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Old Feb 19, 2013, 02:28 AM   #126
iGrouch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12dylan34 View Post
You obviously don't understand the market that the Mac Pro is catered to. When your computer is for work, and not to look good, it needs to be upgradable, it needs to have proper cooling, and it needs to be reliable.

Not getting the job done on deadline because your machine is still rendering, or it's throttling down because of heat, could mean losing the job and thus a $40,000 check, as well as a damaged reputation.

The fact of the matter is that the iMac is not as capable as a (future) Mac Pro, nor does it replace the place in the Market for the Mac Pro (FYI, I'm typing this from my fully blown 2012 iMac).
Yes and the absence of any news on a replacement for the Mac Pro is starting to show.

We get a trade Film and TV paper from the UK every year. I do not know why we get it but it comes free in the post. It carries all the the broadcast news and covers all the reviews and articles on new equipment for that market.

Up to last year there were always several ads showing lots of Apple product wether that was a B&H ad or ads for editing facilities touting that they had the best of Apple equipment to hire. All that is now practically gone from this publication.

The current edition gives a very good review of some high spec laptop running Windows that has the spec of a desktop. I think it even had two Graphics cards and the reviewer even says that the metro interface is quite useful when used on a second monitor. Lots of other photos show editing and other broadcast software in the publication and it all looks competent and you get the sense that the users probably are happy enough to use all this Windows based software and I think this is where the general Mac enthusiast doesn't get it.

The real pros in their selected discipline generally like or, are at least used to, using complex and busy interfaces. That's the nature of the work they do.

Apple are streamlining and making things easier for the the everyday user but this may not be what the technical pros in broadcasting actually want. They have just moved on, especially where budgets dictate that they can move lock stock and barrel to a different platform. I don't think they loose much sleep over it, as long as they have access to a fully functional and feature rich piece of software say like Avid. Do they really care if it is on Windows. Do they care that the OS is supposedly more crappy than OS X. No they don't because either they are competent enough to deal with any of the problems that crop up or there is an IT guy that will sort it out for them.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see Apple come up with something new and amazing but I thing the company has moved into a new space over the last 6 years since the advent of ios.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 02:45 AM   #127
antonis
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Originally Posted by Larry-K View Post
Can we disband NATO now that we've discovered the real threat to Europe is MacPro Fan Blades? We really don't have the cash to spare anymore.
+1 to this.

Haha now there's a post that nailed it. Indeed, finally, Europe is now safe. The beast is gone.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 02:53 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by esquared View Post
Good, so now Europeans can not buy them in the same numbers as we in America.
You're welcome to it. Nobody wants to buy the current crappy model. Overpriced and very underpowered.

More fool you if you want to buy the current one
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 03:36 AM   #129
Larry-K
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I love it when people tell me what I need or don't need. Like I could actually do something like this on a piddly ass Mac Mini.
Ahhh, nothing gets the fans going on a MacPro like a nice big Modo Render.

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Originally Posted by JesterJJZ View Post
I need 16.
I'll use whatever the software supports, so load'em up.

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Originally Posted by SeaFox View Post
Thank God this machine is off the market. I can't count the number of bandaids I've had to buy due to small mishaps with the unprotected fan blades when my small children are playing inside the spacious case of my Mac Pro while I'm running it.
They're still using them at Gitmo on the "Worst of the Worst", and there are rumors the Spanish Inquisition is substituting them for the comfy Pillows.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 03:36 AM   #130
gnasher729
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
Just curious, is it still available in the UK? Last I checked they were part of Europe but not the EU.
They are part of the EU. Quad core MacPro is available refurbished, that's it. See how long it lasts. (They still have 17" MBPs so that could be there for some time).
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 03:43 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raftysworld View Post
You guys have actually convinced yourselves that you need 12 cores?
Some people actually use their computers for performing considerable amounts of computation. Hell I'm just a CS student but currently I have cpu bound projects that take over 40 minutes to build on my i7 MBP, when I'm employed and have the cash (and apple offers something sensible) I could certainly make good use of a machine with 12 cores and that's just for my hobbies.

Macs used to be predominantly professional machines, often used for rendering jobs that would take hours or days as opposed to minutes/seconds. Time equals money when you're using a machine for work, please don't assume that everyone here is a consumer.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 03:43 AM   #132
NoRaS
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shame on you apple....

Last edited by NoRaS; Feb 19, 2013 at 03:45 AM. Reason: wrong
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:04 AM   #133
MacsRgr8
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Does anyone know how much profit Apple makes on the Mac Pro?
What percentage of revenue of the CPU's are Mac Pro's?

All the arguments here are plausible:
• Pro users need MAX horsepower
• Why does anybody need more power than a maxxed out iMac?
• X-Plane 10 needs more grfx power than a GeForce 680 MX
• Time and effort spent on Mac Pro R&D is better spent on iDevices R&D
• Apple can't eliminate their only Workstation
• Apple is already abandoning Pro-users, see the software lineup
• etc, etc.

Bottom line (duh): Apple is trying to decide what gives more profit:
1. High margin, but very small customer base?
2. Lower margin but for the "masses"?
3. What are the consequences of the choice?

I seriously don't know. But allowing the current situation that in the EU countries you simply cannot buy the Mac Pro says a lot.

I hope Apple has a surprising "Pro" update for us in the pipeline. But it has to show itself quick. Damn quick!!
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:08 AM   #134
rmwebs
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
Just curious, is it still available in the UK? Last I checked they were part of Europe but not the EU.
Might want to brush up on your world affairs reading

The UK has been part of the EEC (which eventually became the EU) since 1973. Technically you could say we joined the EU in 1993 when it was formed, but its basically just the EEC with a facelift.

So yes, unfortunately, some numpty in another country who knows naff all about the UK actually dictates what we can and cant do.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:16 AM   #135
Umbongo
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Originally Posted by MacsRgr8 View Post
Does anyone know how much profit Apple makes on the Mac Pro?
In the region of $1,200-$1,700 per Mac Pro sold at this point I would think based on the parts used and Apple's purchasing power.

Quote:
What percentage of revenue of the CPU's are Mac Pro's?
Apple won't be selling more than 100,000 units per year now, and to be honest it could be as low as 10,000. Which is why they won't care about losing the EU at this point, as we are talking 50-500 systems a week sold. Even if Apple are selling 100,000 a year (very generous), at an average price of $3,500 (again generous), it would be 0.0016% of revenue.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:17 AM   #136
FluJunkie
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Originally Posted by Raftysworld View Post
Why would anyone ever need a Mac Pro? An iMac does everything a Mac Pro does, but in a smaller, sleeker, more portable case.
My Mac Pro has more RAM than an iMac's maximum, and I'm not even trying that hard.

And yes, I do top it out.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:20 AM   #137
stantheman
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People always say... yeah we don´t really need a new Mac Pro.
The iMac can do everything the mac pro can but better...
That is only because the Mac Pro has not been "really"
updated for so long.

I was always excited with the announcements of the new
flagship machines from apple. Remember the G4, the G5, the G5 quad?

As a professional user who has been with mac my whole life
I want the best and fastest computer that can be,
without the restriction of having to be super slim.
Just imagine what awesome power this machine could have,
with the newest graphics & components that exist.

Please Apple, bring us back the personal supercomputer.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:29 AM   #138
shaunp
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Originally Posted by Raftysworld View Post
You guys have actually convinced yourselves that you need 12 cores?
Actually I don't need 12 cores, but I understand and appreciate that some people do. What I do need is a desktop that's not an all in one, so I can add HDD's graphics cards, memory, etc. I also HATE glossy screens!

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Originally Posted by prowlmedia View Post
3d and vfx work / rendering etc - my company... www.prowl.co.uk
Nice website mate. Like the showreel.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:35 AM   #139
mastgrr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Might want to brush up on your world affairs reading

The UK has been part of the EEC (which eventually became the EU) since 1973. Technically you could say we joined the EU in 1993 when it was formed, but its basically just the EEC with a facelift.

So yes, unfortunately, some numpty in another country who knows naff all about the UK actually dictates what we can and cant do.
IEC regulations are voluntary. Apple is voluntarily halting sales of this Mac Pro because it doesn't follow the current standards.

Since in Europe you can sell a product and buy it anywhere, it doesn't make sense why they'd let one country still sell it and another one not.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:46 AM   #140
iZac
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I remember the iMac, mac mini and macbook air have previously had moments of extreme obsolescence and unavailability before a major refresh, I guess if Apple is only shifting a hundred thousand Mac Pro's a quarter, the impact on their bottom line is negligible ... apart from the hideously bad press this kind of news delivers.

…That being said, the rebirth of the Mac Pro will be all the more glorious when it does finally arrive.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:53 AM   #141
peterh988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Programmer View Post
Do people in the EU have to put guards on their ceiling fans too?
Oh, we have a wonderful nanny state here. It's not too long ago they were trying to regulate (physically, by an attachment to your system) how hot you could have your bath water (because people poaching themselves to death is a huuuuuge problem here)

Then we have the rules that contradict each other, 'pesticide containers must be burned after use/the burning of plastics is forbidden'

We have a situation of 'absolute rights, absolutely no responsibility' with all the nannying.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:30 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Raftysworld View Post
Why would anyone ever need a Mac Pro? An iMac does everything a Mac Pro does, but in a smaller, sleeker, more portable case.
Yeh right. So does a Mac Mini....just a whole lot slower.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by manu chao View Post
iMacs probably sell at a ratio of 10:1 compared to Mac Pros.

Try more 1:1000.

Our store sell a lot of iMacs, its very rare I see (saw) a Mac Pro going out the door. In over 4 years I personally have only had 3 enquiries, and each time financing was refused!

I did see one business deal that had 6 Mac Pros a few years back.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
Just curious, is it still available in the UK? Last I checked they were part of Europe but not the EU.
We have been in the EU since Jan 1st 1973.

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Originally Posted by Woodcrest64 View Post
Omg! Awesome rig mate! What do you do with that much power?
Check email

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Originally Posted by senseless View Post
The next Pro will clearly differentiate itself from the Imacs.

Of course. It will be 3 mm thick, weight only 10g and have 24TB of SSD. By connectig via the iCloudS it will be able to burn virtual blu-rays which will send to you in the post. The monitor will be a roll of flex glass that you can fold and put into a specially designed transporter pocket (optional extra) that attaches to the stand.

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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:32 AM   #143
threesixty360
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Mac Pro is more than money to Apple...

If your companies image is built on excellence then not producing a high end machine like the Mac Pro is crazy.

The marketing value having thousands of media professionals use your machines is worth more than the revenue they get from them. Even though "pro-sumers" make the most money for companies, the desire to buy pro-sumer products comes from the image the high end represents.

Canon make more from their t3i/650d's than their 5d/1d but that's what drives those sales. Same with pro-tools hd driving pro-tools le etc..

Apple are not stupid. They must understand the correlation.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:33 AM   #144
organerito
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Originally Posted by Larry-K View Post
Can we disband NATO now that we've discovered the real threat to Europe is MacPro Fan Blades? We really don't have the cash to spare anymore.
You can say whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that Apple was irresponsible and lazy about this issue.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:34 AM   #145
vmachiel
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I don't need a Mac Pro... ever. But Apple is pissing me off with this. Either they cancel the Machine or they tell users definitely that an update is coming with a small event.

It's not like the iPod classic where it doesn't really matter. People will move on from the platform if the future remains this uncertain.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:36 AM   #146
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:41 AM   #147
Lancer
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I'm sure anyone who absolutely needed a Mac Pro in the affected area will have placed their orders already.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:45 AM   #148
Sue De Nimes
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It would take Apple about 50p per machine to comply with these regulations.

One has to ask why they have taken the course of action they have?

I think the most likely explanation is Apple are poised to launch a new Mac Pro and have a little bit of stock they need to clear first. They have looked at sales figures against stock levels. They quite possibly have enough stock to get them to launch readiness of the new Mac Pro but only if they stop shipping in the EU.

The only reason that Apple have suspended sales in the EU is because the don't want to sell in the EU at this point in time.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:50 AM   #149
jesdw
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Oh no! Now I won't be able to configure my inner-nerd's dream machine to the highest spec, add to the basket and stare at the £16,000 subtotal until I give up and remove it.

(Seriously a shame for the pro community, but as mentioned, should pave the way for a long awaited update.)
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:51 AM   #150
SimonTheSoundMa
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Originally Posted by Raftysworld View Post
Why would anyone ever need a Mac Pro? An iMac does everything a Mac Pro does, but in a smaller, sleeker, more portable case.
ECC memory, a CPU that is extensively bug tested. I know people that work in CAD and DSP, the current generation of Intel desktop grade CPUs are buggy and give odd results after long computational tasks. Xeon lines are tested and bugs mostly fixed, any still present are released in documentation.

It's not simple calculations like 1+1=2 and comes out as 3. But heavy calculations where a lot of floating operations are made for example. You don't want to model airflow over a blade in a jet engine and find out the memory made an error or an incorrect calculation. Not just wasting money but also lives.

That's why Apple, HP, Dell etc make workstations. Benchmarks may not be massively different compared to cheaper desktop or laptops, but in mission critical or where life is at risk you need stability and accuracy.
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