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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:01 PM   #76
zorinlynx
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Requiring accessory makers to be licensed and using authentication chips can be a good thing. it keeps phones from being ruined due to people using cheap, crappy China-special accessories.

I've already heard of people having unlicensed lightning plugs break off inside their phones and become stuck permanently in there.

HOWEVER.. Apple could do a lot better. They could make the licensing free or really cheap, so if ANY company (including the China-specials) want to make accessories, they can as long as they follow the rules.

Charging a large fee proves Apple is doing this for its own gain, and not for a "better customer experience".

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Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
Why is it not worth it? It's cheaper, cables are abundant.
As someone who has seen numerous Micro-USB ports on devices go bad, I must agree that it's a horrible standard.

I think the standards bodies should have come up with a higher quality connector. Imagine if a connector similar to Lightning were the standard instead of the flimsy, easy to break Micro-USB? The world would be a better place, and Apple might have even adopted it.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:06 PM   #77
Tech198
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Of course, the thinking here is "IF" Apple gets a hold of your phone they can determine this.

Chances are if the companies are sneaky (which of course why wouldn't you be if you were trying to slip under the radar), Apple would never get a hold of this.

Its like saying, if i squealed because you told me to keep a secret.....

It only takes one person ...... from inside ..
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:11 PM   #78
geoffct
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Originally Posted by Fatalbert View Post
It's not expandable at all. Once some more things change, Apple would have to change the connector to whatever the new USB standard is that does what it needs to do. Actually, MicroUSB already can't do everything an iPhone with Lightning can do even if it can do the basic functions.

Keep in mind that it's very possible that phones will be able to act as PCs by themselves soon. Apple is being wise in planning for anything that can happen. You think connecting a mouse, keyboard, display, and other ports will work all through MicroUSB? It sure will work over Lightning.
Many people do not realize, the MicroUSB port on most new devices are actually MicroUSB A-B ports, which is both a "B" port aka a device AND and an "A" port aka a host. So Yes I know connecting a mouse, keyboard, display, and other ports will work all through MicroUSB.

The advantage the lightning cable has over a Micro-USB is that with 8pins compared to MicroUSB's 4, it can perform all of the tasks of Micro-USB 3.0 at about half of the size, whilst being able to be flipped. When looked at from this perspective it is abundantly clear why Apple couldn't simply use MicroUSB as they promised the EU they would.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:28 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToomeyND View Post
You know Apple is PISSED that USB 3.0 looks identical to USB 2.0.
This is especially amusing, because Apple broke the USB spec with amperage that the iPhone/iPad draw when charging.

I believe that 2.1a is still non-standard for USB 3.0.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:31 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by geoffct View Post
Many people do not realize, the MicroUSB port on most new devices are actually MicroUSB A-B ports, which is both a "B" port aka a device AND and an "A" port aka a host. So Yes I know connecting a mouse, keyboard, display, and other ports will work all through MicroUSB.
A display through MicroUSB sounds impossible. Doesn't Lightning have a lower-level connection like how TB and FW do?
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:34 PM   #81
darkplanets
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I don't understand the need for chip verification.

It's a cable, not a SoC. Seems a bit excessive -- as long as it works, who cares.

The knockoffs will be produced anyways regardless of chip ID.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 10:13 PM   #82
MagnusVonMagnum
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Originally Posted by seek3r View Post
Care to provide a link for the rest of us?
I guess my memory was a bit faulty. I apparently paid $3.52 with Free Shipping and it's since gone up a bit to $4.82 with Free Shipping (still a good price considering): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o02_s00_i00
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 10:41 PM   #83
zhenya
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Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
Explain why micro usb is so bad? Because Apple didn't invent it?

The ONLY reason Apple created a new connector is to make money, nothing else.
No. If you are going to go on a rampage, at least understand the topic. Apple's connector is wholly unique in that it allows for driverless communication with host devices. This is entirely different than usb, and it alone is the reason why Apple has a huge aftermarket of devices, and the competition has almost none. It means than a $40 radio can have a dock connector, charge the device, and interface with the device for control. The accessory is completely dumb. USB can't do this.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 10:48 PM   #84
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You know what, I don't have a problem with this. I have bought cables before that were really cheap and melted, almost destroying my phone.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 11:41 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by bushido View Post
gotta love how apples marketing department always seems to be able to spin anything like they make everything to "please" the customers when it actually means "to make as much money as possible" if u read between the lines ^^

they should write political statements / press releases
I'd be a cynic too if I hadn't witnessed my co-worker frying 2 iPhones with a cheap cable he bought from Amazon. Apple gave him a new phone each time and he spent many hours re-entering his contacts because he hadn't backed up in awhile. This unofficial cable was a lose lose... Apple lost money and my co-worker wasted a lot of time.

Moral of the story: spend the few extra few bucks and get an Apple branded or sanctioned cable.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 11:53 PM   #86
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Stupid, making money out cables and connections
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:38 AM   #87
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On a positive note, put a Mophie battery case on your iPhone - and you can use any old cheap USB micro cable to connect to your Mac. I mean lightning isn't any faster than usb anyway.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:52 AM   #88
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"iPhone accessories are a multi-million dollar business and Apple wants to ensure that users have the best experience possible by only allowing approved third-party accessories to be used with new iOS devices. "

Half this statement is correct, "iPhone accessories are a MULTI-MILLION dollar Business." Yes that is very true.The rest is an outright lie! "Apple wants to ensure users have the best experience possible?"
BULL!

Apple WANTS MONEY!
They want YOUR money!
They want MONEY from all the 3rd parties!
And they want to control everything so no one else can cut in to their money!
Then they want more money again!

The fact that it is a pleasant user experience is secondary and a fortunate coincidence that it helps them make more money!
They care because they discovered having cool looking gadgets, and a nice user experience makes them money!

There is a reason why they are the biggest company on Earth with more money in cash then many countries GDP. Its because they know better than anyone how to make money!

It is only about the money, Steve Jobs didn't want to be your friend. Tim Cook is not going to hang out and watch the game with you because you help pay bonuses. They want you to buy their stuff!
Apple is in business to make money and that is all the really care about in the end!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwfl View Post
Stupid, making money out cables and connections
Why is that stupid?
Apple is a company in business to make money.
That is why they exist.
They are not your friends.
They do not exist to give you free stuff or discounts because you like them.

They are only doing what any company should.
Make money any way they can.

If you don't like it, go buy a walkman and some old cassettes at a garage sale.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
Apple wants to charge top dollar for these cables and squeeze out the third parties ability to sell them.
Okay?
So Apple is just supposed to hand over their technology to anyone else so they can make a profit of off Apple's years and millions of dollars in research and development?

Seriously what is wrong with you people.
Apple is in business to make money, they is what they do better than anyone else on Earth.
They are not in business to give away stuff or let anyone with a trunk sell accessories using parts and technology designed by Apple.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 02:16 AM   #89
Soliber
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The chip inside the cable is used to reconfigure the pins of the connector for different use cases.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/09...-assigns-pins/
Some people seem to think Apple and Intel stuck it in there, just to for the sake of the MFI program.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 04:14 AM   #90
dfs
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Anti-consumer business tactic

To the best of my knowledge, Apple has never made any assertion that the new Lightning connectivity is in any way shape or form superior to its USB predecessor (the name Lightning is suggestive of higher speed, but Apple has not made any such claim). This evidently being the case, there appears to be no alternative to the suspicion that the sole and only purpose of Lightning is to procure a monopoly on connectivity devices , put manufacturers of third-party docking devices etc. etc. out of business, artificially inflate the the price of Lightning, and generally behave in a monopolistic manner. I have always admired Apple as a corporation, and I'd like to be proven wrong about my suspicion. But, so far at least, Apple has done nothing to help me understand why they have a less sleazy reason for introducing Lightning. I can't help wondering if for the first time we are being shown the true face of Tim Cook, and I don't very much like what I see.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 05:41 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by dfs View Post
To the best of my knowledge, Apple has never made any assertion that the new Lightning connectivity is in any way shape or form superior to its USB predecessor (the name Lightning is suggestive of higher speed, but Apple has not made any such claim). This evidently being the case, there appears to be no alternative to the suspicion that the sole and only purpose of Lightning is to procure a monopoly on connectivity devices , put manufacturers of third-party docking devices etc. etc. out of business, artificially inflate the the price of Lightning, and generally behave in a monopolistic manner. I have always admired Apple as a corporation, and I'd like to be proven wrong about my suspicion. But, so far at least, Apple has done nothing to help me understand why they have a less sleazy reason for introducing Lightning. I can't help wondering if for the first time we are being shown the true face of Tim Cook, and I don't very much like what I see.
See my post above. The advantages of Apple's proprietary 30-pin connector, which the lightning cable retains in a more compact, reversible, durable connection allow for a rich ecosystem of aftermarket devices. It is a huge competitive advantage over devices which must connect via usb and provides for a markedly better experience for the end user.

Apple could certainly have handled the transition better in terms of helping third party manufacturers have products available sooner, but they most certainly have no intention of putting them out of business.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 06:53 AM   #92
dfs
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You might be right in touting the present and future of benefits of Lightning. I'm not saying you're not. But should it be your responsibility to educate us about this subject? Isn't that supposed to be Apple's job? Normally, if they have something good to tell us about a new product, they are not shy about doing so. If there is anything good to be said about Lightning, why in hell haven't they told us so?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 07:21 AM   #93
Soliber
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dfs, that's what we have journalists for.
They inquire about Lightning, usually get the answers they need and write about it.
You can't blame Apple for not having read about it.
Apple also usually doesn't go too far into technical details about this sort of thing, because most people don't understand. You can't explain to the average customer how the dynamic configuration of those Lightning pins works.
For the people that can understand and want to know: surf around, the info is out there.

This reminds me of the time when Apple's Fusion Drive came out. All sorts of people were claiming it to be an ordinary caching drive, until Ars Technica came around, investigated and explained everything in minute detail.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 08:02 AM   #94
zhenya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfs View Post
You might be right in touting the present and future of benefits of Lightning. I'm not saying you're not. But should it be your responsibility to educate us about this subject? Isn't that supposed to be Apple's job? Normally, if they have something good to tell us about a new product, they are not shy about doing so. If there is anything good to be said about Lightning, why in hell haven't they told us so?
All that customers care about is that there is a wide variety of docks, radios, and car integration systems that work seamlessly with Apple devices. That benefit is a direct result of Apple's proprietary design. If you'd like to know more about what makes that possible, there is plenty written on the subject.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 09:20 AM   #95
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[QUOTE=ToomeyND;16848758]You clearly don't get Apple. They want to make it as simple as possible. Two cables that do different things but look the same would be confusing. That is why Apple made sure the Thunderbolt cable looks different than the minidisplayport cable......

MiniDisplay Port meet Thunderbolt.

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Originally Posted by ToomeyND View Post
You know Apple is PISSED that USB 3.0 looks identical to USB 2.0.
You have no idea if that is that is true and is nothing more than speculation on your part.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 09:56 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Jimmy James View Post
I see what you did there.

This is too cryptic for me to understand but I am curious as to what you mean.

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You lost me at golly.
You gotta feel it.

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You expect anything different on MR?
Good point
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:04 AM   #97
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Honestly, it is this sort of thing that is making me shy away from Apple products.

I have enjoyed their products for a long time, but I can't feel good about supporting a company that uses tactics that Apple has been practicing for a while now.

Sad.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:20 AM   #98
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I have had third-party 30-pin connectors that simply didn't work, didn't charge as fast, and one that literally caught fire! Apple is not regulating these new connectors solely for the money or form factor...they are doing it to prevent the the horror stories that myself and other forum members experienced. Just read the forums.

I am PERFECTLY ok with the high intial price of these things, especially it it means that they don't catch fire...or have a more consistent experience.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:32 AM   #99
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I bought a third party chord for 5$. Broke in 2 weeks.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:49 AM   #100
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I can't begin to tell you how badly I want to Lightning to LOD cable without a stupid adapter.
And even then, you're only amping the already amped analog signal. I want a DAC/AMP that doesn't cost $600 as an option. I'm hopeful V-Moda's next VAMP will be a little better than $650 like their 4/S one.
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