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Old Feb 10, 2013, 01:24 PM   #1
cryingrobot
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Mac Pro or Console

After waiting and waiting for a new Mac Pro, it occurs to me now that a Mac Mini will do the job nicely except for gaming which it will never do well. Further there are some new options now. The consoles are going to be adding real OS to their systems. PS3 already runs Linux out of the box. Xbox is rumored to be coming out with a Windows 8 system. This pretty much renders the PC/Console debate moot and throws the macs out in the cold. Even as a long time Mac user, if I have a chance to play the new games, run my console as a media server, download content, run all my W8 apps like Office, I am dumping my crippled mac with its 3yr old GPU. You can even get the best of both worlds on Linux by running W8 in a virtual machine so that you can use a few things MS makes well like Office and not be stuck with the rest of the crap.

IMO, Apple has no choice here but to sacrifice its Mini line and start selling OSX bundled in the likes of Nintendo. If I could buy a nintendo box that ran OSX server I would do it in a minute. I have no faith that Cook or anyone at Apple can see this coming so we wont have this and I might finally be getting that Xbox...Whatever GTA V ports to.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 01:35 PM   #2
Dor Levy
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You clearly don't need a Mac Pro and don't understand Apple's goals.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 01:39 PM   #3
Wardenski
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I don't understand what point is being made here .

Gaming in OSX IMO is a world of ******** regardless of what machine is being used.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 01:44 PM   #4
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My butt is quite happy thank you. There are some good big games that run perfectly under OSX.

I do agree that Bootcamp with Win7-64 gives us a lot more choice and this also means that our existing Apple hardware can still be used.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 01:50 PM   #5
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You'd have to be either awash in cash or a bithering idiot to by a Mac Pro just for gaming.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 02:40 PM   #6
paulrbeers
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Originally Posted by cryingrobot View Post
After waiting and waiting for a new Mac Pro, it occurs to me now that a Mac Mini will do the job nicely except for gaming which it will never do well. Further there are some new options now. The consoles are going to be adding real OS to their systems. PS3 already runs Linux out of the box. Xbox is rumored to be coming out with a Windows 8 system. This pretty much renders the PC/Console debate moot and throws the macs out in the cold. Even as a long time Mac user, if I have a chance to play the new games, run my console as a media server, download content, run all my W8 apps like Office, I am dumping my crippled mac with its 3yr old GPU. You can even get the best of both worlds on Linux by running W8 in a virtual machine so that you can use a few things MS makes well like Office and not be stuck with the rest of the crap.

IMO, Apple has no choice here but to sacrifice its Mini line and start selling OSX bundled in the likes of Nintendo. If I could buy a nintendo box that ran OSX server I would do it in a minute. I have no faith that Cook or anyone at Apple can see this coming so we wont have this and I might finally be getting that Xbox...Whatever GTA V ports to.
You are going to need to provide links to the whole ps3 running Linux because that was killed off a long time ago. Further until we see an Xbox actually running windows this is pure speculation. My guess is it will run something like windows 8 RT so it uses the tiles/metro but it most likely won't just run any PC software. This whole thread smells of Troll. No one buys a Mac Pro for gaming. They buy iMacs.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 03:21 PM   #7
Jake0604
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Originally Posted by cryingrobot View Post
After waiting and waiting for a new Mac Pro, it occurs to me now that a Mac Mini will do the job nicely except for gaming which it will never do well. Further there are some new options now. The consoles are going to be adding real OS to their systems. PS3 already runs Linux out of the box. Xbox is rumored to be coming out with a Windows 8 system. This pretty much renders the PC/Console debate moot and throws the macs out in the cold. Even as a long time Mac user, if I have a chance to play the new games, run my console as a media server, download content, run all my W8 apps like Office, I am dumping my crippled mac with its 3yr old GPU. You can even get the best of both worlds on Linux by running W8 in a virtual machine so that you can use a few things MS makes well like Office and not be stuck with the rest of the crap.

IMO, Apple has no choice here but to sacrifice its Mini line and start selling OSX bundled in the likes of Nintendo. If I could buy a nintendo box that ran OSX server I would do it in a minute. I have no faith that Cook or anyone at Apple can see this coming so we wont have this and I might finally be getting that Xbox...Whatever GTA V ports to.
Only a idiot would buy a Mac Pro for gaming.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 08:19 PM   #8
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I second that!

Mac Pros are workstation computers and I can also add server based machines as well(if running os x server or xsan). While yes under Windows 7 or 8 they will allow extreme gaming capabilities, these machines were not really designed to be gaming machines or come even close to the performance of hard-core gaming PCs.

While OS X lacks crossfire support, under bootcamp this can be done, but really.. I'd prefer an xbox or playstation over using my mac pro for gaming only. Clearly a waste of money if only used for gaming.


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Only a idiot would buy a Mac Pro for gaming.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:03 PM   #9
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I'd never want to use a console for anything but playing games–and I don't even use my consoles for that anymore! The idea that the Xbox or PS3 can replace a genuine computer is, for the nonce, laughable. Get back to us when they have more than 512MB of RAM and a non-gaming-focused OS (as stated, the PS3's ability to run Linux has been crippled. So no, that doesn't count).
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:21 PM   #10
brentsg
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Wow, not sure what to make of that post..

Btw, it's the likes of Sony and Nintendo that are losing their shirts right now.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 09:35 PM   #11
throAU
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Buy a mini and build a cheap gaming PC.

Pocket the savings over a mac pro and buy a console and a few nights out.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 11:18 PM   #12
sarthak
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BootCamp works well!

Last edited by sarthak; Feb 11, 2013 at 05:31 PM.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:34 AM   #13
cryingrobot
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Yes I admit gaming sucks on all Mac platforms but its a major piece companies are moving towards. I want to play new games and no Mac will let me do this because of lack of support or distribution. I think ms has a big big ace up his sleeve if he puts out a windows driven x box.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:08 AM   #14
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Install Windows on your Mac. You're done. All the support you need right there.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:21 AM   #15
derbothaus
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Install Windows on your Mac. You're done. All the support you need right there.
Pretty much this. I have had a great experience on my Pro with 5870. Even today's games. I keep my res at 1920x1080 on 23" IPS. I didn't buy my Mac Pro for gaming but it is nice it can pull it off quite effectively without needing a dedicated PC. It saves space by being able to do both. PC games have been GPU bound only for years now. So that is the only real concern. Thanks to the new Nvidia drivers this is not a real problem. GTX 670 is pretty darn good even without SLI. With the sheer amount of console ports dropping PC gaming no longer really needs dual cards and BIOS overclocking to get things done. Even Crysis is port hobbled.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:45 AM   #16
minifridge1138
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PS3 does not run linux anymore. Sony removed that feature to stop hackers. You're only chance to run linux on a PS3 is to buy an older model that hasn't been patched.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 02:07 AM   #17
Omnius
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I have a 5,2 mac mini. I only do some light gaming. I find it to be very up to the task. I don't play ridiculous 3d seizure inducing shooter games.

If you play casual games like starcraft or warcraft, you'll find the mini is fine. The mac pro wouldn't even make sense to use. If you want to be a "gamer" go build a pc for a few hundred bucks and go nuts.

I can't imagine wanting nintendo or any other console on my macs.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 10:45 AM   #18
mslide
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Buy a Mac Pro for gaming? What a waste of money.

For the price of the cheapest (new) Mac Pro, you could buy a Mac Mini, build a really good gaming PC and still have money left over for an iPad or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cryingrobot View Post
IMO, Apple has no choice here but to sacrifice its Mini line and start selling OSX bundled in the likes of Nintendo.
Huh? The mini wasn't designed to be a gaming platform. In case it's not already obvious to you, Apple doesn't care about the computer gaming market. It's too much of a niche for them to give a crap. To the great majority of their customer base, gaming means playing Angry Birds on their iPhones.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:47 AM   #19
deconstruct60
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. The consoles are going to be adding real OS to their systems.
consoles always had real OS on their systems (if MS DOS or Windows 1.0 qualifies as an OS then theirs certainly do). You are trying to misdirect into there being more "general usage" OS. The new consoles aren't going to have 'general usage' OS on them by default. They will be more hackable for folks with x86 expertise as it looks like they are all going to shift over to customized x86 designs that aren't that much different.


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IMO, Apple has no choice here but to sacrifice its Mini line and start selling OSX bundled in the likes of Nintendo.
OS X has always been bundled with Macs. You can't buy a Mac without OS X. You can't use a OS X license on a non-Mac. They are bundled. Apple doesn't view their hardware and OS X as decoupled entities.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:53 AM   #20
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Buy a Mac Pro for gaming? What a waste of money.

For the price of the cheapest (new) Mac Pro, you could buy a Mac Mini, build a really good gaming PC and still have money left over for an iPad or something.



Huh? The mini wasn't designed to be a gaming platform. In case it's not already obvious to you, Apple doesn't care about the computer gaming market. It's too much of a niche for them to give a crap. To the great majority of their customer base, gaming means playing Angry Birds on their iPhones.
With 10 or so billion in revenue it not really niche. Apple likes it's steady state one a year product roll outs, thats not really tenable in gaming. OSX would have to have to support DirectX or do a really great job of convincing dev's to port which isn't going to happen. They'd need to get down in the weeds and talk specs, not gonna happen. They'd need to write drives or invite partners (community) really not gonna happen. Gaming contradicts everything Apple stands for.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 02:54 PM   #21
goMac
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PS3 already runs Linux out of the box.
It does not. Sony removed this.

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Originally Posted by cryingrobot View Post
Xbox is rumored to be coming out with a Windows 8 system.
Not likely.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 05:26 PM   #22
deconstruct60
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They'd need to write drives or invite partners (community) really not gonna happen. Gaming contradicts everything Apple stands for.
Contradicts is offbase. Apple isn't either going to go out of their way to enhance or prohibit gaming. Isn't is a special case. Or a market to chase after to the exclusion of others.

The iOS game market is is huge and Apple didn't particular try to go after or inhibit it at all (past any 3rd party non-webkit apps being available at all ).
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 01:22 AM   #23
GermanyChris
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Contradicts is offbase. Apple isn't either going to go out of their way to enhance or prohibit gaming. Isn't is a special case. Or a market to chase after to the exclusion of others.

The iOS game market is is huge and Apple didn't particular try to go after or inhibit it at all (past any 3rd party non-webkit apps being available at all ).
Apple didn't need to support 20 different graphics cards or combos for that. Apple isn't going to let other people in their pretty little garden to write good drivers either.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 12:59 PM   #24
deconstruct60
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Apple didn't need to support 20 different graphics cards or combos for that.
Don't need it for the Mac context either. 20 different graphics cards doesn't make for better game software. Better meaning quality over quantity.



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Apple isn't going to let other people in their pretty little garden to write good drivers either.
Like developer docs for drivers?

https://developer.apple.com/library/...rs/_index.html

or Kernel and USB debug kits ?

https://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/

or access to OpenGL ?

https://developer.apple.com/graphics.../capabilities/


In graphics, the quirk is that Apple has a set of core libraries written on top and they do OpenGL. If the low level driver doesn't interface with those well then it won't get checked off as being supported. There is little here limiting folks from participating here. It is as much lack of participation from non-Apple entities as it is Apple itself.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 01:08 PM   #25
GermanyChris
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Don't need it for the Mac context either. 20 different graphics cards doesn't make for better game software. Better meaning quality over quantity.





Like developer docs for drivers?

https://developer.apple.com/library/...rs/_index.html

or Kernel and USB debug kits ?

https://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/

or access to OpenGL ?

https://developer.apple.com/graphics.../capabilities/


In graphics, the quirk is that Apple has a set of core libraries written on top and they do OpenGL. If the low level driver doesn't interface with those well then it won't get checked off as being supported. There is little here limiting folks from participating here. It is as much lack of participation from non-Apple entities as it is Apple itself.

Who cares about gaming software? Dev's either will or won't take care of that for Apple. Apple will need to support more cards than they do now and they will need to support the cards in combination. While writing better drivers or allowing nVidia or ATI to none of which will happen it's about as anti apple as you can get..

Can you imagine the support calls..yea my mac pro is doing such and such, well I have a quad with 3 690's in tri-SLI etc.
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