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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:20 PM   #26
slffl
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I agree 100% I said years before the app store came out that games should cost no more than $20. I hope Apple creates a powerful TV appliance and we finally get reasonably priced games and cut out these publishers.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:20 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Not with the current graphics. Arm graphics are still much slower. You have to realize that the xbox and other gaming consoles have 10-20 times the power envelope to use. They aren't using 1-2 watt chips they are using 30-60+ watt chips that are much faster.

Heres a powervr sgx 545 (apple tv has a 543) vs an intel hd4000 which itself is much slower than the xbox class graphics.
Image
While the PS3/X360 is faster than the iPad, the difference is no where near 10-20x. Those benches are not really fair (atom vs i5) and there have been complaints about driver quality with the SGX in Windows.

Carmack estimated that the iPad2 was about half as fast as the current consoles. So a quad core A6 with an improved graphics core should be able to complete with the current consoles quite nicely, if not over take them.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:21 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by jeremiah256 View Post
Sony, especially, could strike back by using their media empire to hurt iTunes by removing their music and movies.
Movies, maybe. Removing Sony's music from the #1 music retail outlet in the US would hurt Sony more than Apple.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:22 PM   #29
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I would definitely buy some games to play a bit on my TV, especially if they were offered at the similar prices we currently pay for iOS games.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:22 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
I've been saying exactly this for a long time. There needs to be an Apple TV App Store filled with apps that use your iphone or iPad as a controller. It would be HUGE. I think it's exactly the boost apple needs right now. That and a completely revamped iOS 7
Apple had a record last quarter, and they need a 'boost'? Still don't get it.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:22 PM   #31
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yup

Apple TV would destroy consoles IF game streaming services like onlive went on it but with a real selection of games, not native and you could connect bluetooth controllers.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:23 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Not with the current graphics. Arm graphics are still much slower. You have to realize that the xbox and other gaming consoles have 10-20 times the power envelope to use. They aren't using 1-2 watt chips they are using 30-60+ watt chips that are much faster.

Heres a powervr sgx 545 (apple tv has a 543) vs an intel hd4000 which itself is much slower than the xbox class graphics.
Image
Does that specific gpu chip have 4 cores ?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:24 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Not with the current graphics. Arm graphics are still much slower. You have to realize that the xbox and other gaming consoles have 10-20 times the power envelope to use. They aren't using 1-2 watt chips they are using 30-60+ watt chips that are much faster.

Heres a powervr sgx 545 (apple tv has a 543) vs an intel hd4000 which itself is much slower than the xbox class graphics.
Image
specs are irrelevant to many people, just the result. You can make good looking games on iPhone/ipad now, so whatever they would release would probably be even more powerful than that, which is more than good enough for many games and people. Sure, it might not be able to do quite as complex a render as a console, but they won't have to work too hard to be able to own 1080p60. I don't see a problem unless they bust out with a 4k TV... which i'm hoping they do somehow. 1080p is pathetic. any true gamer should be gaming on a PC at higher resolutions than that anyway.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:24 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ChrisTX View Post
There are certain games that just cant be enjoyed on iOS, and Android like they can on the xbox, and Playstation.
You're right. The interfaces are different - touch screen vs. controller.

This is the same way that computer games are different from consoles. The input method of keyboard and mouse allows greater interaction than a controller.

Apple just has to allow any bluetooth controllers just like they have allowed bluetooth keyboards, and they have all input devices covered. (A player would use an iPad/iPhone with Airplay for the touch input)

Just make the hardware on par with the XBox 720 and Playstation 4, open up an Appstore, and this would be a real competitor.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:25 PM   #35
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Ya, right. Angry Birds will replace games like Battlefield. Haha
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:25 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by roxxette View Post
Destroy casual gaming maybe, i can totally see eating nintendos market but doubt it will take any share from the xbox and playstation market.
They've already have bitten into the big 3 gaming giants profits. If apple were to release 2 versions of their apple tv or even just open up the current version to games, console gaming would literally disappear within the next 2-3 years. The hardware they have out now is capable of doing a pretty good job, but its not just the graphics that drive game sales. Apple's app market model is exactly what consumers want. You pay $.99 - $4.99 for a game and then download it to your device. If they implemented an external hdd via USB or thunderbolt it would be game over. Of course controllers via bluetooth would be possible, even if not the fact they have keyboard support means the icade and 8bitty would work regardless. Or you could use your phone as a controller. Imo with the phones built in accelerometer and touch interface that would be a perfect combination for most games other than FPS. Its not about what is out there now is what developers can do with the tools they are given. If you give developers an ATV3 with an iphone controller, the results would be amazing.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:26 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by slffl View Post
I agree 100% I said years before the app store came out that games should cost no more than $20. I hope Apple creates a powerful TV appliance and we finally get reasonably priced games and cut out these publishers.
"Reasonably priced games" probably also means "very simple games." I love running games, for example, but Jetpack Joyride and Temple Run 2 have essentially one board with repetitive missions built in to keep you playing. If games are limited to $10 and under, we'll probably see a lot more of that and a lot less of the complex world-exploring games I also like.

I agree with the poster above who said an aTV + app store would destroy Nintendo, but the market will probably fragment into casual gaming (aTV) and hardcore gaming (PS and Xbox) market segments.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:26 PM   #38
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An Apple "TV" that is capable of competing with Microsoft's XBox would NOT be worth $100. Keep dreaming.
I never said it needs to compete in terms of graphics. Look the A6X processor definitely competes with Xbox 360 and PS3. I understand PS4 for Xbox 720 will crush A6X or even A7X but how about say... A12X or A13X in 5-6 years? An ARM based chip will always be cost effective. Plus with the Apple TV they don't need to care about power efficiency. They can overclock it as much as they want and put as many cores of CPU and GPU as they want.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:27 PM   #39
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Not with the current graphics. Arm graphics are still much slower. You have to realize that the xbox and other gaming consoles have 10-20 times the power envelope to use. They aren't using 1-2 watt chips they are using 30-60+ watt chips that are much faster.

Heres a powervr sgx 545 (apple tv has a 543) vs an intel hd4000 which itself is much slower than the xbox class graphics.
Image
Its not about having great graphics anymore its about fun games. I still play Mike Tysons Punch out on my phone because its a fun game even though its 8 bit. People haven't made Angry Birds a household name because its got great graphics, people want to play things that are fun and interactive and independant developers are good at that. The only issue is console games are designed to play for hours, iOS games are designed to be played for minutes and that may or may not translate well to TV however I am sure developers can change that by making longer, more complex games (not graphically more complex)
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:28 PM   #40
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I love how they try to throw gaming into one huge category. Mobile games are huge because people get bored and need to waste 5 minutes here and 10 minutes there. This is not the same as sitting down and playing hours of content. My mom and dad are always playing their little $5 handheld poker/whatever games. Are they mobile gamers? Should they just be considered gamers?

Phones games are a step above those $5 handhelds and shouldn't be put in the same category. People make a choice to sit down in front of their TV's to play a game for extended periods of times. People play angry birds when what they're out doing is boring them to death.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:29 PM   #41
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An Apple TV with iOS and ARM chipset can be a next generation console as much as an iPad with iOS and an ARM chipset can be a computer.

Like everything with iOS - it only works if you apply the lowest common denominator to what you are "replacing" with it.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:30 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
I've been saying exactly this for a long time. There needs to be an Apple TV App Store filled with apps that use your iphone or iPad as a controller. It would be HUGE. I think it's exactly the boost apple needs right now. That and a completely revamped iOS 7
Brilliant!

But the Apple TV does not have a lot of storage.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:30 PM   #43
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I agree that the AppleTV has a lot of potential with Apps. I might even download some games like Tiny Wings or Angry Birds. That would be a large upgrade which would be welcomed by many.

A competitor with Xbox? Not really.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:31 PM   #44
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No. He's wrong.

As long as the ATV has mobile hardware, it's useless as a real console. It'd need a much more beefy GPU, CPU, storage, RAM, etc to even begin.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:31 PM   #45
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IMO the problem with consoles is multi-fold.

First you have the interface. The xbox 360 and ps3 interfaces are horrible. Apple has a very simple interface on the latest apple tv iOS, you just add apps to the main screen.

The second problem is boot up time. It takes nearly 5 minutes to boot my xbox 360 or ps3 and get into a game. I don't have the time or patience to deal with this sort of thing anything. I don't devote days to gaming anymore. I have a few minutes to play and then the kids or the wife wants to watch something on the tv and i'm screwed until they goto bed. Well i was screwed before i got my iPad

The 3rd problem is price. I don't want to pay $59.99 for games and have a physical dvd or bluray disc laying around. The pets and children do not understand how delicate they are. I'd much rather buy a game for $.99 - $4.99 then buy one for $59.99 and not like it. I can afford to buy 12-30 games and not like them all, and that's highly unlikely to happen.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:32 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by newdeal View Post
Its not about having great graphics anymore its about fun games. I still play Mike Tysons Punch out on my phone because its a fun game even though its 8 bit. People haven't made Angry Birds a household name because its got great graphics, people want to play things that are fun and interactive and independant developers are good at that. The only issue is console games are designed to play for hours, iOS games are designed to be played for minutes and that may or may not translate well to TV however I am sure developers can change that by making longer, more complex games (not graphically more complex)
On consoles, its all about the graphics. You cant take the mobile gaming market and slap it in the same category as the console gaming market, they are a completely different ballgame.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:33 PM   #47
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Brilliant!

But the Apple TV does not have a lot of storage.
Why can't they add a usb port to allow for external hdds?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:33 PM   #48
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AppleTV should've left the "hobby" stage... 2 years ago.
agree....not sure why there weren't more aggressive in this area. it was ripe for the taking and they were ahead of the game for years. they'll still make a killing because of the eco system but they would have been leaps and bounds ahead of everyone if they had just done this a few years ago.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:33 PM   #49
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If these guys don't beat them there firstů

http://www.ouya.tv
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:33 PM   #50
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An iPod touch connected to a TV with the AV cable brings the app functionality to the screen in the way the article wants. Most of those components are already inside the Apple TV (the iPod touch screen and battery are not needed, so very little is missing), so it is not a big leap to see it happening. I'm surprised it hasn't already.

An Apple controller, or and Apple standard that anyone can build to, is the only missing component.

I'd love to create games for an Apple TV that allows developer access.
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