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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:49 PM   #101
phillipduran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonHarvey1 View Post
Outback isn't Australian. It's an "Australian themed" American restaurant chain.
I think some elements of his comment were lost on you. . .
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:50 PM   #102
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Being an actual Australian I believe I am more qualified than the majority of you idiots here. And apple really don't do too bad of a job with price conversion.

For the Americans here trying to figure out price differences, Australia has a much more ingenious pricing solution. We HAVE to include tax in every advertised price. Since our GST is 10% across the country it doesn't matter where you buy it. (This being the most annoying thing about America, besides tipping).

But yeah, apples not too bad. And what someone has already said, if the government wants to waste our tax payers dollars on over priced luxury items, they should really be focused on Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft (Xbox) in relation to console prices and also game publishers. Game prices are a complete rip off here

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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:54 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by RKO View Post
It really sucks to pay twice as much for the same slave labour made goods.
A joke, I hope, because Apple pays their college educated Design engineers, Manufacturing engineers, Material engineers, Electrical engineers, Software engineers, and every other highly skilled position a bit more than slave labor prices.

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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
You'd be pissed if the ARM license fee from the UK company shot up for US only companies wouldnt you.
Probably not. However I'd guess that the ARM license fee DOES cost a different amount for each company that has it.

[/QUOTE]It's only fair that unless there actually is a need to price items higher (e.g to cover shipping, import duties, etc) then there really is no excuse for any company to be charging at such noticeably higher prices.[QUOTE]

Capitalism and free market has absolutely nothing to do with fair, at least not in so far as everyone pays the same amount goes. If you want everyone to pay the same amount, you need a different economic model.

Quote:
In the UK we pay around 10% more for Apple products (after tax). That's not much on something like a mouse or keyboard, but on a mac thats a crazy amount more.
Prices in the US are almost always advertised at their pre-tax price. This is because every level below the federal government can add additional sales taxes at the State, County, and City level. I live in Seattle WA, and I believe our base combined tax is around 9.5% on everything but groceries bought at a store. Other things like prepared food can be even higher. Here is a nice example that perhaps shows the pain of displaying post-tax prices in the United States.

I'm not going to argue this one way or the other, but for discussion sake I thought I'd point that out. We're no strangers to biatching about our neighbors either, as Oregon (neighbor state) has no sales tax. As us what we think of that

Second, the distance between the manufacturing completion point and point of sale is near irrelevant in shipping price. The quantity of the units to a location does mater in the price, along with the amount of tonnage shipping. I don't know if the United States receives more than Australia, so I'll let you figure it out or guess.

Lastly, in general every "market" in the business world needs to justify their own sales. The money that goes into a market can go towards any number of things, from shipping, to advertisement, lawsuit chances, local taxes, etc etc. I'm no expert here at all, but the cost of "doing business" is not simple, and companies succeed and fail on their ability to track this stuff. At the end of the day, the cost to do business in the Australian Market will be recouped in the price, and if it can't be than it's not worth Apple doing business there. This is also why there is no Apple store in the Arctic.

And then, at the end of the day, in a capitalist economy, Apple can charge whatever they want. However, I wouldn't try and simply the cost difference into "Taxes" and "Greedy". A lot more goes into it, and some of it is secrets in how they are doing business. The entire cost model is not something I would expect any business to openly display to the world, as it might allow other companies to mimic how they are able to "do business" for less than they are.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:55 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJM View Post
I agree with you, to be honest.
Yeah, that's right, just ignore things like having a fuse in every plug and shutters on the live/neutral pins in the socket that don't open until the earth pin is inserted. Me, I prefer not to have a shower of sparks when I plug something in (and that's with your limp-wristed 110 volts rather than our blue-blooded 240V) and to have my wall-wart power adapters stay firmly plugged into the wall, not drooping at a crazy angle.

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And stepping on them is a total bitch, too.
Nonsense. Stepping on a UK plug leaves it totally undamaged - stepping on a US/Aus plug can easily bend or break the pins. Grow up - those lacerations to your foot will heal, but having to buy a new power lead sucks.

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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:57 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by ThatsMeRight View Post
Well, to give you an example. The highest standard-configuration Retina MacBook Pro costs $2799 in the United States, without taxes.

In Europe, it can cost as much $3265 without any taxes at all. So, without taxes, there's already a difference of $466. You could buy an iPad mini + an iPod shuffle + accessoiries with this money.

If you take into account that taxes are extremely high in other modern, western, countries, than the difference is even more astonishing. In Europe, the Retina Macbook Pro I talked about will cost you $3951. If you compare that with the United States, where in some states you don't even need to pay sales tax, than there's a difference of $1152.

Basically, there are two issues:

- Apple asking much more money, even when taxes are taken out of the equation (as seen above: a Retina MacBook Pro standard configuration costs $466 extra).
- High sales tax, adding to the cost compared to the USA [in some states, you don't even need to pay sales tax] (as seen above: when you include taxes, a Retina MacBook Pro standard configuration costs $1152 extra)

The second thing is something Apple can't fix. It's not their problem. The first thing, however, is outrageous.

The combination just makes it really hard to swallow for a lot of people. You can get one Retina MacBook Pro in Europe while, for the same money, in the United States you can get [i]one[/b] Retina MacBook Pro, one iPad mini, one unlocked 16 GB iPhone 5, one Apple TV and still have $75 for accessoiries or iTunes content or whatever.

Again, the problem is a combination of Apple asking a premium plus high sales tax. Also, again, it should be no surprise: for a lot of people, it is hard to understand why in Europe - and other parts of the world - you can only get one MacBook Pro, while for the same money in the US you can get a Retina MacBook Pro + iPad mini + iPhone 5 + Apple TV + still have money left for accessories or iTunes content or whatever.
There are extra costs in Europe, e.g. transportation costs: gas prices are way higher than in North America, wages need to be paid en Euros, there could even be import taxes and insurance is probably higher too. Usually, everything is a bit more expensive in Europe.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:57 PM   #106
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Shipping? Warranties? Labor?

I'm not saying Apple is being fair (businesses don't do "fair"), but I'm surprised no one has mentioned other costs that vary from country to country. Shipping the Macs to the country? Higher cost to Apple for warranty repairs? Labor costs, in Apple stores and other local customer service? Oh, and what about the fact that these aren't just US Macs transplanted, but ones with localizations?

I'll be curious to see how Apple justifies this. However, as was pointed out by another reader, Austrailia has a free market, so only competition should govern prices. Apple isn't a monopoly, and they're not in collusion with other PC makers to do price-fixing, so the government shouldn't be involved here.

If this were a food item, I could see them getting angry if they're getting unfairly high prices. But Macs aren't exactly vital resources.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:57 PM   #107
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This thread is so full of blatant ignorance and blind arrogance that it's downright mind boggling.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:05 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camnchar View Post
That's how much it costs to ship products to the Edge of the Known Universe.
well, shipping wise, it's the same, they get shipped from china... comparing the difference in aus, it ain't that much more... europe, it's quite a bit. but also consider the minimum wage in the us and in europe, the minimum paid holidays... that adds to the overhead of the stores as well.....
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:05 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by TMar View Post
Obviously there wasn't any cues you noticed. Sadly for you you're the only one missed it.
Amen, brother. Was half expecting another post noting that according to Stephen Hawking Australia is not actually at the Edge of the Known Universe.

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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:05 PM   #110
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This is pure political gamesmanship. All products are priced for the markets in which they are sold, not at some theoretical world price that doesn't factor in local economic conditions. The U.S. dollar has deliberately been kept weak for years now, so of course almost everything abroad is going to look more expensive when priced back into dollars. Don't overlook the real issue, which is the weak U.S. dollar, a situation that other countries tend to resent because it makes our products more profitable abroad and their products more expensive here. The U.S. makes the same complaint against China, and other countries that use undervalued currencies to boost exports.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:08 PM   #111
walterg74
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Idk, guess this just makes a case for aussies bei stupid? It's called free market Australia, they sell at whatever the f they want and you're free to buy it or not...
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:10 PM   #112
unobtainium
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Originally Posted by luist3k View Post
Unbelievable.

It's a free world and a free market. If you can't afford your tech, buy Lenovo.
Actually it's not a completely free market, obviously (nor should it be). If Apple wants to sell its products in Australia it has to conform to
Australian laws and be accountable to Australian regulators. There's nothing at all wrong with this. If a company doesn't want to deal with international laws, they should stick to selling domestically.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:10 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by ThatsMeRight View Post
Well, to give you an example. The highest standard-configuration Retina MacBook Pro costs $2799 in the United States, without taxes.

In Europe, it can cost as much $3265 without any taxes at all. So, without taxes, there's already a difference of $466. You could buy an iPad mini + an iPod shuffle + accessoiries with this money.

If you take into account that taxes are extremely high in other modern, western, countries, than the difference is even more astonishing. In Europe, the Retina Macbook Pro I talked about will cost you $3951. If you compare that with the United States, where in some states you don't even need to pay sales tax, than there's a difference of $1152.

Basically, there are two issues:

- Apple asking much more money, even when taxes are taken out of the equation (as seen above: a Retina MacBook Pro standard configuration costs $466 extra).
- High sales tax, adding to the cost compared to the USA [in some states, you don't even need to pay sales tax] (as seen above: when you include taxes, a Retina MacBook Pro standard configuration costs $1152 extra)

The second thing is something Apple can't fix. It's not their problem. The first thing, however, is outrageous.

The combination just makes it really hard to swallow for a lot of people. You can get one Retina MacBook Pro in Europe while, for the same money, in the United States you can get [i]one[/b] Retina MacBook Pro, one iPad mini, one unlocked 16 GB iPhone 5, one Apple TV and still have $75 for accessoiries or iTunes content or whatever.

Again, the problem is a combination of Apple asking a premium plus high sales tax. Also, again, it should be no surprise: for a lot of people, it is hard to understand why in Europe - and other parts of the world - you can only get one MacBook Pro, while for the same money in the US you can get a Retina MacBook Pro + iPad mini + iPhone 5 + Apple TV + still have money left for accessories or iTunes content or whatever.
A little shortsighted of you methinks. Most goods are priced for the market they are in. I'm sure they'd be a different price in a developing country. Just like any other goods.
This is the price you pay, (and no I don't like it).
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:10 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by daxomni View Post
This thread is so full of blatant ignorance and blind arrogance that it's downright mind boggling.
Welcome to the Internet.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:11 PM   #115
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A 3.8% price premium is what they are complaining about? Do they forget to take into account their own taxes?
What you and most people don't understand is that even with the high australian dollar, people are paying way more than they should for most things. It *IS* price gouging. People in australia have had a gut full, and thats why they buy direct from overseas these days.

Even with taxes accounted for, stuff overseas is always cheaper. That's why bricks and mortar retail in australia is suffering. You could add 20% tax, and it would still be cheaper to buy direct from the US.

The worst example is software. Why, for something that is delivered electronically, should somebody pay upward of 300% more than their US cousins? That's mainly what the complaint is about.

It's not just about imacs.

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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:12 PM   #116
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There have been various comments about "Free enterprise" - which really is a lame excuse, since there's a lot more than that going on.

I don't know if your from the USA, but if you were.... the USA has one of the most expensive drug prices compared to other industrial country. Upset about that? Maybe? Probably? Well, free enterprise, after all.....??

There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting companies to explain the prices they charge. Consumer protection.

If in the review the Australian does find evidence of over charging then their government have every right to crack down on the practice. If these companies don't like it - they can stop trading down under.. but I doubt they would.

Most people wouldn't care about this story if it didn't reference Apple... but it does and most get so defensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderhawks View Post
1) A clear pissing contest. The government could make it's own study and calculations and figure this out. Too lazy?
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:12 PM   #117
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I've lived in the UK and mainland Europe, dealing with Pounds, Euros, and back in the day, Guilders and Marks. Local cost of goods is so much more complex than simple math based on an exchange rate snapshot. Remember there's a whole economy involved in setting those local prices. Hedging against currency fluctuations is a factor too.

This is a political move to build local support. "Look voters, we're going to bat for you."

It's also pretty ridiculous that adjusting for taxes is an afterthought. It's probably because in most countries they just see the price something is to walk out the door with it. In the US tax is a nasty surprise at the register. These consumers should also be reminded that even in the US, buying a computer costs literally hundreds of dollars more in NY than NH, when you look at taxes.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:17 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by apple_iBoy View Post
If Australia doesn't like it, maybe Australia should develop it's own home-grown talent and compete.
That's rich, especially when you consider the design of all the apple products come from the talent of someone from England.

You must be a true fan boy. Blind and ignorant.

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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:19 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by FrankieTDouglas View Post
Wouldn't matter. Fosters isn't an Australian beer, from what friends in Australia tell me. It's ran by a UK company now.
Yeah. Apparently in Australia, Fosters is Australian for, "I can't believe those Americans will drink that swill!"
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:22 PM   #120
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Considering the pathetic performance the standard hard drive in the pregnant iMac now gives you, I think the aussies may have a case here.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:22 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by aksmax View Post
I've lived in the UK and mainland Europe, dealing with Pounds, Euros, and back in the day, Guilders and Marks. Local cost of goods is so much more complex than simple math based on an exchange rate snapshot. Remember there's a whole economy involved in setting those local prices. Hedging against currency fluctuations is a factor too.

This is a political move to build local support. "Look voters, we're going to bat for you."

It's also pretty ridiculous that adjusting for taxes is an afterthought. It's probably because in most countries they just see the price something is to walk out the door with it. In the US tax is a nasty surprise at the register. These consumers should also be reminded that even in the US, buying a computer costs literally hundreds of dollars more in NY than NH, when you look at taxes.
Exactly right. Every one of the named companies have to compete against other products in every market where they sell. They are simply unable to charge a premium in any market, unless they face no effective competition in that market. And if they are able to charge a premium in one market, then surely they could charge it in all other markets. Again, this is a political game about undervalued currencies. The message from the politicians in Australia is if the U.S. dollar is going to be kept at deliberately depressed levels as a matter of national fiscal policy in the U.S., then they will hold someone's feet to the fire.

As for sales taxes, they don't really come as a "nasty surprise" to U.S. consumers. Everybody knows they are going to a pay sales tax when they get to the register, though with all the variations in rates across the country they might not know exactly how much.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:22 PM   #122
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Welcome to the Internet.
More like welcome to America. Sheesh.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:22 PM   #123
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Most people wouldn't care about this story if it didn't reference Apple... but it does and most get so defensive.

Yes, and this is the most annoying aspect. If it were another company, they'd be howled down. Because it's apple, all the defenders who think apple can do no wrong no matter what come out.

Also, it's not just about an imac. In Australia, people have mostly been railing about the software price ripoff - especially since you normally download it, and there is no additional cost to the company. Yes Adobe and Microsoft - we're looking mainly at you on this one. For some reason, this article doesn't focus on that. It's almost as if the purpose of the article is to garner sympathy for apple.

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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:27 PM   #124
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Well, whilst in the UK I have many have got used to being raped on prices, it's an expensive place to live, when it comes to apps and digital content I actually have never found a problem with Apple?? I have a HUMONGOUS problem with developers like Gameloft offering 'freemium' titles though as if you ask me, the freemium model just earns them more money then the old selling model ever would.
But when I can buy games like Asphalt 7 for 70 pence and it works perfectly fine without having to spend more cash, or Modern Combat runs fine for 4 without having to go anywhere near the 70 cost of a massive coin pack or whatever it is, then I call it good value?

As for music on iTunes, I always thought that was pretty cheap too??

Will be interesting to see what happens though, but Apple is a premium brand, you can't force them to change that just so more people can buy the products, if the priceing was too much Apple would lower the cost themselves?


meh the only thing I want to see take a massive drop in price is petrol!
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:27 PM   #125
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More like welcome to America. Sheesh.
Well, we are the greatest nation on earth. Ohh yea, and we invented the Internet. You are again welcome, sir.
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