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Old Feb 12, 2013, 01:07 PM   #26
Moonjumper
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Originally Posted by mfr1340 View Post
Boy you must be old to bring up the 1.44MB floppy disks. The games that were on the disks were poor quality graphics and very small and limited.
I must be really old! I started playing computer games loaded from audio cassettes, then 5.25" floppies, then 720 KB 3.5", before finally getting 1.44 MB 3.5".

Games have changed, but they have always been great.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:05 PM   #27
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Regardless of how great and improved GPU/CPU and AirPlay to a big tv becomes. Without a physical controller. It's a flop. I tied playing FIFA13 on my iPad using my iPhone as a controller and it lated about 5mins. Not a good experience
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:22 PM   #28
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Me too! The audio cassettes were such a pain...
I still feel like I'm 17 though

Eventually the consoles will be gone, maybe this next generation will be their last. Everything will just be an included smart TV feature soon with only cloud games.

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Originally Posted by Moonjumper View Post
I must be really old! I started playing computer games loaded from audio cassettes, then 5.25" floppies, then 720 KB 3.5", before finally getting 1.44 MB 3.5".

Games have changed, but they have always been great.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 06:08 PM   #29
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Regardless of how great and improved GPU/CPU and AirPlay to a big tv becomes. Without a physical controller. It's a flop. I tied playing FIFA13 on my iPad using my iPhone as a controller and it lated about 5mins. Not a good experience
I think games are great if designed for the touch screen. But not all genres are suitable for that. And that includes many console style games.

A controller will need to be designed by Apple, or have Apple API's and related standards that any controller manufacturer can use, to get any success. A Bluetooth controller that can be used across iOS and OS X would be fantastic, and a big boon to the Mac App Store as console games would be well suited to conversion.

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Eventually the consoles will be gone, maybe this next generation will be their last. Everything will just be an included smart TV feature soon with only cloud games.
My PS3 is used more for Blu-Rays than gaming. I think the consoles are a bridgehead for those companies to invade the living room. Consoles are likely to survive, but the gaming will become one aspect of an entertainment device. The Apple TV also stands a chance in this area, but coming from a different direction, that of media device opened up to iOS apps.

Nuon, the gaming chip for DVD players, failed many years ago. It might have had the right idea, but did it too soon and not well enough.

Last edited by Moonjumper; Feb 12, 2013 at 06:15 PM.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 06:59 PM   #30
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There's a more important question to ask, that the OP more or less springs to mind.

And this is a serious question for both investors and designers:

Is console gaming going to survive the surge of mobile entertainment?

I wanted a PS3 to replace the one I sold. Instead, I got an iPad 4 Retina and a 24" monitor to hook up to it when I want to show off what I'm playing or watch Netflix with a girl.

A PS3 isn't just a gaming device, it's a digital entertainment device that has enriched console gaming built into it.

However, more and more console gamers are "growing out" of their Playstations but not gaming in general. They opt for iPhones, iPod Touch's, iPad's or even Android devices.

Before you say, "Console gaming isn't dying you idiot. Look at Call of Duty sales numbers". You need to understand that for the last four years, console gaming sales have taken a nose dive PLUNGE. And no it's not the economy, because movie sales, cable TV subscriptions and even freaking MUSIC purchases have stayed strong despite the bad economy. The truth is, a lot of people prefer free games or games that cost $5 or $10 after trying them out, than to risk spending $60 on a game and HOPING that it's good.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 07:26 PM   #31
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Better question:

Is the PS4 competition with the iPad 5? I wasn't aware they were in the same field.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 07:40 PM   #32
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I severely doubt mobile gaming will replace console gaming in the near future. I have some of these so called amazing games on my iphone (real racing, infinity blade 2, sky gamblers) and whilst it is impressive how far mobile gaming has come in recent years, you just can't come close to the quality of a dedicated platform.

For a start there's screen size - there's nothing wrong with gaming on a small screen, but it's just not immersive enough to replace bug screen gaming.

Then there's the power of the device itself. Comparing real racing 2 to forza motorsport 2 (3 years older) and there's no contest for realism, performance and graphics.

Finally (from what I can think of), there's control. Yes you get accelerometer/gyro in a mobile device but console controls are specifically designed to give you a lot of precision control over a game, and do a good job. There's no substitute for a hardware button for semi-serious gamers.

So in conclusion, I think that mobile gaming will continue to grow, but won't replace console gaming until it overcomes these 3 issues above. So screen size, semi solved with airplay. Performance will continue to increase but won't rival consoles for a number of years IMO. And controls... well I can't see an obvious solution to this for a while to come - I expect this to be the last issue to be fixed. Then finally you have to add 3-7 years ish to get everyone to give up consoles, and only then will mobile have truly replaced console gaming. (That's if it ever fully does)

Sorry for the essay, I think I waffled a bit too much there but it's late
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 08:10 PM   #33
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I love how people who play games on their iOS devices aren't "serious" (meaning "superior") and are relegated to a status of game playing called "casual" (meaning "inferior").

If one plays a game like Joe Danger on an iOS device and then on a PS3, is that person both a casual gamer and a serious gamer? Or just stupid because they play a game like Joe Danger?
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 08:52 PM   #34
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You do realize that real games, are 10-20 gigs? Some are even larger.
What qualifies PS3 games as "real" and iPad games as "not real"? A game is a game, if you get enjoyment out of it, then it has accomplished its purpose. Angry Birds is as much a game as Call of Duty, though they are quite different. Lest you say that length is a qualifier, remember that Baldur's Gate is available for iPad, and has got to be one of the longest, if not THE longest, games available for iPad.

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Reality is the Ipad gets watered down clones, and thats the truth.
The truth is that there are games I play on my iPad that I would never consider playing on my PS3 and vice-versa.

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Another fact is these consoles are 6-7 years old, and they still kill the ipad.
Yes, that is a fact. Congratulations, you can state a fact. It has no relevance whatsoever. My PS3 is 6 years old or so, and my MacBook Pro is 3 years old. My MBP is literally over 4x as powerful as the PS3 in all aspects, yet the PS3 kills my MBP in terms of gaming performance. The PS3 is a dedicated gaming machine, whose hardware has remained unchanged for 6 years. Developers have been making games for that hardware and are eeking every last drop of power out of it as efficiently as possible. None of this is true of the iPad. So, which would logically put out better graphics?

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The way computer hardware is made, it is literally a matter of physics, that the ipad will never have the same capabilities as a console or computer.
I'd say even the first iPad is better than, say, a Nintendo 64. I think you mean that it won't have the capabilities of a current generation console, and that will be true.

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Not to mention the horrible controls of the touch screen.
There are plenty of games that beautifully illustrate just how elegant touchscreen controls can be. Clearly, you've never played any of them.

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And the people who dream of an apple tv combined with ipads as controllers are funny to, that would be like 2,200 for a terrible experience.
That would actually be the one thing that would drive me to an Apple TV right now. The device looks pretty awesome, but I don't have a use for it.

To reply to the original question, I think it's feasible that the iPad 5 could deliver graphics that at least initially look as good as current generation consoles, but that's honestly a stretch. For example, Real Racing 2 HD looks awesome, even on my TV. But when I load up Gran Turismo 5, the graphics of Real Racing 2 are suddenly put to shame. Granted, Real Racing 3 is probably coming out soon (speculation on my part!), but even some of the more impressive games, like Infinity Blade II, still fall short of something like Skyrim or Uncharted 3.

Will the iPad eventually surpass the PS3? Sure, there's no doubt of that. But it won't ever be keeping up with current generation consoles or computers. There's not enough space, and it's not what the iPad is made to do.

As to consoles dying, I think that will be determined by the next generation of consoles. Sony and Microsoft will have to come up with some really neat stuff, or I think this next generation will be their last. Nintendo has already played its hand in the Wii U, and from what I understand it's not going spectacularly. I love my PS3 because not only is it a great gaming console, it's pretty darn good as a media center. It's still a gaming system first (in terms of how it works), though. I think I use it for equal parts Netflix and games, as well as Blu-Ray. It's certainly the center of my media system. The PS4 and the XBox 720 will need to be so much more if they want to succeed. I think they'll both need to be Intel-based, which will ease cost of development, and integrate more with existing technologies and mobile devices. Just my 2...
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:57 AM   #35
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There are certain kinds of experiences that are optimized or only found through the control mechanism you use to interact with the games on iPads (touch).

The same can be said with consoles and their controllers.

The same can be said with PCs.

I think the iPad will continue to take away form the more casual consumers that honestly never really cared about gaming to begin with. The kind of people that are only looking for simple distractions and disposable entertainment without any real investment (time/money/effort/whatever).

Consoles, like PCs are now, I think will cater to the more enthusiastic (hardcore, whatever you want to call them) demographic that wants a little more from their games that demand more precise inputs.

So I suppose in terms of gross revenue, they are both competing for that large group of people, but in terms of playing to their strengths, they are completely different demographics that expect/demand different things.

I personally think console gaming will eventually switch over and focus on margins rather than volume for profit, but that will require a different way of approaching game development which may not happen this upcoming generation.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 06:11 AM   #36
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iPad 5 will probably replace all items in existance that involve screens/and or processors. Apple will probably lobby to outlaw all other manufacturers anyways.

Good looking out, OP.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:51 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by rahul247rocks View Post
We all know that the launch of iPad 5 is just round the corner.
No we don't know that. We know that some of the blogs and stock analysts want us to believe there will be a new full sized iPad and perhaps also a new Mini in the next 60 days or so, but that doesn't make it fact

Quote:
One of the areas where Apple should be emphasizing is the Graphics power.
If they are designing to compete with game consoles sure. And to a smaller degree yes in terms of generally better displays, outdoor use etc.

But to answer the actual question, will the next iPads be able to complete with game consoles. To a degree the iPads already can and yes the next ones will probably do a bit better. But over all I think that we are still a few years out before we can talk of writing off game consoles. Particularly since I doubt that Apple is designing for such a goal or ever will

----------

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Originally Posted by darngooddesign View Post
Anyone who buys an iPad instead of a PS3 or PS4 didn't really want a Playstation on the first place.
True. But it doesn't mean that they might not play a "Playstation style" game or two on that iPad if it was an option.

i doubt anyone bought an iPad just to play Infinity Blade but it was a very popular game in its time

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Originally Posted by Moonjumper View Post
or have Apple API's and related standards that any controller manufacturer can use, to get any success.
they already exist.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:53 PM   #38
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Can it compete with PS3 or 4???

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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:53 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
I love how people who play games on their iOS devices aren't "serious" (meaning "superior") and are relegated to a status of game playing called "casual" (meaning "inferior").
Indeed. The Snobbery is uncalled for.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:01 PM   #40
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The truth of the matter is no the iPad 5 can't compete with the PS4 or the next Xbox on processing power. It's a totally different gaming experience. But you know what the iPad 5 doesn't need to compete against it and it has already had major implications on handheld gaming.

The once mighty Nintendo portables and the PSP line has been severly hampered by really inexpensive iOS and Android games. The PSP Vita which I own and like a lot is destined for the FAIL heap real soon. The Nintendo 3DS had to drop it's price shortly after it was released because of slow sales.

Yes there are some really good handheld games but you can't beat a 99c or $1.99 iOS game that's delivered seamlessly and you can play it on other iOS devices without worrying about DRM.

It's already been said that this could be the last round of home consoles. People are getting tired of dropping $60 on turd games. I own all the major consoles and I find myself enjoying more a quality iOS or Android game for 99c.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:10 PM   #41
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Look at the way in which Apple's mobile processing is progressing.

2009 - Angry Birds Temple Run
2011 - Infinity Blade, Real Racing 2
2012 - Modern Combat 4, NOVA
2013 - Real Racing 3 (yet to come)

Why won't I ask this question? And someone told me that this is a dumb one. Huh! I think after a few more years consoles will cease to exist as Tv's themselves will come with pre-built consoles. The iPad can easily achieve PS 3 graphics within 2 years if they continue on this graph.

AGREE or DISAGREE?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:13 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by rahul247rocks View Post
Look at the way in which Apple's mobile processing is progressing.

2009 - Angry Birds Temple Run
2011 - Infinity Blade, Real Racing 2
2012 - Modern Combat 4, NOVA
2013 - Real Racing 3 (yet to come)

Why won't I ask this question? And someone told me that this is a dumb one. Huh! I think after a few more years consoles will cease to exist as Tv's themselves will come with pre-built consoles. The iPad can easily achieve PS 3 graphics within 2 years if they continue on this graph.

AGREE or DISAGREE?
I agree about the quality of the graphics but not about the tvs. I don't think anyone is ever going to 'smart' a tv by building in a console. But I also think they won't need to because with devices like iPads that have the power needed and tools like AirPlay there will be ways to get the content up on the screen if so desired
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:46 PM   #43
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I think home console days are numbered. We are already seeing it's replacement waiting in the wings and it's called the $99 Ouya.

The developer has already stated that it will get a yearly hardware update. So yeah whether it's Apple hurting console sales or the Ouya, either way gaming in the future will be a lot cheaper than it is today. Did you guys know that the average Ps3/Xbox 360 game cost $3-5 million? A blockbuster title can cost $50+ million to make. THAT IS INSANE and a reason why small developers have jumped ship on that ecosystem and gone the way of iOS and Android.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 07:11 AM   #44
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I think home console days are numbered. We are already seeing it's replacement waiting in the wings and it's called the $99 Ouya.
I think the Ouya is going to have to go through a lot of hurdles in order to be successful. For one thing, it's pretty underpowered compared to current systems, forget next generation systems. Skyrim would be impossible on it, for example. The other thing is the requirement that all games have to have a free version. I know a lot of companies do demos already, but it's still going to hurt development. The Ouya will probably get a good number of games since it's an Android system, but most big game companies, the ones driving console sales, will find it difficult to justify developing for the Ouya.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 07:24 AM   #45
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We all know that the launch of iPad 5 is just round the corner. One of the areas where Apple should be emphasizing is the Graphics power. Do you think that the new iPad 5 will have enough juice to create PS 3 like graphics. We all know PS 4 is coming out and I am not comparing an ipad with it.
You ARE comparing the iPad to the playstation, that's precisely what you are doing. They are two completely different products with two completely different goals and target audiences. Even though consoles are becoming more 'media hubs', their main focus is still gaming, iPads main focus will never be gaming, gaming is just an option for users. iPad will have the same progression as now, it's hitting ps2 graphics with just a bit more more pizazz. It has, and will not have anytime soon, the capacity to run full ps3 graphics.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 10:12 AM   #46
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What IS interesting, though, is the GeekBench score comparisons. Yes, I know, benchmark scores aren't everything, but they are interesting.

PS3 GeekBench: 956
iPad 4 GeekBench: 1787

That's a huge difference, the iPad 4 is nearly twice as powerful as the PS3 in terms of raw benchmark numbers. Interestingly, the iPad outperforms the PS3 in every single section, it's not just getting a huge boost from one section to outperform overall.

Reasons why the PS3 still puts out better graphics: it's optimized for games, the iPad is not. The GPU almost certainly supports rendering modes and other features that the iPad's GPU does not. I'm sure there are more. It comes down to the fact that the PS3 is primarily a gaming device and the iPad 4 isn't.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 08:40 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by rahul247rocks View Post
Look at the way in which Apple's mobile processing is progressing.

2009 - Angry Birds Temple Run
2011 - Infinity Blade, Real Racing 2
2012 - Modern Combat 4, NOVA
2013 - Real Racing 3 (yet to come)

Why won't I ask this question? And someone told me that this is a dumb one. Huh! I think after a few more years consoles will cease to exist as Tv's themselves will come with pre-built consoles. The iPad can easily achieve PS 3 graphics within 2 years if they continue on this graph.

AGREE or DISAGREE?
Infinity Blade II already looks up to par with PS3 graphics. And Real Racing 3 also looks quite nice Don't forget the iPad 3 and 4 is running it a much higher resolution than the PS3 also
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 04:33 PM   #48
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Infinity Blade II already looks up to par with PS3 graphics.
No it doesn't. And the lack of depth is huge compared to games like Skyrim, BF3 and MANY others. Restrictions on app sizes, thermal envelopes and touch screen controls is what's keeping iOS games from reaching console like graphics and immersion. In 2-3 years, you could be right. But right now, there's still a lot of catching up to do. And that will be to achieve PS3/360 like graphics. PS4/Nextbox graphics will be another story. Things have come a LONG way since the days of the first ipad but there's still more to do.

iPad: A4,1Ghz/256mb/PowerVR SGX535
iPad 2: A5,1Ghz DC/512mb/PowerVR SGX543MP2
iPad 3: A5X,1Ghz DC/1gb/PowerVR SGX543MP4
iPad 4: A6X, 1.4Ghz DC/PowerVR PowerVR#Series SGX554MP4

We'll need a couple more revisions, the 2gb app size cap needs to be lifted and we'll need the ability for controllers and something like XB Live or PSN for online gaming (more advanced than game center).
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 05:40 PM   #49
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Infinity Blade II already looks up to par with PS3 graphics. And Real Racing 3 also looks quite nice Don't forget the iPad 3 and 4 is running it a much higher resolution than the PS3 also
Do you have both devices? I do, and IBII, while it looks excellent, is nowhere close to high-end graphics on a PS3. Skyrim is probably the closest in terms of style, and it blows away IBII. Then you look at things like Uncharted 3, and you're moving even further away from what the iPad is capable of.

There is no game for iPad that is on par with PS3 games in terms of graphics.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:19 AM   #50
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Put grand theft auto 4 on the ipad first before comparing to to a ps3. I bet the ipad cant run GTA 4.
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