipping. Getting screwed over by the public in that industry too many times is one of the very reasons I don't give the benefit of the doubt anymore. Glad I got out of that garbage last year.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:42 PM   #44
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I read his manifesto. It's not your typical rambling of a lunatic. It's a well thought out,cohesive piece of writing.
This guy has definitely gone over the edge because he murdered 3 people. There is no excuse for murder. But he knows what he's doing.

Like I said before if they don't find him he's going to turn into a serial killer and he won't get within 100 ft. of LEA. If he does there will be bullets flying everywhere.
Bold for emphasis. This is why I was saying that he knows too much outside of just the M.O. of the local LEOs, but when you bring in the military, he knows how they'll operate too. It boils down to "how do you outsmart someone who has the same type of training you do, and knows what move you'll make?"

This is definitely going to go on for a while, and that's what I fear.

Quote:
Putting 20 holes in a truck that had 2 little old ladies in it is inexcusable . They want to kill this guy one way or another.

He knows too much and the bad part is he is beginning to garner sympathy from the general public.
Too true. The LEAs involved in that are going to be making some major payouts. I wonder if it could cost some people their jobs..

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I just hope he hasn't planned this for a long time. He could have weapons and ammo stashed all around L.A.
Forget L.A. The guy owns a house here in Las Vegas. This has already become a multi-state, multi-jurisdictional issue. Local LEOs in SoCal are in over their heads on this one I wouldn't be surprised if he made preparations for something like this in both states.

BL.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 02:00 PM   #45
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Yes, you can have whatever opinion you want.

I was just curious if that opinion was based on actual life experience, or something else.

That's all.

Edit: so according to your previous post, the answer to my question is "something else."

Thanks.


If you want some real life experience, I can attest to that first hand.


-I've been pulled over by cops for "simply driving the wrong kind of car".

-Been stopped on the street and patted down for no reason.

-Been detained for standing in a private parking lot with a friend while having a friendly conversation by our cars after a restaurant's closing time; bozo cop went on to search our cars and ran our IDs and found nothing of course, by the way, the idiot cop drew his gun on us when we clearly had our hands out of our pockets and did not appear to be armed.


So yes, you can see why someone like me and those who hear my experiences like mine can be a little annoyed at government thugs with guns.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 02:05 PM   #46
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If you want some real life experience, I can attest to that first hand.


-I've been pulled over by cops for "simply driving the wrong kind of car".

-Been stopped on the street and patted down for no reason.

-Been detained for standing in a private parking lot with a friend while having a friendly conversation by our cars after a restaurant's closing time; bozo cop went on to search our cars and ran our IDs and found nothing of course, by the way, the idiot cop drew his gun on us when we clearly had our hands out of our pockets and did not appear to be armed.


So yes, you can see why someone like me and those who hear my experiences like mine can be a little annoyed at government thugs with guns.
I agree that it is unfortunate that you've had experiences like that.

However, even with you personally having gone through those experiences, I don't see you spewing the kind of hate for police officers on these forums, anywhere near as much as some others.

Kudos to you
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 02:13 PM   #47
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I agree that it is unfortunate that you've had experiences like that.

However, even with you personally having gone through those experiences, I don't see you spewing the kind of hate for police officers on these forums, anywhere near as much as some others.

Kudos to you


One more experience I forgot about....

I know a guy who is a cop and really thinks of himself as a "good guy with a gun". He once told me a story about when he was chasing a guy he thought was a suspect but was actually the victim. The victim was trying to tell him that he was the victim but he would have none of it. His gun was drawn and when he pinned the victim down, he pointed his gun to his head and nearly shot him. Talk about shooting first and asking questions later.

I don't just spew my dislike for cops on a forum but also in real life. Anyone who knows me knows that I have a huge problem with the [mis]conduct of police officers. Look, I know there are good cops out there but they are far and few compared to the idiots.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 02:15 PM   #48
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Not all cops are bad. My oldest brother was a cop for 20 years. He was a good cop. Patrol officer who went on numerous arrest warrants over the years. He didn't beat anybody up or pull his gun when it wasn't needed.

He went through three marriages because of this.

Constant stress because of fear of being shot by some nut yet he wasn't trigger happy.

Looking through the eyes of a cop is hard to do when you haven't been in those shoes.

It is still no excuse for being so paranoid that you shoot up a truck that was the wrong color and had 2 old ladies in it.

I find it very hard to believe those cops actually thought before shooting.

Oh yea. He was also ex-special forces with the 82nd. Airborne in Central America but he never talked about that time.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 02:22 PM   #49
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Not all cops are bad. My oldest brother was a cop for 20 years. He was a good cop. Patrol officer who went on numerous arrest warrants over the years. He didn't beat anybody up or pull his gun when it wasn't needed.

He went through three marriages because of this.

Constant stress because of fear of being shot by some nut yet he wasn't trigger happy.

Looking through the eyes of a cop is hard to do when you haven't been in those shoes.
Exactly.

Just like every single segment of the population, there is a wide range of ability/attitude/intelligence.

It just bothers me when people make such broad generalizations about any group of people, without any personal life experience, without being aware of the viewpoint of the group they're calling out, and without any knowledge of how many are really good/bad, just their own skewed opinion.

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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
It is still no excuse for being so paranoid that you shoot up a truck that was the wrong color and had 2 old ladies in it.

I find it very hard to believe those cops actually thought before shooting.
Wholeheartedly agree with you.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 03:04 PM   #50
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While I agree that what happened with police officers firing on innocent people is a terrible mistake, and they should absolutely be held accountable, all humans make mistakes. Not blowing it off or minimizing it at all, just saying that no one is infallible.

However, comments like the following always make me wonder what has happened to a person for them to use such huge generalizing statements to demonstrate such a tremendous disdain for a group of people who are generally good, and perform a dangerous job for the benefit of society.

Seriously... what happened to you to fill you with such hatred?
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Probably failed the IQ and Mental Stability test to get on the Police Force.
Or maybe he had negative interactions with police officers. I'm an educated, law-abiding citizen, and I personally think most cops are scumbags. From the time I was 16 and first got my license, I've been treated to their brand of power tripping over and over again. The good ones are far too few.

My cousin, who was 2 years older than me, got his license first. We always used to go to the movies, local arcade/batting cages, out to eat, and other teenage stuff. It is important to mention that my cousin is black, I'm mixed, and our friends were basically a multicultural party - Cambodian, Salvadoran, Ethiopian, and Brazilian. We were also probably the nerdiest high schoolers in history. None of us drank, smoked, or did any kinds of drugs whatsoever.

Without fail, we'd get pulled over at least once a month, and usually more. For no apparent reason, as no tickets were ever written (except once when he had a tail light out). Each and every time, without exception, we were treated like dirt, talked down to, subject to car searches, and just in general treated like criminals. And we never, ever gave an ounce of lip because we were (wrongly) taught to respect LEOs and also because no good can come of mouthing off to the police.

My favorite was the time we went to Castle Rock in Marblehead. We had a great time hiking, goofing off, shooting each other with Super Soakers, etc. Right at dusk, two police cruisers showed up and told us it was time to go home and that we "don't belong here." It was the summer and we were having fun, yet made to leave on the whims of meddling police officers.

I've seen cops arrest a 19-year-old outside of my youth center and bang his head against the ground repeatedly, causing him to bleed.

Or the time when I was 16, driving my first crapmobile, which was overheating. I was lost in the middle of Boston, scared, and on the verge of tears (obviously this was before GPS and such). So I did what we're all taught in elementary school. I pulled over and went up to a police officer to ask for help getting home. I didn't get one word out of my mouth before the officer started screaming at me that I needed to move my car, that it was a commercial parking space, etc. etc. I tried to say "I will move it, I just need quick directions" but never got a word out before he just kept screaming the same thing over and over.

I was terrified, and a freaking kid. I found my way home eventually, but that pretty much cemented the fact that cops were not out to help anyone but themselves.

Even when I've gotten a legitimate ticket, the attitude and demeanor of police officers leaves a lot to be desired.

So yes, many, many police officers act like power tripping *******s, and I honestly don't trust them. I've dealt with one super nice officer, who was fantastic and reasonable and kind - but he also asked for my number at the end, so who knows how he would have been to someone he wasn't interested in going out with. I'd like to think he was a good apple, but there are far too few in my experience.

Obviously Horner lost it, but I'd bet some of the things in his "manifesto" are true.

I want a stricter check and balance for LEOs with public oversight.
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