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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:02 PM   #101
mac1984user
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I just bought a Nexus 4 with Android 4.2.1. It's a pretty enjoyable experience, and in some ways, much more seamless than my iPhone 4's OS hindrances. There are features I miss, notably iMessage and 'touch-to-focus' while in the video mode of the camera. The app store experience is more of a mine field and I find myself having to download apps (like a battery percentage app and a voice recording app) just to match the built-in functionality of the iPhone. However, I paid £280 instead of £599. This is also compared to the iPhone 4, which still sells new for £319 (and that's at 8GB instead of 16GB). My 2.5 year-old phone still costs £40 more (minus 8GB of storage capacity) than a 4-month phone that is indeed buttery-smooth. As others have said, the notification system is far better on Android, and the settings are easily accessible.

For many of my friends and family, a jailbroken iOS is the only reason they've stayed with the platform. I am quite fond of the seamlessness of the Apple ecosystem, but my iPhone (with a dodgy power button and home button) was simply more work than it was worth at times. It's no surprise that people are jumping ship - I just wish Apple got their act together to either justify the added expense with a GREAT OS or lower the price of their phones.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:40 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtek View Post
Samsung is making great and innovative products at a faster pace than Apple - its market share reflects just that.
I'm a big Apple fan and I've recently bought a Note 2 as my daily-driver and I'm loving it! It's a real shame that Apple offers no such product or I'd be buying it. Note 2 has sold more than 30 million units in a a few months so it's not a niche thing...

Wake-up Apple or Sammy will burst your bubble...
Not necessarily:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-575...ll-way-on-top/

Of course further research into this may need to be done.

Your probably seeing Samsung overtake other Android phone manufactures.

Another reason why Android market share does not always mean more money/marketshare for any one manufacturer.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:14 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Eduardo1971 View Post
I guess iOS 7 will 'make it or break it' for many straddling the fence between the iPhone and other mobile phone systems.

I wonder if this puts any pressure on the iOS team to make major changes in the next OS?
It ought to - and if it doesn't, then apple is far more arrogant than is what is already suspected.

And if they go down because of it, they only have themselves to blame.

.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:43 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Yes, free iPhones are only sold on AT&T

Heheheh! And for a good reason!

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
Then why most people who buy iPhones in USA do it on AT&T?
Because they have no choice. Sprint and Verizon use CDMA which sucks!

Hopefully this year other carriers with have the iPhone.

All this just proves that a lot of people are willing to pay almost double for phone service to AT&T, just to be able to have an iPhone.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:51 PM   #105
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Something needs to be kept in mind as I work pretty closely with Samsung. It seems that people are comparing the iPhone 5 to just the company Samsung as a whole.

Samsung sells a lot of phones. In the last year they promoted and sold the following phones:

Note, Note II, Galaxy S II (relaunched for more markets), Galaxy S III, Rugby 3, Rubgy Pro, Exhilarate, Focus 2( though it was a Windows phone), Express, Prevail, Lightray, Admire, Victory, Axiom, Nexus,

And those are just the ones that I know of from dealing with them personally.

Marketshare is about numbers and Samsung promotes and sells a number of phones, not just one.

Their strategy is to sell more phones that Apples, not just better phones. So you can get a really cheap phone like the Admire or pay top dollar for a Note II. Either way, that still counts as "market share".

I currently use an iPhone 5 as main device and a Note II for work only.

-Y.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:56 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by kjs862 View Post
I don't get these type of conversations. It's like talking about how much market share Ferrari has -- it doesn't make sense.

Apple is like Ferrari.
Let me know when Walmart starts selling Ferraris.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:58 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
Why? You can buy an iPhone for .99. And it means just what it means, Apple's market share decreased regardless of how many phones they sold.
Nice try, but not really true. Yes, you can buy an iPhone for $0.99 in the US, but only if you sign a 2-year agreement that locks you into paying more monthly than plans (from other carriers) with no subsidized phone attached. In most other countries, even the iPhone 4 still costs the equivalent of $450 (with much cheaper plans), and it's up against the $100 (or less) Android 2.3 phones that tom53092 was talking about.

So yes, Apple's market share decreased compared to Android, but only due to the millions of dirt-cheap (even off contract) feature-phone-replacement Android phones, which do not actually compete with the iPhone any more than cheap flip-phones did when the iPhone was first released. The real number to pay attention to is Apple's share of the overall phone market, of which Apple has 9.2% of the global mobile phone market. -- not just smartphones -- ALL phones; and Apple only sells high-end smartphones. I'd like to see Samsung's average selling price for their phones to see how they really compare.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:02 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by rodavilla View Post
Samsung's market share went from 19.6% to 22.7%, an 16% increase.
Apple's market share went from 7.4% to 9.2%, an 24% increase.
So Apple is increasing faster than Samsung. I would be interested in knowing what the profit is that each company makes off of each market share percentage. That would be of value.
Wow, I saw people making the opposite argument in the tablet thread a while ago, where Samsung had a smaller share but a bigger increase and Apple had a bigger share of the tablet market but a smaller increase.
Funny.

Quote:
regarding the OS comparisons:
Android OS is given away free to any and all. Apple makes billions off it's OS. So the comparison is of no value. Google makes money on searches/advertisements. I would be interested in knowing who makes the most profits off their OS. That would be of value.
Apple is selling iOS? Making money from the sales? That would be no and no.

Apple and Google are both making money from their OS in the same way, they take a cut when people buy things from the App Store and Google Play.

Last edited by SandboxGeneral; Feb 13, 2013 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Clean up of quoted text
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 04:10 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
With the net cost associated with the handset and OS about half the "consumer visible cost" on Android units including Samsung, one would actually expect the differential uptake to be much wider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmiller744 View Post
Stating facts is not the same thing as analysis. It's impossible for their percentage share not to drop when the market becomes so diluted. Samsung's percentage dropped as well, but they use the same OS as the others, so it's not reflected in this pointless chart. Apple still showed strong growth. Just because a number exists, doesn't mean it's relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella View Post
Don't think it really matters if iOS market share falls - it is to be expected as there are more and more non iOS smartphones entering the market.

What is important is that the iOS marketshare stays at a level that keeps developer interest. Fall too low and developers will move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzcat View Post
Does this include dumb phones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-Mariachi View Post
It will never happen but if Apple let other manufacturers install iOS on their phones and sell all different models and sizes of phones, Android will probably die that day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Which is why the thing that counts is the market share in _total_ phone sales. And there, Apple's market share is growing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tann View Post
20% is still 1/5th.

That's a lot!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KdParker View Post
I still don't see how android is stepping over IOS? These numbers are based on Apples one phone (iPhone) and all the cheaper phones that android is on.

Most people getting the cheaper phones is not choosing between IOS and android, they are just getting the cheaper phones. If Apple made NEW cheaper phones, then they would have a choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom53092 View Post
> Comparing *total* iPhone sales to total Android sales:
Comparing iPhone sales to sales of higher-end Android phones that actually compete with iPhone would be relevant. I'll bet the gap in sales would be a lot smaller.

There are lots of cheap Android phones being sold. Heck, you can still buy cheap phones with Android OS 2.3. These phone sales have no bearing on iPhone sales - they are being sold on price and are not a sale taken away from Apple.

There will always be a lot of buyers who buy based on price. Get used to it, people. Gnasher is right. It doesn't mean Apple is failing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Iceman View Post
There are a lot of Android phones and Tablet being sold for pennies, practically giveaways. And there are lots of people who that's all they can afford.
Maybe this is the reason why.
Remember: quantity doesn't make up for quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
Apple's in no trouble, obviously.

Samsung's eating a great deal of the uninformed-and-new-to-smartphones market: Samsung pays more in commissions to salespeople than Apple and Coke combined spend on advertising. Apple doesn't pay commissions to salespeople to push iPhones (and no need: they sell as many as they can name).

That's not a sticky effect, though: people who over time try both platforms are very likely to stick with iOS--it's simply the better, more hassle-free experience. (I mean of course real people, the majority, not the micro-niche of techies who want a phone to be like a PC--in ways both good and bad.)

Put another way, a lot of everyday non-techie people have Samsung phones as their first smartphone because some salesperson told them something untrue or misunderstood or simply handed it to them and said "this is best." Whereas most people have iPhones by actual choice! They went to Apple.com or an Apple store, or someone trusted (not a sales rep) recommended an iPhone for real reasons, or they went to their carrier store and asked for an iPhone even while the sales staff pushed something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy1958 View Post
Since Samsung no longer reports sales numbers, I would like to know where they got their information?!?!? Are they just pulling estimates out of thin air, and then reporting it as fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
I disagree. Even with Apples current market share, just from renenue alone its iTune store makes more money then most phone manufactures. People tend to spend more money on the iOS ecosystem then Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
Anyone who has a "brand appreciation" for Samsung needs to have their heads examined... There is nothing about Samsung's "brand" that can be appreciated other than they are good at copying what others invent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
Well, if your going to compare a phone operating system installed on hundreds or thousands of phone models by different manufactures to a few iPhone models, then its appropriate.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dejo View Post
Which users? Cuz clearly not all users here (even in this thread) are so blind as to ignore numbers unless they favor Apple.
These are a few examples from this thread. And there are similar results whenever a thread like this is started.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 04:14 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
These are a few examples from this thread. And there are similar results whenever a thread like this is started.
I'm confused? Why am I tagged?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 04:22 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by tann View Post
I'm confused? Why am I tagged?
My post wasn't intended to insult anyone quoted. It was to answer a moderators question about users spinning numbers that don't favor Apple. Your reply was that 20% was still a lot, quite true. But it is a few points less than it was a year ago which is also true.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 04:30 PM   #112
GregAndonian
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Originally Posted by syd430 View Post
This is the end of Apple.

I'm calling it now - Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 6 months.

You forgot the sarcasm tag.

With the huge pile of cash that Apple has, they could keep the company going for a very long time even if no one bought anything from them from here on out.

Apple could probably buy Guam if they really wanted to.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 05:35 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
But this is MacRumors and numbers are only important if they favor Apple. In this case, people will say, who cares if market share is falling, Apple makes better profits.

off topic: Are you and samcraig the same person? Just joking :-)
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 05:42 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
My post wasn't intended to insult anyone quoted. It was to answer a moderators question about users spinning numbers that don't favor Apple.
Mine favored Apple. You made me double check. In a back handed way . . . .
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 05:51 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by kjs862 View Post
I don't get these type of conversations. It's like talking about how much market share Ferrari has -- it doesn't make sense.

Apple is like Ferrari.
I get really tired of these statements. Ferrari's business model is nothing like Apple's. Apple relies on being able to ship millions of units per product line. The one real parallel is they both focus on a limited number of products. Ferrari is much more specialized though. I think only a couple of them have options for automatic transmission, and they are not ideal for driving through city traffic. Apple's focus was on what they considered the average consumer over a pretty extreme range of net worth. It's okay if you like both of those brands, but I really hope you can tell the difference.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 05:55 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
Apple's in no trouble, obviously.

Samsung's eating a great deal of the uninformed-and-new-to-smartphones market: Samsung pays more in commissions to salespeople than Apple and Coke combined spend on advertising. Apple doesn't pay commissions to salespeople to push iPhones (and no need: they sell as many as they can name).

That's not a sticky effect, though: people who over time try both platforms are very likely to stick with iOS--it's simply the better, more hassle-free experience. (I mean of course real people, the majority, not the micro-niche of techies who want a phone to be like a PC--in ways both good and bad.)

Put another way, a lot of everyday non-techie people have Samsung phones as their first smartphone because some salesperson told them something untrue or misunderstood or simply handed it to them and said "this is best." Whereas most people have iPhones by actual choice! They went to Apple.com or an Apple store, or someone trusted (not a sales rep) recommended an iPhone for real reasons, or they went to their carrier store and asked for an iPhone even while the sales staff pushed something else.
Every one that I know that has android originally had an iphone first. I thought id Always stick with ios but it got stale and boring. You think people that have Android can't get an iphone if they wanted to?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 05:55 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
These are a few examples from this thread. And there are similar results whenever a thread like this is started.
Hypocrisy is not your strong suit.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 06:58 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
These are a few examples from this thread. And there are similar results whenever a thread like this is started.
Thanks for clarifying. I hope in the future you will refrain from making similar blanket statements.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 07:59 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by dejo View Post
Thanks for clarifying. I hope in the future you will refrain from making similar blanket statements.
Is it ok if I say many here, or some here or should I quote those who have made the statements? I do not want to violate TOS.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
Hypocrisy is not your strong suit.
What I stated is true.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
Mine favored Apple. You made me double check. In a back handed way . . . .
My point was when numbers don't favor Apple, there are many people who look at the figures and say that somehow they are irrelevant, Apple makes more profit, Apple only sells one phone etc. Yet it's a big deal if it's the other way around and the numbers make Apple look good. Suddenly they are important. Again, I wasn't singling you or anyone else out on the this. Dejo called me on making a blanket statement so I gave him several examples to explain my statemment.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 08:42 PM   #120
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I never took Gartner's research numbers very seriously but this one here is a model of un-professionalism: they state Apple sold 43.4 million iPhones in Q42012 when Apple itself has released its actual numbers at 47.8 million for that period.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 09:12 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by johnny5k View Post
I'd like to see Samsung's average selling price for their phones to see how they really compare.
Last quarter Samsung's handset division had $25 billion in revenues. Using Gartner's number of 107 million phones of all types, Samsung's average selling price was $233. Not bad, considering half of those were dumb or feature phones that sell for as low as $45 in quantity, a market that Apple shuns, but which gives much of the world a chance at an affordable cell phone.

US sales figures from the California trial show that Samsung's ASP for smartphones in the US for 1Q12 was ~$340. That includes low, mid and high end models. Comes out much less than Apple's ASP which used to be over $600. (Not sure now, considering the popularity of the iPhone 4 and 4S. Have to research this.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard SG View Post
I never took Gartner's research numbers very seriously but this one here is a model of un-professionalism: they state Apple sold 43.4 million iPhones in Q42012 when Apple itself has released its actual numbers at 47.8 million for that period.
Check the label. Gartner's chart is End User sales. Apple's sales numbers include phones on retailer shelves and shipments still on the way to retailers.

.

Last edited by kdarling; Feb 13, 2013 at 09:22 PM.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:25 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by kdarling View Post
...
US sales figures from the California trial show that Samsung's ASP for smartphones in the US for 1Q12 was ~$340. That includes low, mid and high end models. Comes out much less than Apple's ASP which used to be over $600. (Not sure now, considering the popularity of the iPhone 4 and 4S. Have to research this.)

.
ASP over $600, really? Who would pay full price over US$600 to buy an unlocked iPhone from Apple? Would you?

Most smartphone customers sign up phone plan contract with little downpayment to get subsidized smartphone from phone company.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 12:57 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by mark gallagher View Post
I'm sure there will be changes on this for the first quarter for this year. Blackberry is coming back and Nokia's Windows phones are slowly gaining the interest of consumers.
Windows 8 looks ugly on PC. However the UI looks good on a cell phone LCD.

I would like to have an unlocked Windows 8 phone.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 03:55 AM   #124
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I helped Apples market share drop ever so slightly Wednesday by getting my first Android phone. I'm loving it.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 03:57 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by apple-win View Post
ASP over $600, really? Who would pay full price over US$600 to buy an unlocked iPhone from Apple? Would you?

Most smartphone customers sign up phone plan contract with little downpayment to get subsidized smartphone from phone company.
Subsidized is the word to look. You can pat upfront only $199 but the operator has paid full to Apple or Samsung.
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