Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Feb 17, 2013, 02:35 PM   #126
G51989
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New York State
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
The MS tribe and their sycophants call it a tablet when they want to knock the iPad (iPad is just a toy, Surface can do real work). Then it magically turns into an Ultrabook and it gets compared to a MacBook Air when someone complains about battery life, weight etc.
Well it has a better screen, keyboard, hardware, performance, OS, for about the same money, and it has a touch screen and can be used as a tablet. THe MBA is an outdated laptop with its low res screen.

Quote:
I'd low to know how many people are getting real work done using a legacy x86 application on the Surface in tablet form. Yeah using Microsoft Excel while tapping the screen with my finger or a stylus sounds like a lot of fun. Even with the type cover I can't see myself getting a lot of work done on a 10" 16:9 screen.
So X86 is now " legacy " besides the fact that its the most used in the world? By a massive margin?

Quote:
When have we ever seen the Surface pictured sans keyboard in portrait orientation (the way most people would use a tablet to read a book/magazine)? As a matter of fact we rarely see the Surface in landscape orientation with out the kickstand and keyboard attached.
That depends on the user, I own a Surface pro, its landscape mode works just fine.

Quote:
I see no real reason to buy the Surface over an Ultrabook that gets better battery life, has an adjustable screen and doesn't need to be used on a completely flat surface (can be used on your lap). What makes the Surface better than a Lenovo or Ausu touch screen Ultrabook?
Do what I did, and just buy both, its 1000 dollars, not a large amount of money.
G51989 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2013, 02:39 PM   #127
uknowimright
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
lol at the confused poster(s)
uknowimright is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2013, 02:42 PM   #128
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wisdom mule sez: there are literally zero jungles in Vermont.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
The MS tribe and their sycophants call it a tablet when they want to knock the iPad (iPad is just a toy, Surface can do real work). Then it magically turns into an Ultrabook and it gets compared to a MacBook Air when someone complains about battery life, weight etc.
I think it's because people are excited about the potential for the device, than it's current state. It doesn't mean they're a part of the "MS tribe" or a bunch of sycophants. It means they like what the Surface represents. A tablet with the power of an ultrabook.

...even if it isn't what I'd call a great tablet at the moment.

Quote:
What makes the Surface better than a Lenovo or Ausu touch screen Ultrabook?
That's my biggest question. I think the Surface is an excellent piece of hardware. It's the thinnest, lightest ultrabook yet made. Smaller and lighter than the MBA, and sports roughly the same amount of battery life.

Thing is, it's not a good tablet. 4-5 hours battery isn't long enough for a device meant to be held in your hands more often than not, and the Windows 8 is more desktop/laptop oriented OS than it is for tablets.

I see the Surface Pro as being a great proof of concept device, but isn't quite good enough to stand on its own yet. It's got potential, but as it is, it's not realized yet.

Last edited by Renzatic; Feb 17, 2013 at 02:49 PM.
Renzatic is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2013, 03:33 PM   #129
davcolley
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
I hear people talk about getting real work done with Office

What they are really saying, is that they spend all day creating different versions of the truth on spreadsheets and databases because they can not get mainframe systems to produce any meaningful information.

We all could get more work done with better designed software systems and open source software.

What? Save billions of dollars in licensing fees. In the current IT era, just not going to happen.
davcolley is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2013, 05:03 PM   #130
Rogifan
macrumors 604
 
Rogifan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I think it's because people are excited about the potential for the device, than it's current state. It doesn't mean they're a part of the "MS tribe" or a bunch of sycophants. It means they like what the Surface represents. A tablet with the power of an ultrabook.

...even if it isn't what I'd call a great tablet at the moment.



That's my biggest question. I think the Surface is an excellent piece of hardware. It's the thinnest, lightest ultrabook yet made. Smaller and lighter than the MBA, and sports roughly the same amount of battery life.

Thing is, it's not a good tablet. 4-5 hours battery isn't long enough for a device meant to be held in your hands more often than not, and the Windows 8 is more desktop/laptop oriented OS than it is for tablets.

I see the Surface Pro as being a great proof of concept device, but isn't quite good enough to stand on its own yet. It's got potential, but as it is, it's not realized yet.
For me the weight and the 4-5 hr battery life of the Surface Pro is a non starter for a tablet. Which then leads me to ask why someone would buy this over an Ultrabook that has just as good (or better specs), better battery life, better keyboard/trackpad and bigger screen.

The problem is you can't have it all right now and trying to build a device that does inevitably leads to bad compromises. I have a feeling people like the concept of what a device like the Surface could be more than the Surface itself.
__________________
"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." - William F. Buckley, Jr.
Rogifan is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2013, 05:13 PM   #131
Rogifan
macrumors 604
 
Rogifan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
Well it has a better screen, keyboard, hardware, performance, OS, for about the same money, and it has a touch screen and can be used as a tablet. THe MBA is an outdated laptop with its low res screen.
Better keyboard? Seriously? And better OS is a matter of opinion. Same as touch screen. Not everyone wants to be raising their hand to touch their notebook screen. Considering how many times I'm wiping fingerprints and smudges off my iPad I know I wouldn't want that on my laptop. Also if the Surface Pro is such a great tablet how come we rarely ever see it shown as one? It's almost always shown with the kickstand keyboard attached. I'm not sure I've ever seen Microsoft promotional material showing the Surface being used in portrait orientation. Though I suppose 16:9 is better in landscape than portrait.

I'd love Microsoft to focus on what makes this such a great productivity device. At their launch event last summer they spent most of the presentation talking about hardware design and the keyboards. And the two commercials they released didn't focus much at all on usage, other than an obsession with the click of the kickstand and keyboard attaching to the device. Lets see someone doing "real work" in photoshop, Excel, Visual Studio, etc. on this thing (with and without the keyboard since the keyboard costs extra).
__________________
"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." - William F. Buckley, Jr.
Rogifan is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2013, 06:13 PM   #132
Liquorpuki
macrumors 68000
 
Liquorpuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: City of Angels
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
For me the weight and the 4-5 hr battery life of the Surface Pro is a non starter for a tablet. Which then leads me to ask why someone would buy this over an Ultrabook that has just as good (or better specs), better battery life, better keyboard/trackpad and bigger screen.
A few years back, why did anyone buy a smartphone over a feature phone w longer battery life, PDA with a bigger screen, or a point and click camera w higher MP?

Because the benefits of convergence outweighed the drawbacks.
__________________
Ableton 9 on a Surface Pro 2, APC40, Audiobox, Yamaha KX8, Roland V-Drums HD1 + Octapad, K-Pro, Rode NT1A, MPC1000, EWI, 1200-MK5, 06-Pro
Liquorpuki is online now   3 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2013, 06:22 PM   #133
Vegastouch
macrumors 68040
 
Vegastouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Image


The iFixit team today tore apart the Microsoft Surface Pro, which began showing up in stores last week, to reveal what's inside of the PC/tablet hybrid. Microsoft has touted the Surface Pro's power and compact design, which has come at the cost of easy consumer access to the device.

As it turns out, the Surface Pro is sealed with what iFixit termed "a metric duckload" of adhesive, which took more than an hour to overcome.
Because of the adhesive, which holds both the battery and the display in place, and the more than 90 screws that hold the Surface Pro together, the tablet earned itself a repairability rating of 1/10. As TechCrunch notes, that is even less than Apple's iPad, which scored a 2/10 in repairability.

The battery is not soldered to the tablet so it is technically removable, but iFixit warns that removing the battery or upgrading the SSD might kill the tablet because of the proximity of several cables. Other highlights of the teardown include:iFixit declared some of Microsoft's choices, like the glued-in battery "completely unnecessary." Apple's products have been similarly criticized by the site in the past, such as the 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro, which also received a repairability score of 1 out of 10.

Article Link: Microsoft Surface Pro Earns Repairability Score of 1/10 from iFixit
Not sure why this is news.
Vegastouch is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2013, 06:29 PM   #134
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wisdom mule sez: there are literally zero jungles in Vermont.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
Because the benefits of convergence outweighed the drawbacks.
Exactly. Though with tablets, I don't think we've reached that point where everything is starting to gel just yet.
Renzatic is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2013, 09:00 PM   #135
AppleScruff1
macrumors 603
 
AppleScruff1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
A few years back, why did anyone buy a smartphone over a feature phone w longer battery life, PDA with a bigger screen, or a point and click camera w higher MP?

Because the benefits of convergence outweighed the drawbacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Exactly. Though with tablets, I don't think we've reached that point where everything is starting to gel just yet.
Have either of you got a chance to check out the Surface Pro yet? My local Best Buy stores are showing them as not available. I need to stop by and see if they have a display unit.
AppleScruff1 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2013, 10:46 PM   #136
G51989
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New York State
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Better keyboard? Seriously?
For me it is, both are just as cramped and awful, but I can detach my Pro's and RT's keyboard if I want, I don't have that option with an MBA.

Quote:
OS is a matter of opinion.
I find Windows 8 to be a good mix of old and new, I love it. I wish Apple didn't screw up so bad with 10.8, I loved 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6.

Quote:
Same as touch screen. Not everyone wants to be raising their hand to touch their notebook screen. Considering how many times I'm wiping fingerprints and smudges off my iPad I know I wouldn't want that on my laptop.
Thats the greatness of the Surface, you can do either or. Your not limited to one choice.

Quote:
It's almost always shown with the kickstand keyboard attached. I'm not sure I've ever seen Microsoft promotional material showing the Surface being used in portrait orientation. Though I suppose 16:9 is better in landscape than portrait.
Depends on who is using it, I use mine in both. No complaints, other than its a little bit lopslided with weight. I got over it.

Quote:
I'd love Microsoft to focus on what makes this such a great productivity device. At their launch event last summer they spent most of the presentation talking about hardware design and the keyboards
I think they are, and the hardware and keyboard I hate to say, are very good.

Quote:
And the two commercials they released didn't focus much at all on usage, other than an obsession with the click of the kickstand and keyboard attaching to the device
Like most adverts, remember those stupid U2 iPod ads? Ads never focus on real work.

Quote:
Lets see someone doing "real work" in photoshop, Excel, Visual Studio, etc. on this thing (with and without the keyboard since the keyboard costs extra).
Coudn't agree more.
G51989 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 03:23 AM   #137
Liquorpuki
macrumors 68000
 
Liquorpuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: City of Angels
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
Have either of you got a chance to check out the Surface Pro yet? My local Best Buy stores are showing them as not available. I need to stop by and see if they have a display unit.
I picked one up on Thurs from the MS Store in Glendale, CA. I got lucky - I was walking by and asked the guy when they were gonna have the 128 GB in stock. They told me they had a couple on hand and I walked out with one. I've been in Vegas all weekend so I've been setting it up and playing around with it sporadically but so far I like it a lot. Unless there's some serious engineering defect like the battery dies in a month, I'm not selling or returning it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Exactly. Though with tablets, I don't think we've reached that point where everything is starting to gel just yet.
I think for a lot of people, the Pro is already good enough to become their go-to device. But those whose usage patterns need a longer lasting battery will probably have to wait til ULV Haswell.

I'm really interested in how Apple is gonna respond. They went all in on the future of tablets being ARM chips and cheap apps. They're not gonna be able to compete head-on with a converged device like this without blowing up iOS. Tossing more storage at consumers or bragging about how much thinner they made their hardware is not gonna do much.
__________________
Ableton 9 on a Surface Pro 2, APC40, Audiobox, Yamaha KX8, Roland V-Drums HD1 + Octapad, K-Pro, Rode NT1A, MPC1000, EWI, 1200-MK5, 06-Pro
Liquorpuki is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:09 AM   #138
GermanyChris
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
I picked one up on Thurs from the MS Store in Glendale, CA. I got lucky - I was walking by and asked the guy when they were gonna have the 128 GB in stock. They told me they had a couple on hand and I walked out with one. I've been in Vegas all weekend so I've been setting it up and playing around with it sporadically but so far I like it a lot. Unless there's some serious engineering defect like the battery dies in a month, I'm not selling or returning it.



I think for a lot of people, the Pro is already good enough to become their go-to device. But those whose usage patterns need a longer lasting battery will probably have to wait til ULV Haswell.

I'm really interested in how Apple is gonna respond. They went all in on the future of tablets being ARM chips and cheap apps. They're not gonna be able to compete head-on with a converged device like this without blowing up iOS. Tossing more storage at consumers or bragging about how much thinner they made their hardware is not gonna do much.
I don't think apple will respond. People like the MBA and the iPad witnessed by this thread. We'll see office come to the iPad and thats about it.

The surface pro is a game changer that will get better as time progresses. I think it'll be nice to watch MS hit one out of the park.
GermanyChris is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:51 AM   #139
Rogifan
macrumors 604
 
Rogifan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by G51989 View Post

Like most adverts, remember those stupid U2 iPod ads? Ads never focus on real work.
What work do you need to do with an iPod?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
I don't think apple will respond. People like the MBA and the iPad witnessed by this thread. We'll see office come to the iPad and thats about it.

The surface pro is a game changer that will get better as time progresses. I think it'll be nice to watch MS hit one out of the park.
I think it remains to be seen if its a game changer or not. If we could some day get to a device that's super thin and light, has amazing battery life and the processing power to run PC apps then I might agree. Right now I couldn't see myself using the Surface Pro as a tablet very often. Too thick and heavy to use for reading books (can't wait for a thinner, lighter full size iPad) and not enough tablet optimized apps.
__________________
"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." - William F. Buckley, Jr.
Rogifan is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 07:10 AM   #140
Doc750
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
I played with the surface pro this past weekend at best buy. I like it a lot, but I think they're going to need to find a way to have a multipositional stand built in. Also they are going to need to find a way to make it have a 8-10 hour battery life and be the size of an RT.

It's a very good first gen device, I'm excited to see where they take this.

Apple will have to respond, the MacBook air will have to head in this direction, otherwise they are going to start to lose ground in the ultraportable/touch screen tablet world, like they are with their phones.
__________________
Current apple products:MPB 17, ACD 27, MBA 13, iPad2
Replaced iPhone 4S with Note 2
Replaced ATV2 with Roku 2 XS
Doc750 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 07:16 AM   #141
GermanyChris
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
What work do you need to do with an iPod?

----------



I think it remains to be seen if its a game changer or not. If we could some day get to a device that's super thin and light, has amazing battery life and the processing power to run PC apps then I might agree. Right now I couldn't see myself using the Surface Pro as a tablet very often. Too thick and heavy to use for reading books (can't wait for a thinner, lighter full size iPad) and not enough tablet optimized apps.
The issue isn't processing power it's architecture you need x86 to run desktop programs it's just that way and continue to be that way in the foreseeable future.

You don't like the fact that I dismiss Apple's i Stuff and call them iToys, the surface pro doesn't qualify for the toy distinction because it is x86 and can run all my real programs.
GermanyChris is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 07:18 AM   #142
Tech198
macrumors 68040
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Australia, Perth
The future of our world is doomed...

All this great tech stuff, just tossed out like last nights diner, simply because "We need to protect whats inside"

Don't companies know we want to repair our own stuff regardless of what they think. ?

I guess not....

I mean hard drives are have got stickers all over then, but i've en open several up..... Whats the big deal...... At least then if it get "busted" there we know why if got busted, because we were ticking around with the in-sides.

If manufactures force us to buy stuff again, just because they don't trust their customers, then its only for money.

7 month old stuff is different, its probably on it's last legs anyway. but why should i have to buy another ipad mini if i can't repair it myself ? (excluding the cost factor for repairing it yourself that is).

Similarly, the same thing for the Surface.
__________________
15" Macbook Pro i7 750Gig HD 8Gig Ram, Apple TV (3rd-Gen.), iPhone 4S 16Gig, iPad (4th-Gen.) 16Gig, Mac Mini 2.3Ghz i7 1TB HD

"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people."
Tech198 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:33 PM   #143
Rogifan
macrumors 604
 
Rogifan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
The issue isn't processing power it's architecture you need x86 to run desktop programs it's just that way and continue to be that way in the foreseeable future.

You don't like the fact that I dismiss Apple's i Stuff and call them iToys, the surface pro doesn't qualify for the toy distinction because it is x86 and can run all my real programs.
Your opinion. Plenty of other people don't consider iPhones and iPads toys. Even if the iPad is used more for consuming information than creating it doesn't make it a toy. And I still don't see the benefits of Surface Pro over a laptop because it doesn't seem practical as a tablet.
__________________
"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." - William F. Buckley, Jr.
Rogifan is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:08 PM   #144
Carouser
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
I was doing all kinds of productive things on my device. Then one day someone came up with an arbitrary definition that classified the device as a 'toy'. All of a sudden, it stopped working - I couldn't be productive on it anymore! I thought I had a device which did stuff, but as soon as it entered the 'toy' category, it couldn't do any stuff ever again!

Oops, typo, I meant to write "The Toy/Real Computer distinction is worthless, it's just a negative evaluation presented as though it were an objective difference, bravo, well done".

EDIT: And people are now saying the Surface isn't being sold as a tablet, but as a laptop? LMAO, how precious can you be.
Carouser is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:22 PM   #145
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wisdom mule sez: there are literally zero jungles in Vermont.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
I think for a lot of people, the Pro is already good enough to become their go-to device. But those whose usage patterns need a longer lasting battery will probably have to wait til ULV Haswell.
Even with all my complaints, I'm still sorta tempted to pick one up. If you want a solid, well built ultralight PC with (apparently very good) onscreen digitizer support, you could do far worse than the Pro. The thing is just slick enough to appeal to me.

...but also has enough problems to keep me away.

See, my idea of what a tablet should be has been influenced quite a bit by my time with the iPad. Yeah, it could use some more power. And yeah, the OS is a little too tightly leashed for my tastes. But it's designed from the ground up to be used specifically as a touch device. This is the Pro's biggest weakness. You've go the tablet interface sure, but all the good stuff is on the desktop, where that 10" high res screen makes everything feel way way way too small.

Having a mouse, keyboard, and stylus are nice. But these should be secondary inputs on a tablet. Tools you use when you need them. For a tablet to succeed in this day and age, it needs a touch based interface first and foremost.

And 8 hours of battery life wouldn't hurt. :P

Quote:
I'm really interested in how Apple is gonna respond. They went all in on the future of tablets being ARM chips and cheap apps. They're not gonna be able to compete head-on with a converged device like this without blowing up iOS. Tossing more storage at consumers or bragging about how much thinner they made their hardware is not gonna do much.
There's always gonna be a market for thin, light designs. Like Rogifan said above, some people just want something to read a book on. The iPad Mini is perfect for something like that. It doesn't need power. It just needs to be easy to carry and last forever and a day on a charge.

Though I'm willing to bet that at some point, we're gonna see the 10" iPad transition into something like the iPad Pro with an expanded version of iOS. I doubt it'll be x86 compatible, Apple has too much invested in ARM to just give up on it, but that doesn't mean any Apple mobile device from here on out is destined to always be low powered cheap-app spare time machines. Just as x86 chips are becoming more power efficient, ARM chips are becoming more capable as time goes on. Eventually we're going to reach a point where they're both roughly equal to each other.

When that time comes, we're going to have tablets with the power, flexibility, and capabilities of the Pro, with the weight, battery life, and touch based interface of the iPad. This is a real convergence device to me. A tablet that does everything you need it to, and does it well without any sacrifices to usability or comfort.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
Have either of you got a chance to check out the Surface Pro yet? My local Best Buy stores are showing them as not available. I need to stop by and see if they have a display unit.
I'm gonna be swinging up by the mall sometime today. I'll stop by Best Buy and see if they've got one on display.

Edit: I'm stealing this from Dr. McKay's post down in the Apple Industry forum. I hope he doesn't come up here and get pissed at me. But anyway...

The Surface Pro. Hackintoshed!



This all at once shows the strengths and weaknesses of the machine. On one hand, it's a full blown OS running on a machine only a little larger and heavier than the iPad. On the other hand, everything's TINY!

Still cool, though.

Also, this makes me wonder why the hell Apple hasn't ported the real dock over from OSX to iOS. It'd work great there.

Last edited by Renzatic; Feb 18, 2013 at 02:05 PM.
Renzatic is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:10 PM   #146
Mystic386
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by notjustjay View Post

I don't disagree with what you say about Microsoft. I do think they have lost their way in recent years, becoming too complacent and relying on sales from Office and Windows OS licenses to keep afloat while they try and fail to stay relevant. The Zune was a disaster. Vista was a disaster. XBOX360 is popular but only in spite of its constant hardware issues. Steve Ballmer is a constant embarrassment almost every time he opens his mouth.

But, maybe they're turning around. Windows 8 is actually pretty decent. The Surface RT has flaws (and Surface Pro even more so) but there are some glimmers of a really good thing, if they take it in the right direction, the "rev B" or "rev C" Surface could actually be very interesting.
And for me this is the point. They're first cut just doesn't look good. Times have changed. There was a time where industrial designers were needed for design and prototyping. Now even a hobbyist can do it. They've had good models for product in front of them (Apple products). Samsung have seen what Apple have done and copied their style in packaging, plugs, advertising, look and feel. And they've done an outstanding job of getting what consumers want.

MS have missed that. It's still old school where the inside looks like it was put together by an engineer. MS need to lift their game. And believe me I want someone to life their game to keep Apple sharp. Right now it appears that MS won't be it.

When I consider his at a deeper level I realise MS have created a mediocre product. And I don't mean mediocre in a small way. I believ they've done it in a big way. So it's an accumulation of factors.

This leads me to believe there is something seriously wrong up at MS. From the outside it looks like Steve Ballmer has total control and drives products that he fancies and that there is a lack of imagination of what can be let alone an understanding what is now.

I hope this helps make it clearer. MS shouldn't be producing product like this in this day and age.
Mystic386 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:25 PM   #147
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wisdom mule sez: there are literally zero jungles in Vermont.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic386 View Post
It's still old school where the inside looks like it was put together by an engineer.
What are the insides supposed to look like?
Renzatic is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:50 PM   #148
GermanyChris
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Your opinion. Plenty of other people don't consider iPhones and iPads toys. Even if the iPad is used more for consuming information than creating it doesn't make it a toy. And I still don't see the benefits of Surface Pro over a laptop because it doesn't seem practical as a tablet.
Hence the term I in my statement.
GermanyChris is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 05:52 PM   #149
AppleScruff1
macrumors 603
 
AppleScruff1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Even with all my complaints, I'm still sorta tempted to pick one up. If you want a solid, well built ultralight PC with (apparently very good) onscreen digitizer support, you could do far worse than the Pro. The thing is just slick enough to appeal to me.

...but also has enough problems to keep me away.

See, my idea of what a tablet should be has been influenced quite a bit by my time with the iPad. Yeah, it could use some more power. And yeah, the OS is a little too tightly leashed for my tastes. But it's designed from the ground up to be used specifically as a touch device. This is the Pro's biggest weakness. You've go the tablet interface sure, but all the good stuff is on the desktop, where that 10" high res screen makes everything feel way way way too small.

Having a mouse, keyboard, and stylus are nice. But these should be secondary inputs on a tablet. Tools you use when you need them. For a tablet to succeed in this day and age, it needs a touch based interface first and foremost.

And 8 hours of battery life wouldn't hurt. :P



There's always gonna be a market for thin, light designs. Like Rogifan said above, some people just want something to read a book on. The iPad Mini is perfect for something like that. It doesn't need power. It just needs to be easy to carry and last forever and a day on a charge.

Though I'm willing to bet that at some point, we're gonna see the 10" iPad transition into something like the iPad Pro with an expanded version of iOS. I doubt it'll be x86 compatible, Apple has too much invested in ARM to just give up on it, but that doesn't mean any Apple mobile device from here on out is destined to always be low powered cheap-app spare time machines. Just as x86 chips are becoming more power efficient, ARM chips are becoming more capable as time goes on. Eventually we're going to reach a point where they're both roughly equal to each other.

When that time comes, we're going to have tablets with the power, flexibility, and capabilities of the Pro, with the weight, battery life, and touch based interface of the iPad. This is a real convergence device to me. A tablet that does everything you need it to, and does it well without any sacrifices to usability or comfort.

----------



I'm gonna be swinging up by the mall sometime today. I'll stop by Best Buy and see if they've got one on display.

Edit: I'm stealing this from Dr. McKay's post down in the Apple Industry forum. I hope he doesn't come up here and get pissed at me. But anyway...

The Surface Pro. Hackintoshed!



This all at once shows the strengths and weaknesses of the machine. On one hand, it's a full blown OS running on a machine only a little larger and heavier than the iPad. On the other hand, everything's TINY!

Still cool, though.

Also, this makes me wonder why the hell Apple hasn't ported the real dock over from OSX to iOS. It'd work great there.
I checked out the Surface Pro when I went by Staples today. It was hard to get a true assessment as they had it chained down with alarm cables, electrified fence with razor wire and a mine field for good measure. I couldn't pick it up more than a few inches so I couldn't hold it as one would hold a tablet to get a feel for the weight. It is obviously heavier and thicker than an iPad but lighter than an ultrabook. The screen resolution is amazing. It was also amazingly small. I went into settings and changed it to the largest text and that made it bearable. This is definitely for in close use. The problem is you can't pinch to zoom when you are in Windows settings etc, so it takes some finesse to do things by touch. But the screen looks great.

I think they did a nice job on the design and it was snapping for the limited playtime I had. I like the type cover much better than the touch cover. I can only image that this thing will get better and better. I think the potential is great. Like you have said, 8 hour battery life and making it lighter and thinner would be huge. We'll see what Haswell brings. Kudos to Microsoft for pushing the envelope and innovating with this product. Check it out. I think you'll like it.
AppleScruff1 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:24 PM   #150
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wisdom mule sez: there are literally zero jungles in Vermont.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
I checked out the Surface Pro when I went by Staples today. It was hard to get a true assessment as they had it chained down with alarm cables, electrified fence with razor wire and a mine field for good measure. I couldn't pick it up more than a few inches so I couldn't hold it as one would hold a tablet to get a feel for the weight.
You didn't brave the mine field? Ha! You wuss.

Just like I said, I stopped by Best Buy to check it out. Unfortunately, they only got 3 units in, and had already sold them off. Didn't even have a display available to look at. So I had to settle with checking out the RT.

...it was pretty alright. It's about as thin and light as my iPad, and it's got a nice feel to it. All those people who complained about the weight must be octogenarians with serious bone deficiencies or something. I could easily hold it for a couple of hours before my arm would get tired. And the touch/type keyboard covers? I wish I could say I got to play with one, but my local BB didn't have one attached to their demo model. Damn shame, because I really wanted to see how well they worked.

And the kickstand really does make a nice "skik" sound. It was rad. :O

The only downside to the whole experience was that it does take longer than it should to launch apps. Even something as simple as the mail app takes a good 5-6 seconds to open. That's way too damn long. I wouldn't even want to think how long it'd take to open up a heavier app like Netflix, which takes a good bit even on the usually pretty speedy iPad.

If the Pro is a slightly thicker, slightly heavier version of the RT, then I can say it's at least a well built machine. I'm tempted to pick one up, but...

...I think I'm gonna wait for Haswell before I do. I really want that extra battery life.
Renzatic is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:53 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC