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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:27 AM   #26
coolspot18
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Just as I have heard from friends ... Apple is not a good company to work for, there are better in Silicon Valley / Mountain View.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:27 AM   #27
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COOK wouldn't let that happen.
Is this the new thing that will replace the "Jobs would not let that happen" saying?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:28 AM   #28
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second page rumors at the most...
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:46 AM   #29
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yes hire an employee to work on a fake project hoping they'll leak it so you can fire them. makes total sense.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:51 AM   #30
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yes hire an employee to work on a fake project hoping they'll leak it so you can fire them. makes total sense.
Back when this rumor first made its round, everyone talked about how good an idea it was.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:04 PM   #31
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Pretty questionable, I'd have thought. Can security effectively detain people without their consent, particularly when there is (as yet) no clear evidence of a crime?

I guess they could always threaten anyone who leaves with being fired for refusing to submit to a security check.
A few years ago Apple was in court to get the name of the person who leaked information from a website. The judge told them that they hadn't done enough to question their employees before asking the website. The kind of thing you are talking about was exactly what this judge meant.

And it's quite common in many places that you can be searched randomly, without any suspicion of any crime, for stolen property when you leave from work. Hasn't happened where I work now, but happened at previous places. Refusing to be searched will (a) get you fired and (b) make you a strong suspect, so you will be searched.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:07 PM   #32
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It's not a bad idea but I doubt anyone would do that...
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:18 PM   #33
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If it ever happened, it was before Cook took over. It seems like a very "steve thing to do"
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:21 PM   #34
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I'm going to preface this by saying that I am a huge fan of Apple products.

People care too much about this company.

A couple of examples stick out in my mind. The first being when I purchased my iPhone 5, an employee told me that cases weren't available yet in order to let Ive's design be seen by the world for a few days. I stared at her for a while after that one before finishing my purchase and heading over to the AT&T store for a case that was readily available for me.

The second example would be this nonsense. What business in their right mind would pay people thousands of dollars on fake projects just in the HOPES that they might gain a little bit of secrecy? Has anyone heard of an NDA? I imagine the folks that conjure up this sort of stuff also believe in chemtrails, low wave emissions from cell towers, and that Obama is a Kenyan.

Stop thinking about what Apple does and go outside.
Get a life.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:28 PM   #35
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A lot of employees DO have place-holder titles given prior to orientation.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:32 PM   #36
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Hey, I think I worked for a whole fake company at one time. Everything we did was window dressing to make something look like it worked.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:34 PM   #37
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If I were the employee, I'd be pissed that I did all that work to never see a product hit the market. This would be a terrible policy, and there's no way apple does it.
Apple (and most other big tech companies) spend $Billions on R&D, with very few of those projects leading directly to products that actually ship. Every company does it, thus it's the default standard policy.

Some of those R&D projects, management knows way ahead of time that they will need to be killed, but they're kept running until a new place is found to utilize talented (and new) employees before they bolt for the competition.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:50 PM   #38
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I'd clean the restrooms for a chance to work behind the walls of 1 Cupertino Loop
1 Infinite loop.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:52 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
A few years ago Apple was in court to get the name of the person who leaked information from a website. The judge told them that they hadn't done enough to question their employees before asking the website. The kind of thing you are talking about was exactly what this judge meant.

And it's quite common in many places that you can be searched randomly, without any suspicion of any crime, for stolen property when you leave from work. Hasn't happened where I work now, but happened at previous places. Refusing to be searched will (a) get you fired and (b) make you a strong suspect, so you will be searched.
True, but I'm assuming they can't forcibly detain you. 'Merely' threaten to fire you (with a risk of pressing charges) if you don't remain there and consent to being searched.

I do know Apple do have airport-style metal detectors in their plant in Cork, for the employees as they leave and their bags, and the bags could (and often would) be searched as well. I've never seen anyone searched randomly elsewhere in the plant though.

That only really covers material theft, it doesn't cover sending/carrying confidential out; which could only be caught by monitoring network traffic (and there are ways around that) and carrying information out with you (can only really be caught by searches, and too many could be prohibitively invasive).
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:59 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by whooleytoo View Post
Pretty questionable, I'd have thought. Can security effectively detain people without their consent, particularly when there is (as yet) no clear evidence of a crime?

I guess they could always threaten anyone who leaves with being fired for refusing to submit to a security check.
They can if they have strong reason to believe you have stolen from them. Such as a store security guy seeing an employee shoplift. You can be detained. Now if they screw up and do a lot of assuming and other bs, then you can have a civil rights/harassment violation case to bring against them.

Basically, they better be darn sure they have strong evidence that a crime has taken place when they choose to detain employees or they can get their tushies handed to them.

You can refuse all random security checks and walk right out the door. If they touch you, get a lawyer because you've got them and can take them to the woodshed. Along with you walking out the door, so likely will be your job at that place, but they cant force you into random checks and I seriously doubt refusal can be construed as evidence of a crime.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:18 PM   #41
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Room on lockdown, I question if that is even legal? "Sorry hun, I can't leave work until security lets us out of the room." ?
My wife briefly worked on a Very Big Merger(TM) project. Everyone was kept in a legal "clean room" where a lawyer examined everything going in and out. Leaving without his say-so clearly was a terminating offense.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:24 PM   #42
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If I were the employee, I'd be pissed that I did all that work to never see a product hit the market. This would be a terrible policy, and there's no way apple does it.
Hearbreaking as it is, I imagine this happens all the time.

Remember how excited everyone was about Microsoft Courier?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:35 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by phillipduran View Post
They can if they have strong reason to believe you have stolen from them. Such as a store security guy seeing an employee shoplift. You can be detained. Now if they screw up and do a lot of assuming and other bs, then you can have a civil rights/harassment violation case to bring against them.

Basically, they better be darn sure they have strong evidence that a crime has taken place when they choose to detain employees or they can get their tushies handed to them.

You can refuse all random security checks and walk right out the door. If they touch you, get a lawyer because you've got them and can take them to the woodshed. Along with you walking out the door, so likely will be your job at that place, but they cant force you into random checks and I seriously doubt refusal can be construed as evidence of a crime.
That is all largely based on state law. Not all states grant security officers private companies the right to detain people. None of them have arrest powers either. And that power usually ends when you make it out the front door.

In this instance, it appears they're referring to searching company property vs. the individuals themselves. Plus, refusing to a search usually means you lose your job.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:40 PM   #44
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fake project?

You know, if the fake project is called "iWorks" that would explain why there hasn't been a new version in half a decade...
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:52 PM   #45
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I will not mind knowing that I worked on a fake project as long as that fake project was a fake project. Meaning, that project was not fake.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:59 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
A few years ago Apple was in court to get the name of the person who leaked information from a website. The judge told them that they hadn't done enough to question their employees before asking the website. The kind of thing you are talking about was exactly what this judge meant.

And it's quite common in many places that you can be searched randomly, without any suspicion of any crime, for stolen property when you leave from work. Hasn't happened where I work now, but happened at previous places. Refusing to be searched will (a) get you fired and (b) make you a strong suspect, so you will be searched.
Happens at my employer. Can search any storage device in possession while on property at will. This includes desktops. Of course you agree to this prior to signing your contract.

Apple is peanuts. I've been required to enter Active Millimeter Wave Scanners prior to building access. And no, it was not catching the Red Eye out of LAX.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 02:10 PM   #47
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The fake projects were a rumor Apple gave their employes, to see if they talked about it. There were no fake projects, just fake, fake projects. "Someone's gona get fired! Someone's gona get fired!
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 02:11 PM   #48
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This probably came about from some "sour grapes" of a new Apple hire who got stuck on some crappy project, like updating the Preferences panel for some app, and thought it was beneath them or it HAD to be some "fake" or "busy work" thing until they got to reinvent QuickTime or something.

I base this opinion partially on past anecdotal stories of people who got a job at Apple and talked about what they initially worked on, what the corporate culture was like, etc.

I have never worked for Apple, Inc. but I do own a small amount of Apple stock. I do work as a professional (Mac, yay!) software developer in a large multi-national corporation not based in the USA and so I can relate to working in the big corporate software world to a large degree.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 02:23 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by britboyj View Post
A lot of employees DO have place-holder titles given prior to orientation.
I suspect this is more the truth. Take for example the leak of a search for Apple TV engineers. It's possible that that's not really what they are looking for but the job needs are similar. So they say one thing but then after you are hired etc they 'transfe' you to some other project that no one has seen any leaks about. Not really that you are working in something fake.

The other version might be workng on a prototype idea that is later canned. It was something that ultimately didn't happen and some folks might consider that 'fake' even though every intent might have been to potentially release it
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 02:47 PM   #50
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ha, in 2005-2006 they probably told some dude "go over there and make a computer i can use in bed and on my couch"
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