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Old Dec 9, 2002, 08:37 AM   #1
peter2002
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ISS: $42B Taxpayer Rip-Off

It really is a shame, but the International Space Station has become the biggest government rip-off since it was exposed that the Interior Department is spending over a $1,000,000 each to build out-houses in our national parks. So far, NASA has wasted over $42 Billion, not counting $500,000,000 each time to launch a space shuttle and inflation.

Atomic Missle defense is the only thing that compares to such waste and fraud.

The ISS has nothing to show for the all the money and years that has been spent. The only result is a jobs program for PHDs and cool videos of guys floating around for loyal fans of StarTrek.

If the government spent this tax payer money on something more worth while, maybe now a cure for AIDS, or our dependency on foreign oil would be fixed.

All this hype about discovering alien life is a child's fantasy. Even if we did find it, we can never go there because it would take to long. Faster than light speed for humans is fantasy, it will never happen.

If alien life could come here, they would just kill, make pets of us, or enslave us humans because we would be seen as an inferior life form.

http://www.scifitoday.com/story/2002/12/7/143351/442

Peter

Last edited by peter2002; Dec 9, 2002 at 08:40 AM.
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 08:49 AM   #2
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WOW! $42 billion USD! That's enough to make even Bill Gates look twice
I think the exploration of space is something worth putting money into, as it could be a big part of our future.
But, as you say, we have more pressing issues here on little old planet earth to deal with first, and that $42 billion could have helped greatly.

Beam me up Scottie!
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 09:15 AM   #3
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Re: ISS: $42B Taxpayer Rip-Off

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Originally posted by peter2002

The ISS has nothing to show for the all the money and years that has been spent. The only result is a jobs program for PHDs and cool videos of guys floating around for loyal fans of StarTrek.

All this hype about discovering alien life is a child's fantasy. Even if we did find it, we can never go there because it would take to long. Faster than light speed for humans is fantasy, it will never happen.
Ah, the ISS isn't out there to look for Aliens. It will pave the way for more space stations in the future and be a stepping stone for humanity to settle other worlds. One thing we need to do, if we want to ensure the survival of the species.

Although I don't think is the foremost reason for putting the damn thing orbit, and yes it has its issues. But we do need to start somewhere and learn how to live in space - it is the future.

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Old Dec 9, 2002, 10:43 AM   #4
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Boston's Big Dig, which all Americans are paying for, is costing over $14 Billion. This has been a textbook example of corruption, nepotism, low0ball estimates and a host of other shoddy business practices. This to me is far worse than the ISS. I think we have seen some good returns on the investment in the space program in material science, electronics, batteries and other technologies. The Big Dig enhanced capacity, however, will simply fill up with cars and Boston will have congestion issues once again.

For our non-American friends, the Big Dig is Boston's attempt to untangle itself from automotive congestion by building a tunnel for cars beneath the city. There are also several bridges involved also but the main item is the Central Artery tunnel.

Happy holidays all,

David
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 11:09 AM   #5
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Re: Re: ISS: $42B Taxpayer Rip-Off

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Originally posted by dukestreet
Ah, the ISS isn't out there to look for Aliens. It will pave the way for more space stations in the future and be a stepping stone for humanity to settle other worlds. One thing we need to do, if we want to ensure the survival of the species.
That's kind of a sad statement, isn't it? It's a shame we can't get our **** together here on earth. It was fine before we got here. We should learn to live in harmony with our own planet rather than going off and colonizing others. This is the only planet on which we can walk outside and not be 1) fried, 2) frozen, 3) depressurized to the point where we explode, 4) crushed by atmospheric pressure, 5) lethally irradiated, 6) choked by poison gases (well, at least not quite yet), and so on. If what you say about it being essential for us to colonize other worlds is true, we're no better than the aliens in Independence Day - parasites who suck the resources out of the planets they settle and then move on to the next. I hope that isn't true.

Yes, the ISS is a massive waste of money...
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 11:13 AM   #6
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Just out of curiosity, has anybody learned what kind of knowledge we expect to gain from the ISS?
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 11:38 AM   #7
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There are plenty of experiments planned over the next several years. You can find out more about it at the Nasa website - it might take a bit of poking around, though.

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/

D
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 11:55 AM   #8
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Boston's Big Dig, which all Americans are paying for, is costing over $14 Billion.

Yeah, I forgot about that one. That is another jobs program for the mafia. Do we really need anymore roads in this country? Just think of all the problems when terrorists blows up a bomb in it. Traffic will be a nightmare in Boston for another 15 years.

Better mass transit, cleaner busses, and low-emission cars should be researched.

Peter

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Old Dec 9, 2002, 12:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by peter2002

Better mass transit, cleaner busses, and low-emission cars should be researched.
All of that is being researched now - and I understand your reasoning, there are some days I wish they'd pass a law in DC that says during business hours you can't drive your cars on the streets downtown, with only delivery, taxi and police/fire trucks allowed. Maybe some day.

D
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 02:01 PM   #10
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You're right, Peter. The ISS IS a waste of money. NASA knew that when they put it up. But we shouldn't abandon space exploration just because we haven't met any aliens yet.

I read an article once (sorry I don't remember where) saying that if anything, to be productive the ISS needed more money rather than less. And when you think about it, how much experimenting can you do with two astronauts and one scientist onboard a tiny station? More crew and facilities would be needed to make this thing work for us.

Personally, I think we shoulda spent that $42B going to Mars. A small permanent self-sustaining community would have been much cheaper in the long run, but just try and convince congress to spend $42B up front and see what you get. (A space station that does nothing, at a cost of several billion dollars a year in perpetuity)

Has anyone read the Mars triology by Kim Stanley Robinson? It's an excellent series about the colonization of Mars and the resulting culture that emerges. It almost makes you think that humans as a species have a chance for survival. If I was in charge that would be my road map.
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 04:46 PM   #11
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I'm sure none of the ISS price tag includes any funding for government programs (by all participants) that the governments don't want us to know about.
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 04:47 PM   #12
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Yeah 500,000,000 is alot for a sigle trip to outer space, that is why NASA has had Boeing do alot of testing on a space craft that can take of form a runway and be completly resuable....

alot of good has come form the space industry including the computer screen you are looking at. as well as most of the tecnology you enjoy every day of your life


off the topic maby we wouldn't have to search for a cure for AIDS if humans didn't have sex with monkeys
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 06:13 PM   #13
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The biggest problem is that scientists are controlling this ISS project, and they only want scientists up there.

A better idea would have been to build a space hotel and tourist attraction and charge $100,000-$1,000,000 to spend a week there. Research can be better done on the ground. 5 guys doing 360's in their jammies can only do so much real research.

Peter
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 09:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by peter2002
The biggest problem is that scientists are controlling this ISS project, and they only want scientists up there.

A better idea would have been to build a space hotel and tourist attraction and charge $100,000-$1,000,000 to spend a week there. Research can be better done on the ground. 5 guys doing 360's in their jammies can only do so much real research.

Peter
God you're ignorant, aren't you? Don't you think there's a reason why researchers are doing research in zero gravity? Do you think that they may be doing experiments that REQUIRE zero gravity? The main point of doing research up there is to study the effects of being in space for organisms for long periods of time.

Commercialization will happen, but it'll take time. NASA may be messing their budgets and everything, but at least they are advancing human spaceflight. Wasn't Columbus critisized for his "frivolous" attempt to reach the Orient? If he didn't make this journey because of a bunch of penny pinching critics, America may not even exist. (of course, thousands of native american's wouldn't have been massacred by the portugese, spanish, french, english, etc. but that's another story)
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Old Dec 9, 2002, 09:41 PM   #15
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Have any of you been following the X Prize? Commercialization of space is just around the corner. Getting a hotel in space might take a while though. Again, once a simple and inexpensive, single stage to orbit vehicle capable of transporting a good sized cargo is available - space travel will come to the masses. And there will be no turning back.

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Old Dec 10, 2002, 12:40 AM   #16
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Frankly, I'm surprised commercialization hasn't happened more quickly. I'm sure there's millions to be made somewhere. Nasa certainly isn't helping their own cause by shutting out any plans for commercial tourism. Letting more tourists on the space station just builds more excitement. "Someday I'LL get to go into space!" Guess it drives up the insurance rates too high. Oh well, maybe our great grandchildren...
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Old Dec 10, 2002, 02:42 AM   #17
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Pete!!

I agree with you the ISS has been a huge waste of $ but in this day and age do you expect the politicians we have eleced to use money like that to help their citizens? of course not! we might be facing a war putting this country further into debt! americans are supposed to be the baddest doggs on the planet, yet we still have common diseases, poverty, hunger, massive amounts of immigrants who suck welfare and healthcare from born residents who need it and they refuse to learn english. try going to downtown miami and finding someone speaking english its virtually impossible. That is a huge problem in my eyes, we cant support the people we have in this country, we should quit taking in more people! Immigration doors need to be closed for the next 10 years and the US budget focused on bringin itself up to spec, we also need to eliminate dependency on foreign oil, and find oil alternatives and quit poluttin! but this aint going to happen until the last second when the world is about to implode with disease, famine, poverty, etc. if at all! Now in my personal opinion we need to quit aid to other countries, quit taking immigrants and cure america's ails. George Washington is just waiting for the current crop of politicians to come to heaven and start kicking the crap out of them one by one screaming how dare you defile what we created! Either the world is going to implode or the only way to save it will be a massive electromagnetic pulse from the heavens eliminating all technology and making people start from scratch so we really appreciate everything we get! or let us who think humanity can survive go colonize another planet and prove it, because corporate america is taking us to hell with them!
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Old Dec 10, 2002, 03:16 AM   #18
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Re: ISS: $42B Taxpayer Rip-Off

Quote:
Originally posted by peter2002
It really is a shame, but the International Space Station has become the biggest government rip-off...

The ISS has nothing to show for the all the money and years that has been spent. The only result is a jobs program for PHDs and cool videos of guys floating around for loyal fans of StarTrek.
I totally agree - just think of what that money could have meant to an un-manned space exploration program!

Let's give up this "Star Trek" image we have of space exploration and face the fact that it's too expensive to adapt systems for human habitation.

NASA should be focusing on inexpensive rockets to lauch satellites and probes like Voyager!

I'm all for space exploration - as long as it's unmanned. Putting humans in space is just a testament to man's ego.

Don't think for one moment that just because of NASA's loft goals they aren't concerned about lining their pockets.

Of course NASA does use G4's ...and we pay for them.

moby1
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Old Dec 10, 2002, 02:26 PM   #19
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Whatever happened to the inspiring atmosphere of the 60's? Everyone was energized about the thought of going to the moon and the space industry that it was like the national hobby or something. There were numerous predictions that we'd be living on mars by the 1990s but look at us: we're still lazily flying around in low earth orbit doing practically nothing except for a little research.

This is absurd.

Space IS the final frontier and the only way we'll ever take advantage of it is if we spent the money to develop the technology to do it.
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