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Old Feb 11, 2013, 09:12 PM   #101
Sydde
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I actually rented a copy of Rambo: First Blood because that was the first thing that came to mind when I heard of this. There, I noticed that Rambo didn't shoot to kill - any deaths were accidental. So yeah, there's definitely a difference if you look into it.
John Rambo found himself in a town like Sedro Wooley, where you pretty much have to be related to someone who lives there or stay in your car, when the local constable decided to harass him for not being related to someone who lives there. Pretty drastically different situation from going police-stal.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:28 PM   #102
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The LAPD has announced that it will reopen the Dorner investigation that led to his dismissal.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:57 PM   #103
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The LAPD has announced that it will reopen the Dorner investigation that led to his dismissal.


In my opinion, this is one or both of the following:


1) Strategic move to bait Dorner out in the open in the hopes he'll turn himself in and/or slip up and contact anyone about this to pinpoint his location.

2) PR on behalf of the LAPD to alleviate the blowback the department is receiving from the public because of the dirt coming out of all this.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 05:03 AM   #104
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In my opinion, this is one or both of the following:


1) Strategic move to bait Dorner out in the open in the hopes he'll turn himself in and/or slip up and contact anyone about this to pinpoint his location.

2) PR on behalf of the LAPD to alleviate the blowback the department is receiving from the public because of the dirt coming out of all this.
This makes sense.

In the end what most will remember is that Dorner was just another forgettable serial killer and the villain in all this became the LAPD. Dorner will eventually be caught or killed, and forgotten but anything bad on the police department will just add to the already unrepairable Rodney King incident.

That police department has always been under a microscope and the press has been unrelenting. It's no wonder that this has made Dorner some sort of folk hero in the eyes of many. At the end of the day he's an unstable serial killer but his legacy won't reflect that as the whole truth but as somebody who fought against a corrupt department but somehow snapped. His intentions will be deemed honorable but his methods just too over the top.

WACO was really nothing more than a criminal entity illegally killing and attacking federal agents/cops bringing in a confrontation but many saw them as simply legally defending themselves. Somehow any abuses by leader David Koresh are forgiven but the blame is put on the US government. Had the government went in against an innocent elementary school it would be one thing but people seem to forget what Koresh was all about. The same type of whitewashing that protects the cult he led will try and protect Dorner.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 07:17 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by iMikeT View Post
In my opinion, this is one or both of the following:


1) Strategic move to bait Dorner out in the open in the hopes he'll turn himself in and/or slip up and contact anyone about this to pinpoint his location.

2) PR on behalf of the LAPD to alleviate the blowback the department is receiving from the public because of the dirt coming out of all this.
Option #2 is the more likely scenario. Since the prosecutors office announced they would seek the death penalty due to "special circumstances", it is highly unlikely to result in Dorner turning himself in voluntarily.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 12:44 PM   #106
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This makes sense.

In the end what most will remember is that Dorner was just another forgettable serial killer and the villain in all this became the LAPD. Dorner will eventually be caught or killed, and forgotten but anything bad on the police department will just add to the already unrepairable Rodney King incident.

That police department has always been under a microscope and the press has been unrelenting. It's no wonder that this has made Dorner some sort of folk hero in the eyes of many. At the end of the day he's an unstable serial killer but his legacy won't reflect that as the whole truth but as somebody who fought against a corrupt department but somehow snapped. His intentions will be deemed honorable but his methods just too over the top.

WACO was really nothing more than a criminal entity illegally killing and attacking federal agents/cops bringing in a confrontation but many saw them as simply legally defending themselves. Somehow any abuses by leader David Koresh are forgiven but the blame is put on the US government. Had the government went in against an innocent elementary school it would be one thing but people seem to forget what Koresh was all about. The same type of whitewashing that protects the cult he led will try and protect Dorner.


I agree with the first part of your post but I disagree with the police department being "under the microscope of the press". The reason why I have to disagree is the fact that the mainstream media has not been doing its job in the last couple of decades of actually being the fourth estate and has instead become infotainment rather than reporting the facts.

If anything, I think the mainstream media is only taking what the police department feeds them about Dorner and dramatizing the manhunt aspect of this case. What's been forgotten are the people who have been hurt along the way. For example, the two women and the man who's cars were shot up because "it looked like Dorner's" and the victims of the atrocities of the police both in general and according to what Dorner had in his manifesto.

I'm in no way defending Dorner's actions because he is indeed mentally ill and needs to answer for his crimes. However, the reason why he snapped is something that we should all be thinking hard about. That is, the police force that we have in this country is no longer here to protect and serve the very people that pay them to do so but to do the will of the powers that be and protect themselves while they're at it.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 12:49 PM   #107
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I agree with the first part of your post but I disagree with the police department being "under the microscope of the press". The reason why I have to disagree is the fact that the mainstream media has not been doing its job in the last couple of decades of actually being the fourth estate and has instead become infotainment rather than reporting the facts.

If anything, I think the mainstream media is only taking what the police department feeds them about Dorner and dramatizing the manhunt aspect of this case. What's been forgotten are the people who have been hurt along the way. For example, the two women and the man who's cars were shot up because "it looked like Dorner's" and the victims of the atrocities of the police both in general and according to what Dorner had in his manifesto.

I'm in no way defending Dorner's actions because he is indeed mentally ill and needs to answer for his crimes. However, the reason why he snapped is something that we should all be thinking hard about. That is, the police force that we have in this country is no longer here to protect and serve the very people that pay them to do so but to do the will of the powers that be and protect themselves while they're at it.
I may have overstated it. But here in California, the LAPD has an awful reputation and I am not sure how much traction the Rodney King thing got outside of the state.

The press may not have been doing their job overall when it comes to uncovering police brutality and corruption.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 01:07 PM   #108
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I may have overstated it. But here in California, the LAPD has an awful reputation and I am not sure how much traction the Rodney King thing got outside of the state.

The press may not have been doing their job overall when it comes to uncovering police brutality and corruption.


That's more like it. Thanks for restating it.

The LAPD definitely has a terrible reputation, at least among the people it's supposed to serve. I think that the LAPD is worse in some areas of LA compared to others. I can write books about the things I've personally seen officers of the department do in public.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 01:12 PM   #109
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I'm in no way defending Dorner's actions because he is indeed mentally ill and needs to answer for his crimes.
Ok, so which is it? Is he mentally ill or should he answer for his crimes? Pick one. That is how the system works.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 02:14 PM   #110
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I may have overstated it. But here in California, the LAPD has an awful reputation and I am not sure how much traction the Rodney King thing got outside of the state.
I was completing my junior year in high school in Omaha when the Rodney King incident happened. Believe me, that incident gained some serious traction outside California (all the way down to my high school). It wasn't good, and gave a lot more relevance to NWA, Public Enemy, and the Sex Pistols. It was doubly so for police back then, because they were seen as 'the man', and if you were Black and a LEO, you could have been seen as a 'traitor' (lack of better word).

With that, Reginald Denny, the riots, and O.J., the LAPD (well, LEOs in the LA area in general) don't have much of a good reputation.

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The press may not have been doing their job overall when it comes to uncovering police brutality and corruption.
With how today's media is, the press isn't doing a good job period. Local news is doing the best they can, but when it hits mainstream media, it gets oversensationalized, and that's what makes it crap.

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Old Feb 12, 2013, 02:20 PM   #111
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Ok, so which is it? Is he mentally ill or should he answer for his crimes? Pick one. That is how the system works.


What I meant is that he's a mentally unstable person that needs to be held accountable for the murders he has committed. And the LAPD looking to kill him to shut him up is not the answer.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 02:32 PM   #112
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What I meant is that he's a mentally unstable person that needs to be held accountable for the murders he has committed. And the LAPD looking to kill him to shut him up is not the answer.
I'll agree there. and a lot of extreme pro-gun advocates need to realize this.

Just shooting and killing him to resolve the situation doesn't answer the questions of WHY he is doing what he is doing. As I mentioned before, he's killed a cop. That, under CA law and its special circumstances, is going to warrant the death penalty, regardless of what LAPD does.

Furthermore, Dorner knows this. He knows he is going to die. His main advantage now outside of the fact that he's come to terms with his death (which makes him even more dangerous), is either in how many people he could take out with him when he goes, and that if he goes, investigators will never know why he's done what he's done, except from 3rd party sources. They'll never know from the source as to WHY he's doing what he's doing. I think that would be more valuable to know than immediately blowing him away.

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Old Feb 12, 2013, 02:46 PM   #113
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I'll agree there. and a lot of extreme pro-gun advocates need to realize this.
Realize what?

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Just shooting and killing him to resolve the situation doesn't answer the questions of WHY he is doing what he is doing. As I mentioned before, he's killed a cop. That, under CA law and its special circumstances, is going to warrant the death penalty, regardless of what LAPD does.

Furthermore, Dorner knows this. He knows he is going to die. His main advantage now outside of the fact that he's come to terms with his death (which makes him even more dangerous), is either in how many people he could take out with him when he goes, and that if he goes, investigators will never know why he's done what he's done, except from 3rd party sources. They'll never know from the source as to WHY he's doing what he's doing. I think that would be more valuable to know than immediately blowing him away.

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Agreed. However, if he is found alive, I doubt that he will make it easy for any LEO that finds him. Which could lead to his death.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 02:57 PM   #114
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Realize what?
You quoted what I said they should realize. Again:

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Originally Posted by bradl
Just shooting and killing him to resolve the situation doesn't answer the questions of WHY he is doing what he is doing.
Just blowing the guy away isn't going to help things when the next guy does this, or the next one after that. But when you can find/figure out their WHY, that opens the doors for what we can do to help prevent it from happening again, and help them out in the process. Win/Win for everyone.

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Agreed. However, if he is found alive, I doubt that he will make it easy for any LEO that finds him. Which could lead to his death.
True that. Very nasty game of chess here. Very nasty, indeed.

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Old Feb 12, 2013, 03:29 PM   #115
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KTLA is reporting he is in a shootout with law enforcement, two officers down.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 03:33 PM   #116
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KTLA is reporting he is in a shootout with law enforcement, two officers down.
Developing as we type.

If this guy survives it will surprise the heck out of me.

Also as I suspected he has an accomplice that helped him.

"Meanwhile, an associate of Dorner was being tracked by investigators, according to court records that suggest Dorner may have received help as he eluded a massive law enforcement dragnet."
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 03:38 PM   #117
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Developing as we type.

If this guy survives it will surprise the heck out of me.

Also as I suspected he has an accomplice that helped him.

"Meanwhile, an associate of Dorner was being tracked by investigators, according to court records that suggest Dorner may have received help as he eluded a massive law enforcement dragnet."
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?feedId=13038

Live scanner feed of San Bernardino County.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 03:41 PM   #118
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http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?feedId=13038

Live scanner feed of San Bernardino County.
Live video here :

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...190902721.html

For a Jason Bourne type he sure screwed up at Big Bear. He's running scared.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 03:50 PM   #119
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I really need to read more about this..
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:06 PM   #120
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If you can't get to it on any of the links posted, grab the 5-0 radio app from the App store. it has the major frequencies in a live feed, real time.

EDIT: Ch. 5 in Los Angeles just gave away all of the officer's location on TV, based on their location.

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Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:08 PM   #121
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Reality TV. What a concept.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:13 PM   #122
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If you can't get to it on any of the links posted, grab the 5-0 radio app from the App store. it has the major frequencies in a live feed, real time.

EDIT: Ch. 5 in Los Angeles just gave away all of the officer's location on TV, based on their location.

BL.
Yeah, they keep zooming in on any officer on the ground.

----------

They will be cutting the feeds soon, as requested by law enforcement.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:16 PM   #123
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Yeah, they keep zooming in on any officer on the ground.

----------

They will be cutting the feeds soon, as requested by law enforcement.

they just busted the TFR, and broadcasted the SWAT team's positions. Got to love KTLA.

In fact, they all just cut their feeds. NBC4 and KTLA are out.

That's why I'm back on the scanner feed.

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Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:29 PM   #124
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FAA has ordered the space around Big Bear closed to all but LEA.

Supposedly there's a shootout occurring as we type.

I saw at least 3 snipers.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:50 PM   #125
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