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Old Feb 12, 2013, 11:45 AM   #1
Cubytus
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Store music locally in iPad, still provide access to iTunes Match

Hi all,

considering that a fast WiFi connection is hard to come by when we exactly need it, I was wondering if it would be possible to synchronize music locally (through WLAN or USB connection) but still provide access to songs stored in the cloud by iTunes Match?

This would be to allow loading of local playlists while being able to see cloud-stored songs. Is there any way to tell them apart? Or is it exclusively one or the other, which would be pretty crappy
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 03:59 PM   #2
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Syncing is disabled last time I tried it with iTunes Match. What I personally do is download my favorite albums or playlists to the device. I have an LTE iPad but I'd much rather have my favs with me at all times.

You can sync music to your device before turning on iTunes Match and the local music should stay on there as long as it's also part of the library that iTunes Match uses.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 05:51 PM   #3
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So I should turn off iTunes Match on the iPad, leave it on on the Mac for, well, matching purpose, and I will have access to local sync?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 09:04 PM   #4
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So I should turn off iTunes Match on the iPad, leave it on on the Mac for, well, matching purpose, and I will have access to local sync?
Yes, if it's off on the iOS device you should be able to sync it just fine.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:56 PM   #5
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And will I still have access to it in iTunes?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:18 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
And will I still have access to it in iTunes?
Access to what in iTunes? You may want to just plug your iPad in and test. I'd test it, but I don't sync my devices with iTunes. I just use Match.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:19 AM   #7
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To iTunes Match of course. I don't sync neither, just want to manage music by hand so as to avoid shortcomings such as written in the first post.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 07:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
To iTunes Match of course. I don't sync neither, just want to manage music by hand so as to avoid shortcomings such as written in the first post.
Very simply, as stated by a previous user, when you turn on iTunes Match on your iOS device you cannot also manually sync music from iTunes to the device. It's one or the other. Not both at the same time. Understand now?

The music that you want to "manually" manage can just be downloaded in the Music app on your device using iTunes Match - so you will have the songs on the device plus everything else is available to access/download at your own leisure. Playlists are also synced using iTunes Match so these will appear on your device too. It's really not that complicated at all!
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 10:30 AM   #9
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Very simply, as stated by a previous user, when you turn on iTunes Match on your iOS device you cannot also manually sync music from iTunes to the device. It's one or the other. Not both at the same time. Understand now?
I understand and there's no need to make it look as if you were superior. I just find this is somewhat inconvenient.

Quote:
The music that you want to "manually" manage can just be downloaded in the Music app on your device using iTunes Match - so you will have the songs on the device plus everything else is available to access/download at your own leisure. Playlists are also synced using iTunes Match so these will appear on your device too. It's really not that complicated at all!
As stated in the very first post, there's a reason behind it:
Quote:
(...)considering that a fast WiFi connection is hard to come by when we exactly need it
More precisely, when a playing list is created, songs aren't downloaded for a gapless playing, but begin loading when their turn comes, which yields a 2-7 seconds gap between each song, whatever the wifi network is. Definitely not fluid, and just another reason to dislike streaming. So yes, music can be downloaded from Match, but it is definitely an unpleasant method to use, and nobody even undestated that this proces, although inefficient, was complicated.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:46 AM   #10
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All you need to do is create a playlist that contains all the tracks you would like to keep locally. Navigate to that playlist on the iPad, and scroll all the way to the bottom. Click the icon to 'download all'. This will download that entire playlist, while still giving you access to your entire Matched library.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 01:08 PM   #11
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OP, it seems as though you are overcomplicating this, or perhaps just don't fully understand how iTunes Match works on iOS devices.

On the computer, yes, it is streaming and would require a good internet connection to stream rather than download.

On iOS devices, there is not even an option to stream your matched library. When you do have a connection you can download whatever you think you'll need, store it locally, and the rest of your matched library is still available to you in the cloud.

While downloading will require you to have a connection, so will syncing to your computer and this is a much less cumbersome process.

I'm not trying to be condescending, just hoping that a more full explanation will help clear it up for you. Because it seems like this method is exactly what you were looking for in your original post.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 06:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
I understand and there's no need to make it look as if you were superior. I just find this is somewhat inconvenient.

As stated in the very first post, there's a reason behind it:
More precisely, when a playing list is created, songs aren't downloaded for a gapless playing, but begin loading when their turn comes, which yields a 2-7 seconds gap between each song, whatever the wifi network is. Definitely not fluid, and just another reason to dislike streaming. So yes, music can be downloaded from Match, but it is definitely an unpleasant method to use, and nobody even undestated that this proces, although inefficient, was complicated.
If songs are pre-downloaded (in a place where you can get fast wifi, sigh) there are no gaps when playing them as the songs are already there on your device. So you could download the playlist tracks somewhere you get good wifi. No? Match actually starts downloading (it does not actually stream on iOS devices) the next track before the current one is finished, to smoothen the transition. I don't get gaps myself. Personally Match works flawlessly for me since the start.
Well here is my ultimate advice, maybe iTunes Match is just not for you...!! Do not renew it next year.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 12:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasto2236 View Post
(...)
On iOS devices, there is not even an option to stream your matched library. When you do have a connection you can download whatever you think you'll need, store it locally, and the rest of your matched library is still available to you in the cloud.

While downloading will require you to have a connection, so will syncing to your computer and this is a much less cumbersome process.

I'm not trying to be condescending, just hoping that a more full explanation will help clear it up for you. Because it seems like this method is exactly what you were looking for in your original post.
Actually when the iPad is connected, it starts playing and, seem to start loading the songs, one at a time when their turn comes. It may not be strictly streaming with buffer, but as in streaming, there is a significant load time, as well as download time when tens of songs are to be downloaded at once, such as in a playing list.

Typical public wifi hotspots here give you 150KB/s, which clearly doesn't help. Faster connections such as college's ones still let gaps between songs for a yet unknown reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenya View Post
All you need to do is create a playlist that contains all the tracks you would like to keep locally. Navigate to that playlist on the iPad, and scroll all the way to the bottom. Click the icon to 'download all'. This will download that entire playlist, while still giving you access to your entire Matched library.
This is precisely the manual process I wanted to avoid. I find that iTunes automatic playlists just do fine, and if it doesn't, I randomly fill space with songs (after all if it's sitting in my library it's probably because I like them).

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Originally Posted by Defender2010 View Post
If songs are pre-downloaded (in a place where you can get fast wifi, sigh) there are no gaps when playing them as the songs are already there on your device. So you could download the playlist tracks somewhere you get good wifi. No? Match actually starts downloading (it does not actually stream on iOS devices) the next track before the current one is finished, to smoothen the transition. I don't get gaps myself. Personally Match works flawlessly for me since the start.
Well here is my ultimate advice, maybe iTunes Match is just not for you...!! Do not renew it next year.
Indeed, I happened to test it by downloading entire playlists, and there was no loading gap. However, this process requires constant intervention whenever I want to switch playing lists.

I got iTunes Match for its ability to retag, get better quality tracks when originals were a tad too bad, and thought it may even be able to play transparently between the cloud and local storage. Obviously this is not the case.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 01:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post

This is precisely the manual process I wanted to avoid. I find that iTunes automatic playlists just do fine, and if it doesn't, I randomly fill space with songs (after all if it's sitting in my library it's probably because I like them).

Indeed, I happened to test it by downloading entire playlists, and there was no loading gap. However, this process requires constant intervention whenever I want to switch playing lists.

I got iTunes Match for its ability to retag, get better quality tracks when originals were a tad too bad, and thought it may even be able to play transparently between the cloud and local storage. Obviously this is not the case.
I don't understand what you want then? You have to somehow tell it what music you want to store locally, no? Whether you sync via cable or this method, you still have to put that selection together into a playlist. When you want to change that selection, you still have to modify a playlist. This method merely requires you to download rather than 'sync'.

It DOES play transparently between cloud and local storage, but you have to somehow define WHAT you want stored locally.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 08:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
Actually when the iPad is connected, it starts playing and, seem to start loading the songs, one at a time when their turn comes. It may not be strictly streaming with buffer, but as in streaming, there is a significant load time, as well as download time when tens of songs are to be downloaded at once, such as in a playing list.

Typical public wifi hotspots here give you 150KB/s, which clearly doesn't help. Faster connections such as college's ones still let gaps between songs for a yet unknown reason.

This is precisely the manual process I wanted to avoid. I find that iTunes automatic playlists just do fine, and if it doesn't, I randomly fill space with songs (after all if it's sitting in my library it's probably because I like them).

Indeed, I happened to test it by downloading entire playlists, and there was no loading gap. However, this process requires constant intervention whenever I want to switch playing lists.

I got iTunes Match for its ability to retag, get better quality tracks when originals were a tad too bad, and thought it may even be able to play transparently between the cloud and local storage. Obviously this is not the case.
iTunes Match does not re-tag anything, wherever you are getting this information it is obviously wrong. I really don't know what it is you want the service to do and can't be bothered to help either.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 10:36 AM   #16
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Apparently i'm the only one that has iTunes Match streaming my tracks that are not local to my device? lol

I have all of my music rated 1 star to 5 stars, and only keep songs rated 4+ with me. However, I have play lists for each track rated 3 and below, and they all have the song listed with the iCloud symbol to the right.

If I click on the song name, then it starts playing without downloading, and when it goes to the next song, the icloud symbol is still there.

However, if I click on the iCloud icon, then it begins downloading the song instead of streaming.

Is this not the norm for everyone?
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:06 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by jona2d View Post
Apparently i'm the only one that has iTunes Match streaming my tracks that are not local to my device? lol

I have all of my music rated 1 star to 5 stars, and only keep songs rated 4+ with me. However, I have play lists for each track rated 3 and below, and they all have the song listed with the iCloud symbol to the right.

If I click on the song name, then it starts playing without downloading, and when it goes to the next song, the icloud symbol is still there.

However, if I click on the iCloud icon, then it begins downloading the song instead of streaming.

Is this not the norm for everyone?
This is a bug, the downward pointing arrow remains after just playing a track even though it has actually cached (downloaded) that track on the device. It only disappears if you press on it to download the track again. It is very strange how Apple implemented this...
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:32 AM   #18
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This is a bug, the downward pointing arrow remains after just playing a track even though it has actually cached (downloaded) that track on the device. It only disappears if you press on it to download the track again. It is very strange how Apple implemented this...
It's not a bug but a matter of interpretation. When you play a song, but don't click on the download icon, it streams the song and keeps it in the cache temporarily. If you don't listen to it again for a long time, it will eventually get purged. If you click the download icon, it will mark that song to keep permanently on the device.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 02:17 PM   #19
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It's not a bug but a matter of interpretation. When you play a song, but don't click on the download icon, it streams the song and keeps it in the cache temporarily. If you don't listen to it again for a long time, it will eventually get purged. If you click the download icon, it will mark that song to keep permanently on the device.
I feel like it is a bug. The download arrow should vanish after the song has just played. It caches but then you have to download it again - thats 2 times if you count the caching when playing, Once the track is in the music app it should not need to be downloaded a second time just to make the downward arrow disappear. I doubt there are two separate cache and downloaded files kept in the Music app. The device will delete any tracks when storage is low to make space. It doesn't matter if these were streamed or downloaded by pushing the button. That's my interpretation!
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 02:37 PM   #20
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I feel like it is a bug. The download arrow should vanish after the song has just played. It caches but then you have to download it again - thats 2 times if you count the caching when playing, Once the track is in the music app it should not need to be downloaded a second time just to make the downward arrow disappear. I doubt there are two separate cache and downloaded files kept in the Music app. The device will delete any tracks when storage is low to make space. It doesn't matter if these were streamed or downloaded by pushing the button. That's my interpretation!
It does not actually download the file a second time when you press that button - it merely triggers a marker to keep that file locally. If it disappeared when you played, but did not choose to download the song, it would not be an accurate representation of the state of that file. The Cloud icon is more a flag indicating the file state than one that necessarily triggers an action.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:00 PM   #21
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It does not actually download the file a second time when you press that button - it merely triggers a marker to keep that file locally. If it disappeared when you played, but did not choose to download the song, it would not be an accurate representation of the state of that file. The Cloud icon is more a flag indicating the file state than one that necessarily triggers an action.
Rubbish, of course it does. Plus it uses data! You are clutching at straws.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:10 PM   #22
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Rubbish, of course it does. Plus it uses data! You are clutching at straws.
Regardless, that is not the point of the icon (which they added back due to user input). The cloud icon represents the STATE of the track. If it has only been cached, would it be accurate to represent it as downloaded? How would you download items to the phone that were currently in the cache?
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:56 PM   #23
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Regardless, that is not the point of the icon (which they added back due to user input). The cloud icon represents the STATE of the track. If it has only been cached, would it be accurate to represent it as downloaded? How would you download items to the phone that were currently in the cache?
...because cache equals downloaded. Haha, sorry, no offence, I can't spend any more time thinking about this. Deadlines.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 07:37 PM   #24
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I don't understand what you want then? You have to somehow tell it what music you want to store locally, no? Whether you sync via cable or this method, you still have to put that selection together into a playlist. When you want to change that selection, you still have to modify a playlist. This method merely requires you to download rather than 'sync'.

It DOES play transparently between cloud and local storage, but you have to somehow define WHAT you want stored locally.
Syncing and downloading are definitely not the same thing. Syncing is fast and takes place wether or not the iPad is being used, downloading is much slower and implies the iPad is actively being used and instructed to download. On my local network I just have to fire iTunes and instruct it to fill the iPad with intelligent playlists and mixes created automatically by iTunes. If I want to change a selection, I am activating another playlist. There's almost no manual intervention there. It is much slower than through USB, but I don't care much as syncing implies that I am sitting and not as in a hurry as downloading on the iPad itself.

Having so long a gap between songs played from the cloud, either streaming or downloaded as needed, is definitely not transparent. I am not telling about a one-two second gap, but most often fifteen to thirty, to the point I wonder if the Music application has crashed or not, since there are no actual signs of an undergoing operation, should it be a spinning wheel, a sound, etc. The play time indicator just stays at 0.

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iTunes Match does not re-tag anything, wherever you are getting this information it is obviously wrong. I really don't know what it is you want the service to do and can't be bothered to help either.
When you delete a matched song from your library, it remains available in iCloud. If you re-dowload it, it will be in the AAC-matched version, along with correct tagging. This was my primary motive to get iTunes Match, as I got fed up trying different retaggers that never quite worked. The second one was getting better versions of existing songs without having to look for them one by one, but let the system do its job by itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defender2010 View Post
This is a bug, the downward pointing arrow remains after just playing a track even though it has actually cached (downloaded) that track on the device. It only disappears if you press on it to download the track again. It is very strange how Apple implemented this...
It is strange, indeed, that Apple haven't thought to make playback gapless.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 08:57 PM   #25
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When you delete a matched song from your library, it remains available in iCloud. If you re-dowload it, it will be in the AAC-matched version, along with correct tagging. This was my primary motive to get iTunes Match, as I got fed up trying different retaggers that never quite worked. The second one was getting better versions of existing songs without having to look for them one by one, but let the system do its job by itself.
I'm assuming when you say "tagging" you're referring to the metadata. iTunes Match doesn't change any metadata at all. Whatever you had it set to, you'll get the same on the matched track. This was a big misconception when Match first launched as people thought they could use it to update their metadata and/or artwork.
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