Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:08 PM   #101
jwm2
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
And what 'cord' needs cutting with a console? Sure the Xbox has Xbox Gold membership, but the PS3 has no subscription.

Also, what difference is there if you buy a game from an AppStore or a shop? You're still paying for the game, you're not getting any sort of contractual discount like you do with Netflix vs Satellite.

Hardly a comparison really is it.
The point was i don't need another console if its built into a box i aleady have connected to my tv. And if they come out with a newer version due to the fact i already love the current version, i'm more likely to buy 4 of them. I actually have 4 apple tvs and 4 rokus in my home right now. Each tv has 2 devices, 1 roku and one apple tv. The roku's were bought before apple tvs could be jailbroken, so they mainly are just there because i'm too lazy to go around and collect them. But we've been using set top boxes for years and wouldn't dream of going back to satellite tv or connecting another unit to our entertainment system just to play games. The point is if apple makes apps available for the apple tv then thats fewer consoles that will be sold to folks like myself who actually bought 4 of them the last generation. I personally don't see myself buying a single next generation console and for the last 30+ years i've bought them ALL.
__________________
Handmade Natural Skin Care Products for Geeks (owned and operated by my wife)
Xbox 360 Controller Mods (owned and operated since 2001)
jwm2 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:09 PM   #102
7thson
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Six Rivers, CA
I guess this guy isn't the kind of developer that Steve Balmer was getting all worked up about on stage that one time. Apple should do this, just to make the veins on Balmer's forehead throb.
7thson is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:12 PM   #103
TheHateMachine
macrumors 6502a
 
TheHateMachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
If that were the case, why are we not seeing all console games being ported in full to iOS? Instead we see cut down, poor gfx games.
Yea, and what most of these people who spout this fail to realise is that all the graphically intense games mostly seem to be games on rails. If they allow more freedom then certain cuts have to be made... like lower res textures, laughable low polygon counts or just plain running the game at a lower resolution and "upscaling it".

Besides graphics aren't everything. Add in the fact that the gameplay is laughable simple in these mobile games, the simple story and forgettable lore and it really showcases the limited budget of these dev games. The only mobile game I can think of off the top of my head that actually made me prioritize playing it over my PC or console was Civilzation Revolutions. Even then the short comings of that bastardized version of Civ led me to shelve it after a month.
__________________
I own stuff that is cool and fits my needs.
TheHateMachine is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:13 PM   #104
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm2 View Post
The point was i don't need another console if its built into a box i aleady have connected to my tv. And if they come out with a newer version due to the fact i already love the current version, i'm more likely to buy 4 of them. I actually have 4 apple tvs and 4 rokus in my home right now. Each tv has 2 devices, 1 roku and one apple tv. The roku's were bought before apple tvs could be jailbroken, so they mainly are just there because i'm too lazy to go around and collect them. But we've been using set top boxes for years and wouldn't dream of going back to satellite tv or connecting another unit to our entertainment system just to play games. The point is if apple makes apps available for the apple tv then thats fewer consoles that will be sold to folks like myself who actually bought 4 of them the last generation. I personally don't see myself buying a single next generation console and for the last 30+ years i've bought them ALL.
Why are you even in this discussion then?

You're basically dismissing all future consoles just because you personally dont want them, and ergo they must be a poor choice for everyone.

The Apple TV is not an option for people who enjoy 'real' games, games that rely on good graphics (take a game of Formula 1 - that is 100% about graphics. Poor graphics = a poor game in a lot more cases than you may think.
rmwebs is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:13 PM   #105
Jamez1502
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Manchester, UK
The thing thats driven gaming up to now (for the most part) is graphics capabilities. The apple TV which is getting smaller and cheaper just isn't capable of churning out graphics at the level gamers want it, so for now I think the console market is pretty safe.
Jamez1502 is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:13 PM   #106
Muscle Master
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
It's nothing like grabbing a few beers and sitting in front of your 65 inch plasma and playing your Xbox and winning, arguing, losing with friends over Xbox Live.. from Madden to Halo
__________________
Apple Macbook Pro Retina '13 (Late 2012)
OS X Mountain Lion / Intel Core i5-3210M @ 3.1GHz / 8GB DDR3 1600MHz / Retina Display @ 2560x1600 / 128GB Solid State Drive | Apple iPhone 5S
Muscle Master is offline   7 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:14 PM   #107
yakapo
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Destroy the xbox / ps3 market? I doubt it. Steal 25%-35% of their market? Very possible.

I bought a rayman game for my wife's ipad. I played it 30 min. and then deleted it. I probably will never install it again. $3 - no big deal. I think the same game (or something similar) is $40 for the vita.

Now that the next gen xbox and ps4 are possibly eliminating the ability to play used games, there is a gaping hole in the console market for Apple to fill. Not everyone wants to spend $60 on a new console game. I think I bought 2 games for my ps3. It's primarily used as a blu ray player. I seriously doubt I'm getting the ps4. If the new xbox doesn't let you play used games I won't be buying it either. Now if apple makes a video game console / apple tv product, I'd pick it up w/o hesitation.
__________________
Memorable tech - C64, 486 DX2, Palmpilot, Compaq Ipaq...
yakapo is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:16 PM   #108
mchart
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHateMachine View Post
Yea, and what most of these people who spout this fail to realise is that all the graphically intense games mostly seem to be games on rails. If they allow more freedom then certain cuts have to be made... like lower res textures, laughable low polygon counts or just plain running the game at a lower resolution and "upscaling it".

Besides graphics aren't everything. Gameplay is laughable simple in these mobile games and the story/lore really showcase the limited budget of these dev games. The only mobile game I can think of off the top of my head that actually made me prioritize playing it over my PC or console was Civilzation Revolutions. Even then the short comings of that bastardized version of Civ led me to shelve it after a month.
You've just unknowingly responded with an answer to your own dissent.

The mobile platform(s) such as iOS suffer from low budgets, and an input method that makes it difficult to make traditional games for.

If Apple made an Apple TV with an A6X, a controller, and lots of storage - You'd see more publishers and developers start pushing real AAA titles. The issue is not one of hardware prowess. You can tell yourself this all you want - It doesn't make it so.
mchart is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:20 PM   #109
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
Destroy the xbox / ps3 market? I doubt it. Steal 25%-35% of their market? Very possible.

I bought a rayman game for my wife's ipad. I played it 30 min. and then deleted it. I probably will never install it again. $3 - no big deal. I think the same game (or something similar) is $40 for the vita.

Now that the next gen xbox and ps4 are possibly eliminating the ability to play used games, there is a gaping hole in the console market for Apple to fill. Not everyone wants to spend $60 on a new console game. I think I bought 2 games for my ps3. It's primarily used as a blu ray player. I seriously doubt I'm getting the ps4. If the new xbox doesn't let you play used games I won't be buying it either. Now if apple makes a video game console / apple tv product, I'd pick it up w/o hesitation.
Your post just made me have a quick think.

The Wii market would probably be killed by an AppStore being shoved on the AppleTV. Most Wii games are pretty simple, generally 'dumb' games by console standards, and most of them (at least the Nintendo made ones) would be perfectly suited for something like the ATV. The family game market that the Wii covers is pretty small, but would probably be something Apple could take on.

Apple TV wont ever have squat on the likes of the Xbox and Playstation.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchart View Post
You've just unknowingly responded with an answer to your own dissent.

The mobile platform(s) such as iOS suffer from low budgets, and an input method that makes it difficult to make traditional games for.

If Apple made an Apple TV with an A6X, a controller, and lots of storage - You'd see more publishers and developers start pushing real AAA titles.
Yes they would. But the graphics and performance would still be an issue.

It's not the storage that's the problem, in a lot of cases its the performance. Because the development API's are so locked down, it makes it hard to memory manage your apps, Ever played X-Plane on your iPad? It suffers from this problem quite noticeably.
rmwebs is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:20 PM   #110
jchase2057
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Detroit
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm2 View Post
Well see thats the thing. Some people think its all about the graphics, but in reality its not, its about the experience.
Didn't Mr. CEO just say this?
__________________
MacBook 1.83 Core Duo
1GB RAM
180GB Intel 530 Series SSD
OS X 10.6.8
jchase2057 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:21 PM   #111
Daws001
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
A standard gaming controller by Apple would be a epic. I have dreams of my iPad becoming a portable console some day. Just need that damn controller.
Daws001 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:22 PM   #112
TMar
macrumors 68000
 
TMar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ky
Send a message via Yahoo to TMar Send a message via Skype™ to TMar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm2 View Post
I've been a console gamer all of my life. I've owned every console and handheld since the Atari 2600. Remember the virtual boy? Game gear? Turbo Express? Turbo Grafix 16? Neo Geo AES? Sega Saturn? So i'm well aware of what consoles are, in fact it kind of ties into my day job (signature). I'm well aware of where the console market is heading and what will happen next. I'm also aware that someone as hardcore as myself now prefers to play games on his iPad vs the xbox 360, ps3 and nintendo wii which are collecting dust. My daughters have a nintendo wii in their bedroom (it never gets played), they also own several nintendo ds handhelds and a psp(those don't get played either). Do you know what i bought my oldest daughter for christmas? An iPad mini, my youngest daughter still plays her iPod touch and borrows her mom's iPad as she is still too young to have one of her own. If someone like me can change their spots then it means the market is pivoting.
Yes, I owned all of them growing up. First computer game (if you don't count programmed commodore 64 ones) was mech warrior. Heretic, doom and was running quake MP in the computer lab at school. I have all the current consoles collecting dust because I tend to PC game most of the time. I mobile game often because it's easy to pick up and put down when I'm out or during commercials or watching shows the other half likes. Not because the market is pivoting but because I can't consciously devote time to sit down and have that be the one thing I'm doing.

Like I said my parents are all ways playing their $5 handheld poker/whatever games, should they be considered gamers? It's two completely different thought processes that go into having a game be that one thing your doing or wasting a few minutes on a game while doing something else. Your kids aren't gamers. My parents aren't gamers. My other half with whatever iOS game she's been playing isn't a gamer. She wastes many hours a day with her different story game (farm, pet, whatever) while at work or watching TV. Make a conscious choice to do that on the TV instead of watching something is not something she would do.

Moral of the story is the mobile gaming and 'gaming' (console or PC) is two completely different things. Two completely different groups of people (there is some overlap). Most people aren't moving from one camp to the other.
__________________
I wish more wireless service provider owners posted here so talk about tethering would be taboo too.
.....Theft is Theft....
TMar is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:26 PM   #113
mozumder
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Apps on Apple TV will largely be useless

People actually pay for good content, which is why they'll pay for a $300 xBox.

Remember most people bought iPhones not to play Angry birds, but to use as phones with a web browser/email. No one buys iPhones to play games. There is very little value in the portable gaming market. It's all niche content.

An Apple TV with low-quality games will be competing against xBox with games developed with hundred million dollar budgets.. there's going to be no question which one people are going to pick.

An AppleTV with games will end up being like the Wii, which is pretty much dead.
mozumder is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:31 PM   #114
epmatsw
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by mozumder View Post
People actually pay for good content, which is why they'll pay for a $300 xBox.

Remember most people bought iPhones not to play Angry birds, but to use as phones with a web browser/email. No one buys iPhones to play games. There is very little value in the portable gaming market. It's all niche content.

An Apple TV with low-quality games will be competing against xBox with games developed with hundred million dollar budgets.. there's going to be no question which one people are going to pick.

An AppleTV with games will end up being like the Wii, which is pretty much dead.
Reality has a Wii bias
__________________
MBP|OSX 10.10|C2D 2.26 ghz|8GB RAM|500GB HD+120GB SSD
iPhone 5|iOS8
epmatsw is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:37 PM   #115
lilcosco08
macrumors 65816
 
lilcosco08's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dayton
So basically an Ouya
__________________
iPhone 4s 16gb- iPad Mini 32gb
Steam ID: lilcosco - 3DS FC: 1547-5234-4748
lilcosco08 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:46 PM   #116
SAD*FACED*CLOWN
macrumors 65816
 
SAD*FACED*CLOWN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm2 View Post
Really? Retailers would fight it? Guess what those same retailers are being done in by this next generation of consoles that won't be capable of playing used games. Halo or Black Ops on a mobile platform? Theres already several games that replicate those to an extent on the mobile platform for a fraction of the price. The real dealbreaker will be when nintendo stops making hardware and releases mario for iOS. Its coming, trust me.
we'll see, old Japanese companies tend to die hard...nothing will ever replace the sensation of firing up your xbox or playstation after just getting back from gamestop and ripping off that shribk wrap....I know apple has digitized music but there's a reason retailers still sale discs and records on wax...because people want them
__________________
"people like to feed pigeons, but try to shoot eagles"
SAD*FACED*CLOWN is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:47 PM   #117
SmileyBlast!
macrumors 6502a
 
SmileyBlast!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm2 View Post
Why can't they add a usb port to allow for external hdds?
I was hoping they could use your network area storage on your Gigabit LAN for storage.

That way they don't have to add any new hardware and my old gen 2 TV will be game/app ready.
I think the TV only has 8 GBs.
SmileyBlast! is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:47 PM   #118
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by epmatsw View Post
IMO you cant compare a Wii to the Xbox 360 and PS3. Different games, different market, etc.

The Wii is a 'family gaming' console. The other two are 'heavy gaming' consoles.
rmwebs is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:48 PM   #119
herr_neumann
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Francisco
Send a message via AIM to herr_neumann
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMar View Post
Again no. It's a convince thing. You're out and bored, it's easy to play a game for 5 minutes. Those same people are not going to make a conscious choice to sit in front of a TV and do the same thing let alone do it for an extended period of time. Mobile gaming is what you do to waste time when you're doing other things. Console gaming is a conscious choice to sit and just do that. The people who only mobile game, if sitting in front of a TV, will choose to watch TV rather than play games.
Are you saying currently there is not a casual game market for consoles? If so, is that not a huge untapped market? Small games I can come back to when I have 10-15 min to kill.

I have a Wii, PS3 and XBox 360, but hardly using anything but the PS3 and generally that is for streaming Hulu. I wish I had the time to spend a few hours at a time progressing through a game like I used to, but I don't.
herr_neumann is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:48 PM   #120
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmileyBlast! View Post
I was hoping they could use your network area storage on your Gigabit LAN for storage.

That way they don't have to add any new hardware and my old gen 2 TV will be game/app ready.
I think the TV only has 8 GBs.
Game performance when the game is stored on a NAS would be horribly slow.
rmwebs is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:48 PM   #121
stu.h
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Midlands, England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Satori View Post
Do what?
Allow other apps to run on the ATV3+ so a JB solution can be found
stu.h is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:49 PM   #122
SAD*FACED*CLOWN
macrumors 65816
 
SAD*FACED*CLOWN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
It's nothing like grabbing a few beers and sitting in front of your 65 inch plasma and playing your Xbox and winning, arguing, losing with friends over Xbox Live.. from Madden to Halo
this
__________________
"people like to feed pigeons, but try to shoot eagles"
SAD*FACED*CLOWN is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:50 PM   #123
Mabus51
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
A lot of people don't realize that after the first update it costs $32,000 to submit another update for an X-Box game or even a Playstation game. Some indie devs have taken some serious heat for not updating their games. It simply boils down to the cost of doing so. I have to agree that this idea of recertification is not only dated but just not as cost effective to smaller developers. I'd much rather give 30% profit of sales than outright paying $32,000 to fix a glitch or add/change something to a game.
Mabus51 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:51 PM   #124
LagunaSol
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Way to take it out of context. He said there's no chance at the price of 500 dollars subsidized (for 4gb model) which is what it started at. Apple soon lowered it to 200.
Irrelevant. The point is he didn't foresee any major Apple incursion into the mobile phone market. Just like the commenter I responded to can't foresee any major Apple incursion into TV-based gaming.

I wouldn't bet against Apple.
LagunaSol is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:56 PM   #125
herr_neumann
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Francisco
Send a message via AIM to herr_neumann
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Games like LA Noire for example take up 16GB Space minimum. Distributing games like that over an AppStore is just not feasible.

There's too many things that Apple would have to overcome. The filesizes (and no, dumbing down the games is not the right way to go, and people wouldn't accept that).

Realistically the only way Apple could do it is with technology such as onlive.
And why do you need all 16GB at once? An initial dl of ~1GB (arbitrary number, 500MB? I don't know what the right number is.) with background 50-100MB downloads as you progress seems to be a logical way to get around this. Why store data you do not need?
herr_neumann is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Google Working on Game Console to Compete with Future Apple Gaming Threat MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 246 Jul 18, 2013 07:00 AM
Could Disney be working with Apple on a new Gaming Console Called Toy Box? gto55 Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion 3 Jan 6, 2013 04:14 PM
Do you think apple will ever launch their own games console to compete with the xbox Nerdy Keith Mac and PC Games 20 Jun 24, 2012 02:03 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC