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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:02 AM   #26
herr_neumann
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Since their website is down, I went for a spin around the web. This design website has me interested in the Loewe products: http://fontsinuse.com/uses/1990/loewe-tv-website

Custom TV designs? 12 different colors? 2,160 design combinations? Ok, I see why this rumor makes some sense.

Edit:
Apparently the personalization page is not down (yet): http://www.loewe.tv/int/products/ind...alization.html

Last edited by herr_neumann; Feb 13, 2013 at 11:13 AM. Reason: more info
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:12 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Acerone View Post
Isn't Loewe very high end?
It is not. Samsung is high end. Loewe is just pretentious. Those interested in the quality of Loewe TV sets can check this forum thread from our Australian friends who can buy both Loewe and Samsung.

Here are some quotes:

"I've formed the impression that Loewe have lost the plot. Their sets are adequate at best and cost way too much for the feature set they offer."

"If I have the sort of money for a Leowe TV I would go for a Samsung 60 or 64 E8000 plasma or Panasonic ST50 60"

"Don't buy the Loewe..."

"After owning loewe once I'd never buy another, picture was good while it worked though"

"I believe the assembly line is German, but that's about it. All the components are sourced elsewhere, i.e. Korea/China."
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:19 AM   #28
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Loewe makes absolutely stunning, beautiful sets. Web photos cannot do them justice, they have a long history of insanely beautiful TV's with insanely great picture quality. They used to sell in the US until about 5 years ago, when they pulled out of the US market, because most Americans are happy to buy whatever discounted Samsung/Sharp/Sony set they can get their hands on (style is secondary). Great for consumers to buy cheap displays with no margin for the manufacturer but not so good for the manufacturers. You can occasionally find a used older Loewe set in a high end A/V theater store, etc. I nearly bought one used on 3 occasions. They made a 55 inch model whose remote allowed the set to swivel to point the TV more directly at the viewer. Back in 2002 or 2003, it was the most beautiful picture you could get. They are German to the core, incredibly finicky about picture quality, and a purchase by Apple would be VERY interesting to say the least. They share design aesthetic with Apple for sure, and I could see many interesting ways to use the best display tech of Loewe and Apple-fy them if you will.

I have no insight into whether they actually buy Loewe or not, but I would love to see it. A re-factoring of Loewe tech with more attention to user interface the way that Apple always does would be very cool. They would kill in the European market where Loewe is properly appreciated already, and like a fine German automobile, they can take over country by country from there.

I'd like to see an Apple TV (with Loewe heritage/display tech) that includes the obvious stuff we all know Apple is dying to do:

-Gaming and gaming apps directly through the TV, through an Apple GameStore (fully entering the Gaming market in other words, directly against MSFT and Sony and Nintendo, with no additional hardware console required)
-Internet connected of course, but using it more wisely with things like voice-based search for content via a Siri or Siri-like interface. Searching would be across the iTunes Store, Netflix (if included), HBO, ABC, other apps directly on the TV, etc. Basically a cross-functional Search across all media (think Spotlight for the TV).
-Photo sharing that people actually use and allows for a social experience of "viewing photos" with your family/friends with voice interaction (a la Facetime)
-True multi-user movie/TV "viewing", where your social network friends can easily watch a movie "with you" virtually (a la the new Rabbit service). Here again, think Facetime functionality that connects you to your friends but then swipes to the side, out of the way once the call is established, so you can view the movie content full-screen if you want. There are ways to make this super seamless.
-time-shifting in the cloud or local DVR functionality (a la Tivo) for all content.

etc. etc.

My opinion? Apple buys Loewe, they would use very little of their overseas cash hoard to do so, it is peanuts for Apple. Most of their cash hoard is overseas anyway, so buying a European company is super easy and preferred actually over buying a US-based company, though they could clearly do that too. I'd love to see them buy Tivo and incorporate Tivo's patents in DVR technology into the new Apple TV also, but not sure they'll make that happen. I think it's an obvious purchase, but I've said that for years, and they haven't done it, so who knows.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:25 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by CptnJustc View Post
I like the rest of the setup, but... that double chin on the TV....
I believe the chin houses speakers and IR receivers but they do offer chinless versions as well. Given you can control these T.V.'s with an iPad and move from room to room while your content follows, I can see how Apple could want to align themselves for technical or patent reasons.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:32 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ManWithAPlan View Post
Loewe makes absolutely stunning, beautiful sets. Web photos cannot do them justice, they have a long history of insanely beautiful TV's with insanely great picture quality. They used to sell in the US until about 5 years ago, when they pulled out of the US market, because most Americans are happy to buy whatever discounted Samsung/Sharp/Sony set they can get their hands on (style is secondary). Great for consumers to buy cheap displays with no margin for the manufacturer but not so good for the manufacturers. You can occasionally find a used older Loewe set in a high end A/V theater store, etc. I nearly bought one used on 3 occasions. They made a 55 inch model whose remote allowed the set to swivel to point the TV more directly at the viewer. Back in 2002 or 2003, it was the most beautiful picture you could get. They are German to the core, incredibly finicky about picture quality, and a purchase by Apple would be VERY interesting to say the least. They share design aesthetic with Apple for sure, and I could see many interesting ways to use the best display tech of Loewe and Apple-fy them if you will.

I have no insight into whether they actually buy Loewe or not, but I would love to see it. A re-factoring of Loewe tech with more attention to user interface the way that Apple always does would be very cool. They would kill in the European market where Loewe is properly appreciated already, and like a fine German automobile, they can take over country by country from there.

I'd like to see an Apple TV (with Loewe heritage/display tech) that includes the obvious stuff we all know Apple is dying to do:

-Gaming and gaming apps directly through the TV, through an Apple GameStore (fully entering the Gaming market in other words, directly against MSFT and Sony and Nintendo, with no additional hardware console required)
-Internet connected of course, but using it more wisely with things like voice-based search for content via a Siri or Siri-like interface. Searching would be across the iTunes Store, Netflix (if included), HBO, ABC, other apps directly on the TV, etc. Basically a cross-functional Search across all media (think Spotlight for the TV).
-Photo sharing that people actually use and allows for a social experience of "viewing photos" with your family/friends with voice interaction (a la Facetime)
-True multi-user movie/TV "viewing", where your social network friends can easily watch a movie "with you" virtually (a la the new Rabbit service). Here again, think Facetime functionality that connects you to your friends but then swipes to the side, out of the way once the call is established, so you can view the movie content full-screen if you want. There are ways to make this super seamless.
-time-shifting in the cloud or local DVR functionality (a la Tivo) for all content.

etc. etc.

My opinion? Apple buys Loewe, they would use very little of their overseas cash hoard to do so, it is peanuts for Apple. Most of their cash hoard is overseas anyway, so buying a European company is super easy and preferred actually over buying a US-based company, though they could clearly do that too. I'd love to see them buy Tivo and incorporate Tivo's patents in DVR technology into the new Apple TV also, but not sure they'll make that happen. I think it's an obvious purchase, but I've said that for years, and they haven't done it, so who knows.
Here is an opinion from the guy who actually sold Loewe TVs in USA:

"i sold them for a few years. they did make a good CRT but it was not very bright, you needed a dark living room for it. The 38" 16:9 was based off the RCA tube but it was much better from what I saw. Those tv's had a ton of problems IMO, they once sent us a note saying that their reliability issues had been linked to a "bad forklift operator" and thats what was causing all the numerous failures. Either way, their digital displays were terrible and after that they quickly got out of the market here"
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:34 AM   #31
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I'm pretty set on the 2013 Vizio M series after seeing it at CES. It looks amazing. Vizio is really stepping up their game.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:38 AM   #32
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Help me understand.. Why would they buy this company? if:

1) Apple has (arguably) the world's best technology design team in house

2) All the technological expertise and R&D to create the appropriate display to fit their product needs (does Loewe have some sort of coveted patent that they want?)

3) They will probably manufacture their TV set in China, taking full advantage of their incredibly efficient supply chain, and wouldn't necessarily need Loewes for that.

Why do they need this company?
If this is even happening at all I think the most likely thing is that Apple would partner with Loewe to make an Apple-branded version of current designs that would be sold in the U.S. and other countries where Loewe doesn't have market presence.

Loewe did have to restructure their business plan at the end of last year due to a marked decrease in sales and overall market share in Europe. Because of this(according to the website), they've made deals with electrical companies and are looking to expand to Russia and India. They will also be laying off +/- 190 people and might end up licensing their technology and designs to other companies.

So, this might be an opportunity to license out TV design and other patents to Apple(along with other companies) to gain a worldwide TV/entertainment presence with the help of one of the best-known companies worldwide.

So I think that the real question is, is it more likely that Loewe needs Apple and Apple is finding a way to decrease its costs to manufacture and design something that is already very well designed?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:39 AM   #33
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Absolutely stunning looking TVs.
They do seem like Apple TV's could be "Inspired" by them.
And who knows, maybe they were inspired by iMacs in the first place.

But they really don't look cheap. And just imagine all that home delivery and home re-org. that will have to occur to get the full experience.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:40 AM   #34
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Didn't Tim just mention that Apple is looking for acquisitions every month? Than again I strongly believe that Foxconn is a better/cheaper supplier than Loewe would be....
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:41 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by caligomez View Post
Help me understand.. Why would they buy this company? if:

1) Apple has (arguably) the world's best technology design team in house

2) All the technological expertise and R&D to create the appropriate display to fit their product needs (does Loewe have some sort of coveted patent that they want?)

3) They will probably manufacture their TV set in China, taking full advantage of their incredibly efficient supply chain, and wouldn't necessarily need Loewes for that.

Why do they need this company?
Because Hedge funds are unhappy that apple is not blowing its cash on the balance sheet. So maybe Apple will make them happy by overpaying for acquisitions that end up providing poor returns on equity like all the other tech giants.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:41 AM   #36
ManWithAPlan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
Here is an opinion from the guy who actually sold Loewe TVs in USA:

"i sold them for a few years. they did make a good CRT but it was not very bright, you needed a dark living room for it. The 38" 16:9 was based off the RCA tube but it was much better from what I saw. Those tv's had a ton of problems IMO, they once sent us a note saying that their reliability issues had been linked to a "bad forklift operator" and thats what was causing all the numerous failures. Either way, their digital displays were terrible and after that they quickly got out of the market here"
Right, so an opinion from one person based on experience years ago is not interesting at all. They clearly were not perfect, and they had yield issues, etc. not to mention logistics problems like this with the US market in particular, etc. etc. That's not interesting. What is interesting is that none of that matters - not to a purchase like Apple, who would clean house on all these things - Apple has the best logistics in the world, trust me. They will take the best aspects of Loewe, kick the bad aspects to the curb, and re-tool to meet THEIR design goals, not some legacy person at Loewe's design goals, that's the point. Clearly you have not been around business if you think that problems from 7 years ago actually mean anything today for an acquirer the size of Apple, or for their plans to conquer this new market.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:43 AM   #37
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No. Please don't buy Loewe. All they'll do is close the factory (in Germany) and get rid of the company's heritage. No thanks.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:45 AM   #38
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Sometimes it's easier to acquire a company with top-notch employees in specialized areas than to hire for those positions. Could be that sort of play. IP could be another valid reason.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:47 AM   #39
lilo777
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Originally Posted by ManWithAPlan View Post
Right, so an opinion from one person based on experience years ago is not interesting at all. They clearly were not perfect, and they had yield issues, etc. not to mention logistics problems like this with the US market in particular, etc. etc. That's not interesting. What is interesting is that none of that matters - not to a purchase like Apple, who would clean house on all these things - Apple has the best logistics in the world, trust me. They will take the best aspects of Loewe, kick the bad aspects to the curb, and re-tool to meet THEIR design goals, not some legacy person at Loewe's design goals, that's the point. Clearly you have not been around business if you think that problems from 7 years ago actually mean anything today for an acquirer the size of Apple, or for their plans to conquer this new market.
There is no "best aspects" in any consumer electronics companies in Europe anymore. It's a dying breed. Even Philips gave up (a few weeks ago) and announced that they are leaving this market.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 11:48 AM   #40
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It can be compared to a regular Sharp TV. Because it is a Sharp panel. Plus some software tweaks that may make it look "a tad bit better" but not "insanely" better. Maybe "insanely" in Apple lingo where everything is soooo next century and awesome, but not in the real world.
The Loewe TVs I have seen, had a way better picture than anything else I've seen.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 12:01 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by ManWithAPlan View Post
Right, so an opinion from one person based on experience years ago is not interesting at all. They clearly were not perfect, and they had yield issues, etc. not to mention logistics problems like this with the US market in particular, etc. etc. That's not interesting. What is interesting is that none of that matters - not to a purchase like Apple, who would clean house on all these things - Apple has the best logistics in the world, trust me. They will take the best aspects of Loewe, kick the bad aspects to the curb, and re-tool to meet THEIR design goals, not some legacy person at Loewe's design goals, that's the point. Clearly you have not been around business if you think that problems from 7 years ago actually mean anything today for an acquirer the size of Apple, or for their plans to conquer this new market.
Plus, doesn't Loewe have a couple of data centers that would increase the range of Apple's influence and ability to provide customer's with their data? They have a big presence in the U.S(obviously) but aren't they now present in Israel, and looking to expand in China as well as places in Europe?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 12:02 PM   #42
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I remember when Loewe made top of the line CRT's. They were really expensive, but very well made.

Some of their recent designs and concepts are stunning. If Apple can nab some of these engineers and designers for $50MM, that would be a steal. These guys don't grow on trees, and having star designers work on the same product in different geos would create a healthy competitive environment that could yield impressive results.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 12:03 PM   #43
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That would be great since Loewe has TV sets with Full Picture-in-Picture (Full PiP), which requires at least two Digital Terrestrial Television (DTTV, DTT or DVB-T) tuners inside the TV set. The Full PiP feature is extremely useful for channel surfing during commercials (ie., very handy for bridging commercial breaks). After image quality, Full PiP is the most important feature of a TV for many consumers.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 12:27 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by RedCroissant View Post
Plus, doesn't Loewe have a couple of data centers that would increase the range of Apple's influence and ability to provide customer's with their data? They have a big presence in the U.S(obviously) but aren't they now present in Israel, and looking to expand in China as well as places in Europe?
I'm sure Apple doesn't need or want a Loewe datacenter, they have plenty of expertise now in building out scalable datacenters for App/iTunes store, etc. etc.or for internal Apple server farms. Apple already operates server farms in Europe already as well. Keep in mind, Apple is not new to Europe, they have offices in France, UK, Germany, etc. already. Datacenter space is a commodity, and Apple's own engineers would architect the datacenter the way they always do. Nothing to see there from a Loewe standpoint. This is not why Apple would buy them, clearly. It would be for the display tech and design, and all that creates it - including some key employees, patents, etc.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndiS. View Post
The Loewe TVs I have seen, had a way better picture than anything else I've seen.
Agreed. Even the old CRT's showed Loewe's huge lead in display tech, perhaps less so with digital, but they still have the best picture quality out there. They had trouble with execution, they dropped the ball many times in many markets, but again, Apple can fix that Day One. That's Apple's bread and butter - supply chain and operations management. There is a reason that Apple didn't just buy Sharp last year or the year before, or now, when they clearly could have easily done so, as Sharp was dying from lack of profit margins. They had their eye on something else I believe, and perhaps Loewe is what they've been eyeing.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
There is no "best aspects" in any consumer electronics companies in Europe anymore. It's a dying breed. Even Philips gave up (a few weeks ago) and announced that they are leaving this market.
Take an economics class sir - they are leaving the market because they see no profit margins anymore in this business. Because Philips can't add value to the TV viewing experience significant enough to charge for a premium TV. This is exactly why Loewe left the US market a bunch of years ago. Loewe by itself is dying a slow death as a company - because of this very fact. Apple can buy them for a song, and use their best aspects (and yes, they have good stuff, absolutely), and Apple can create a new-ish market for a premium TV, that people will pay more for. By adding the kinds of things I mentioned in my first post, and many more. Just like they did for phones, just like they did to tablets, just like they did for the iPod. It's about creating a new user experience by combining the best hardware, the best software, and the best services around it. Phillips, Sony, Loewe by itself, none of them can offer that - that's the opportunity that Apple clearly sees. Whether you do or not is of little interest to them. They are going to try and create a new market, a new experience in the living room, it's only a question of whether they can pull it off or not - that's it. iPod was not the first mp3 player, iPhone was not the first smartphone, iPad was not the first tablet. But they are the best experiences you can get today in each of those markets, and as long as that continues, Apple wins. Following the formula again into the living room is just a natural extension of what they have done many times before.

----------

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That would be great since Loewe has TV sets with Full Picture-in-Picture (Full PiP), which requires at least two Digital Terrestrial Television (DTTV, DTT or DVB-T) tuners inside the TV set. The Full PiP feature is extremely useful for channel surfing during commercials (ie., very handy for bridging commercial breaks). After image quality, Full PiP is the most important feature of a TV for many consumers.
Excellent point, PIP is one of those things that has very seldom been done right by anyone - Loewe has it nailed, big time. It's an under-appreciated thing, that Apple could enhance even further. Great point!
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 12:47 PM   #45
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Isn't Loewe very high end?
So are Apple
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:08 PM   #46
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The Loewe TVs I have seen, had a way better picture than anything else I've seen.
We happen to own two Loewes, and all I can say is that it do not notice any substantial difference compared to a Sony NX.

As someone else wrote, nothing beats a solid input signal on a HDTV. (With older tube TV sets, software could do some great enhancements through upscaling, like the Philips.) With HDTV, the quality of the panel determines the picture quality. If you put a Sharp panel in it, you will get Sharp picture quality (which I find actually to be quite good).

You can drive a Mercedes A-class and find its engine to be insanely better than a Renault - the engine remains one and the same, though. :-)

YMMV! Just my 2 cents.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:19 PM   #47
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Patents, maybe?
Patent on what? The panels are from Sharp.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:21 PM   #48
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Maybe they want the technology for the transparent TV

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...l#slide=982430
I could imagine an iMac using this technology as being right up Apple's alley.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:22 PM   #49
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That is some pretty cool looking gear!
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:24 PM   #50
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Loewe has always had decent (not necessarily great) design, but has also been prone to have reliability issues, compared with Japanese/Korean products.

I am not sure why Apple would be interested in acquiring a company which has its own design culture, which will then have to be shoehorned into Apple's. And even if the design melding is successful, Apple will have a product line with built-in maintenance issues.

Methinks it doesn't make sense, but then I don't run Apple.
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