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Old Feb 8, 2013, 03:27 PM   #51
thekev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
Maybe we should take guns away from cops then?
Perhaps the threshold on what constitutes okay to pull out a gun needs to be re-examined. Why would anyone shoot at a truck that simply looks like it could belong to a suspect? I sincerely hope those cops end up in jail along with anyone who approved such aggressive tactics, as they fired a number of shots at unarmed people.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 10:28 PM   #52
Technarchy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMikeT View Post
100% agree.

And in Europe, NO ONE, cop and robber alike, have guns.
Is that right?



















If bad guys don't have guns, then the Euro police forces should not feel the need to own firearms. That's a lot of sub-machine guns for a society with no firearms.

Maybe they have them for this guy and people like him...Just maybe...



Shot and killed 77, and injured over 200...How could this happen in Europe where there are no guns? It's all doves and angels singing from the heavens...Right?
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 02:49 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekev View Post
Perhaps the threshold on what constitutes okay to pull out a gun needs to be re-examined. Why would anyone shoot at a truck that simply looks like it could belong to a suspect? I sincerely hope those cops end up in jail along with anyone who approved such aggressive tactics, as they fired a number of shots at unarmed people.
Surprised LAPD didn't find a gun or bag of heroin in the truck. Wink wink.

.
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 03:08 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
He murdered someone's daughter to spite them. No on sane should sympathize with that.

If you are a cop, being shot at is a expected occupational hazard, but now innocent people are being targeted by both sides.


I do think that some of the current problems start with this mind set. There is a very big difference between military action and good policing.

As stated Dorner is ex military and by your own description from one of your earlier posts.
This is a very dangerous man.

Navy Officer
Trained with NSW
Willing to kill the children of people he doesn't like.
Combat vet.
Ex LEO

To all the LEO out there, good luck. This is an ugly situation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Is that right?

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If bad guys don't have guns, then the Euro police forces should not feel the need to own firearms. That's a lot of sub-machine guns for a society with no firearms.

Maybe they have them for this guy and people like him...Just maybe...

Image

Shot and killed 77, and injured over 200...How could this happen in Europe where there are no guns? It's all doves and angels singing from the heavens...Right?
I will give you this, I saw it last night but was just to tired to post.

He also got wrong the fact that all countries of Europe, hand guns are NOT BANNED, except the UK.

I my self have three Ruger 101, Sig 226, Perazzi Skeet 12 guage.
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 03:18 AM   #55
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Another day, another shooting in the US.

How the LAPD ended up shooting all the wrong people is just unfathomable.

What is going on in that country?!
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 03:35 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiPi View Post
Another day, another shooting in the US.

How the LAPD ended up shooting all the wrong people is just unfathomable.

What is going on in that country?!
Why is another police related shooting even news any more, it's just another day in the USA?

It would be more news worthy if there was NO police related shooting!!!!!
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 04:04 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Is that right?

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

If bad guys don't have guns, then the Euro police forces should not feel the need to own firearms. That's a lot of sub-machine guns for a society with no firearms.

Maybe they have them for this guy and people like him...Just maybe...

Image

Shot and killed 77, and injured over 200...How could this happen in Europe where there are no guns? It's all doves and angels singing from the heavens...Right?
Just to put you right at least on the situation in England. Police do not carry guns on patrol that is the norm. There are specialist Armed response units which are called out for special occasions like armed seiges, terrorist take downs etc.

You will not see regular patrols either in cars or on foot with Guns.

I cannot speak for the rest of Europe.
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 04:15 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by nebo1ss View Post
Just to put you right at least on the situation in England. Police do not carry guns on patrol that is the norm. There are specialist Armed response units which are called out for special occasions like armed seiges, terrorist take downs etc.

You will not see regular patrols either in cars or on foot with Guns.

I cannot speak for the rest of Europe.
Actually thats incorrect for the England.

Every force has a patrol of firearms dedicated teams in vehicles working shifts patterns covering 24 hours a days.

In the Met (london) for example they are called Trojan units and generally there are 20+ vehicles spread around london at any one time.

Surrey has 3 - 5 cars at anyone time.

They drive around on patrol and will deal with things in front of them but will only respond to high priority calls, such as officer needs assistance unless its firearms which is number 1 for them.

You're welcome
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 04:22 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMikeT View Post
If you want some real life experience, I can attest to that first hand.


-I've been pulled over by cops for "simply driving the wrong kind of car".

-Been stopped on the street and patted down for no reason.

-Been detained for standing in a private parking lot with a friend while having a friendly conversation by our cars after a restaurant's closing time; bozo cop went on to search our cars and ran our IDs and found nothing of course, by the way, the idiot cop drew his gun on us when we clearly had our hands out of our pockets and did not appear to be armed.


So yes, you can see why someone like me and those who hear my experiences like mine can be a little annoyed at government thugs with guns.

It is often the case that these types of stops are for "DWB" Driving while Black. Unfortunate, but seems to be part of the system.
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 12:29 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiPi View Post
Actually thats incorrect for the England.

Every force has a patrol of firearms dedicated teams in vehicles working shifts patterns covering 24 hours a days.

In the Met (london) for example they are called Trojan units and generally there are 20+ vehicles spread around london at any one time.

Surrey has 3 - 5 cars at anyone time.

They drive around on patrol and will deal with things in front of them but will only respond to high priority calls, such as officer needs assistance unless its firearms which is number 1 for them.

You're welcome
I don't see that we are saying anything different. I called them Specialist Arms teams you called them firearms dedicated teams. I called the police out last week for bicycle theft. I did not expect the two officers who responded to be armed and they were not.
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 02:18 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace View Post
I read his manifesto. It's not your typical rambling of a lunatic. It's a well thought out,cohesive piece of writing.
This guy has definitely gone over the edge because he murdered 3 people. There is no excuse for murder. But he knows what he's doing.
I first thought it would be a very negative angry manifesto but I was wrong, it well nicely written and I find the best way for him to be heard now (Just like he wanted in the manifesto) is to surrender and stay alive.
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 02:30 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by aerok View Post
I first thought it would be a very negative angry manifesto but I was wrong, it well nicely written and I find the best way for him to be heard now (Just like he wanted in the manifesto) is to surrender and stay alive.
Not rambling? Did you read the whole thing?
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 02:46 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
Not rambling? Did you read the whole thing?
Yes I read the whole thing and no I did not say there was no rambling. There is rambling but if you read until the end, he discusses various social issues that needs addressing in the USA.

Did you read the whole thing?
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 09:51 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMikeT View Post
If you want some real life experience, I can attest to that first hand.


-I've been pulled over by cops for "simply driving the wrong kind of car".

-Been stopped on the street and patted down for no reason.

-Been detained for standing in a private parking lot with a friend while having a friendly conversation by our cars after a restaurant's closing time; bozo cop went on to search our cars and ran our IDs and found nothing of course, by the way, the idiot cop drew his gun on us when we clearly had our hands out of our pockets and did not appear to be armed.


So yes, you can see why someone like me and those who hear my experiences like mine can be a little annoyed at government thugs with guns.
It's not just about these types of specific incidents. Cops in general seem to talk down to the citizens who pay their salaries and absurd benefits. Often times even in casual settings like in a line at a store, they speak to you as if you've already committed a crime. Not all are like this of course, but it's irritating. I noticed that most of the young cops in my area were the douche bags in high school. When that bullet proof vest is put on, they grow six feet.
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 10:33 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
It's not just about these types of specific incidents. Cops in general seem to talk down to the citizens who pay their salaries and absurd benefits. Often times even in casual settings like in a line at a store, they speak to you as if you've already committed a crime. Not all are like this of course, but it's irritating. I noticed that most of the young cops in my area were the douche bags in high school. When that bullet proof vest is put on, they grow six feet.
This is a political problem.

Cops are not subject to the same laws as you and I. If they were, that haughty jackboot attitude many, not all, exude would vanish fast.

The politicians however have created a system where cops are used as enforces, rather than protectors and defenders.

Want an example? You shoot up a car for no reason and your ass is going to jail, no questions asked. Cop shoots up a car, and injures people and its nothing more than "oops". Ask the ladies in that truck if they like their tax dollars are well spent.

Also, why is it California has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, but has a full militarized police force? No one cops tend to be jerks. They are literally above the law.









Edit:

These freaking cops have lost their mind. They are going to end up killing some poor civilian because they twitched wrong. You better have a damn good reason for drawing that weapon, because once it's out, things get real fast.





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Old Feb 10, 2013, 02:28 AM   #66
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This guy still hasnt been caught!

It makes the lapd look incompetent.

All they can actually do is shoot innocent people.

Perhaps they should get outside help?
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 04:53 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by aerok View Post
Yes I read the whole thing and no I did not say there was no rambling. There is rambling but if you read until the end, he discusses various social issues that needs addressing in the USA.

Did you read the whole thing?
Yup....It actually started out fairly focused, than it ended up going all over the place.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiPi View Post
This guy still hasnt been caught!

It makes the lapd look incompetent.
Or it exposes LAPD for what they are.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:31 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by SiPi View Post
This guy still hasnt been caught!

It makes the lapd look incompetent.
I'm no fanboy of the LAPD, but i wouldn't call them incompetent just because they haven't found him yet.

I think your expectations are a bit unrealistic.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:36 AM   #69
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Cops are less regulated and controlled than our military is/was in Afghanistan.

soldiers get discharged/go to jail if they just shoot up some random truck before getting positive identification.

cops do it and...?
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 10:21 AM   #70
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Wasn't he fired for making false statements?? Wonder how many others out there that make false statements still hold their jobs. While there may be quite a few good police officers out in the force there is definitely a bunch of bad ones working for the government as well.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 12:54 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
Cops are less regulated and controlled than our military is/was in Afghanistan.

soldiers get discharged/go to jail if they just shoot up some random truck before getting positive identification.

cops do it and...?
That's no exaggeration.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 01:00 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by bradl View Post
Agreed. FBI, and BATF should be leading this, not the local LEOs.
Leading what? The two incidents were not calls about Dorner, they were just LAPD officers out on patrol. So you want to pull all 10,000 LAPD officers off the streets and replace them with FBI and BATF agents?

If there is a Dorner-specific call, you (might) have time to call in other agencies, but that was not the case in either shooting incident yesterday.

With respect to the Dorner-specific search in Big Bear, that is being led by the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post

Or it exposes LAPD for what they are.
You mean: it exposes the LAPD as the agency that is not taking the lead looking for him?
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:07 PM   #73
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I ask everyone this,

What % of police are:

Do their best to protect citizens?
Use the position as excuse to exert authority, ie Bully?
Just a well paying job with great benefits (IOW, minimum work)?
-or- (contributed below)
Largely ignorant about their true motivations and living a life of largely based on habit and social convention?
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:13 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
I ask everyone this,

What % of police are:

Do their best to protect citizens?
Use the position as excuse to exert authority, ie Bully?
Just a well paying job with great benefits (IOW, minimum work)?
You forgot one ...

Largely ignorant about their true motivations and living a life largely based on habit and social convention.

I'd say most.

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Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:29 PM   #75
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This is irrelevant. I can have whatever opinion I want.
That ranks up there on a list of stupid opinions to have. Most people at least have some sort of irrational justification for opinions even if it is just to retcon them.
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