Redesigned MacBook Air Reportedly Planned for 3Q 2013 Launch, Possibly with Retina Display - Page 5 - MacRumors Forums
Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:25 AM   #101
Northgrove
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by skellener View Post
I've heard the rMBP's are laggy because the GPU can't keep up pushing all those pixels. If the Pro can't handle it - how the heck is an Air gonna handle it?
I use a rMBP 15" and it's fine in OS X on Mountain Lion from what I can tell. Yes, websites with complex layouts can lag on scrolling a little bit more than on a traditional MBP released the most recent years, but it's not something that makes me frustrated or angry. For example, Gmail, Facebook, Macrumors are all completely lag-free on Firefox on this machine. Silky smooth scrolling. But there are the few sites, usually heavily ad-ridden, where it can sometimes be noticed.

And the MBA's already use the same GPU as the rMBP's use for OS X with default settings, so I think Apple already solved this problem with speed well enough although it's not a perfect diamond and just 90% there, so to speak.

I think the greater question (as I posted earlier here) is whether Apple will be able to meet the strict low power usage that people using Air's are used to by now, as well as weight, thickness, and price.
__________________
iPhone 5 • rMBP 15" (2012)
Northgrove is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:25 AM   #102
entatlrg
macrumors Demi-God
 
entatlrg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Waterloo & Georgian Bay, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemütlichkeit View Post
Call me crazy but the Air doesn't need retina or any of the performance hits when it comes to displaying that high of a resolution on a portable machine.

The pixel density is already good
The Air may not need a "retina" display but it ends a better display than it has now, fonts are too pixelated and fuzzy to my liking. (ESPECIALLY compared to my 13" rMBP
entatlrg is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:27 AM   #103
Bubba Satori
macrumors 68040
 
Bubba Satori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: B'ham
Quote:
Originally Posted by princigalli View Post
Macbook air is the future. The larger models will eventually phase out. I don't need a larger and heavier computer these days, so nobody else does. The Air can do everything I want.
fxt
Bubba Satori is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:27 AM   #104
Dwalls90
macrumors 68040
 
Dwalls90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
Haswell has the ability to power it. Ivy Bridge did not.
The discrete GPU in the 15" rMPB handles the resolution acceptably, not brilliantly. Haswells integrated GPU is not better than a decent discrete GPU.
Dwalls90 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:27 AM   #105
CausticPuppy
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by skellener View Post
I've heard the rMBP's are laggy because the GPU can't keep up pushing all those pixels. If the Pro can't handle it - how the heck is an Air gonna handle it?
The GPU can push the pixels just fine - the lag is due to software. And the current WebKit builds fix the scroll-lag issues completely.

Also, it has everything to do with single-threaded CPU performance, and virtually nothing to do with GPU.

Source: Anandtech
__________________
2011 Mac Mini Server, 16 GB RAM, 256GB Crucial M4 SSD, 500GB HDD + 3TB NAS
Haswell rMBP 13" - i7/512GB
Mac Mini 1.83GHz Core2Duo, 3GB RAM, 60GB SSD
iPad Air/iPhone5S
CausticPuppy is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:27 AM   #106
Dwalls90
macrumors 68040
 
Dwalls90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurix View Post
13.3'' Pro does not have dedicated GPU and still works fine
Define "fine".
Dwalls90 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:32 AM   #107
KPOM
macrumors G3
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobyh15 View Post
If they were to put a retina panel in the Air, what would separate it from the 13" rMBP? Would it become more expensive than the rMBP? That would definitely shake up the price points. I feel like the Air would go from the cheapest baseline to more expensive than the 13" rMBP. Same SSDs, RAM, and panel in a thinner and lighter design. Sounds more expensive to me. Just doesn't make sense at this point. What do you think?
There is already only a $100 price difference between the i7 Air and the base rMBP (whose full voltage processor has similar performance). It's possible that Apple will leave a non-Retina "budget" option for a time. It's also possible that, like today, they will use a lesser quality display (lower color gamut and/or contrast) to improve yields and keep the price differential.
KPOM is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:32 AM   #108
ls1dreams
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Why is it that the current line of MBP Retinas are thicker than the MBA's?

Since neither have an optical drive, and both use the same type of SSD's, I'm not really clear why the MBP-R is thicker.
ls1dreams is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:34 AM   #109
CausticPuppy
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls1dreams View Post
Why is it that the current line of MBP Retinas are thicker than the MBA's?

Since neither have an optical drive, and both use the same type of SSD's, I'm not really clear why the MBP-R is thicker.
Battery.
__________________
2011 Mac Mini Server, 16 GB RAM, 256GB Crucial M4 SSD, 500GB HDD + 3TB NAS
Haswell rMBP 13" - i7/512GB
Mac Mini 1.83GHz Core2Duo, 3GB RAM, 60GB SSD
iPad Air/iPhone5S
CausticPuppy is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:35 AM   #110
KPOM
macrumors G3
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by skellener View Post
I've heard the rMBP's are laggy because the GPU can't keep up pushing all those pixels. If the Pro can't handle it - how the heck is an Air gonna handle it?
It's software. The rMBP has no more pixels than the Apple Thunderbolt Display, which Apple has been selling as a "dock" for the MBA since 2011 when it had the HD 3000. The WebKit builds eliminate most of the lag, and we'll see them in 10.8.3. Plus, the Haswell Airs will have substantially improved GPUs.
KPOM is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:35 AM   #111
M-O
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by iphone495 View Post
I would be shocked if the next MacBook Air doesn't come with a retina display. REAL SHOCKED!
prepare to be shocked.
M-O is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:36 AM   #112
Chupa Chupa
macrumors G3
 
Chupa Chupa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Let me guess... the redesign will be so small it will fit on your wrist. Ha!
__________________
Walled Garden ≠ Prison:
"People who use Apple products considered their options, and chose Apple. If they regret their decision, they can dump it at any time." -- Harry McCracken, Technologizer.com
Chupa Chupa is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:37 AM   #113
Ryth
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
Because there is still a difference in the performance - the MBA will still likely use the more watered down versions of the i5 and i7 AND come with less RAM standard.....

Hasn't that really always been the main difference between the two machines....power?
Yes the main difference is resolution and the chip set. But have can offer the same dual cores but the 13" MBPr has the faster options.

But right now, for the casual/mid range user, these chipsets are plenty good to do almost all tasks that they need.

15" is going to be for higher end video/graphic professionals and other industries that need a lot of computing or GPU power.
Ryth is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:37 AM   #114
KPOM
macrumors G3
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwalls90 View Post
That would almost require a dedicated GPU, and would provide too much cross over with the Air and Pro w/ Retina. I don't think the 11" could drive retina, and there is already a 13" Pro w/ retina.

Seems like a bogus rumor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobyh15 View Post
If Apple is going to put a retina panel in a MacBook Air then they better have made significant leaps in battery and display tech. They cannot make the Air thicker for a bigger battery, they already have...it's a 13" rMBP... I don't know about this rumor. Little too good to be true.
Remember that Haswell will bring both power and GPU improvements. Some Ultrabooks will supposedly have 21 hour battery lives (I'm guessing using the 7W chips). Apple might decide that having a Retina Display with 8 hours of battery life is more important than non-Retina with 12+ hours.
KPOM is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:39 AM   #115
Ryth
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwalls90 View Post
The discrete GPU in the 15" rMPB handles the resolution acceptably, not brilliantly. Haswells integrated GPU is not better than a decent discrete GPU.
No one said Haswell is better then an integrated GPU.

The point is Haswell is better then Ivy Bridge for the 13" MBPR and will be the same for the 13" MBAR.

And yes, Haswell will bring a better experience to the 15" when the discrete GPU isn't running.
Ryth is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:39 AM   #116
smiddlehurst
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by skellener View Post
I've heard the rMBP's are laggy because the GPU can't keep up pushing all those pixels. If the Pro can't handle it - how the heck is an Air gonna handle it?
It's not the GPU it's the CPU believe it or not, at least when it comes to the OS. Anandtech did a great piece on this in their 13" rMBP review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6409/1...k-pro-review/5) but the short version is: Apple had to replace some code to enable retina to work. This code is somewhat less optimised and, of course, is doing a heck of a lot more work to drive the bigger resolution. As a result some applications consume 100% of a single CPU core and the frame rate suffers. You can see the same thing on the 15" model even using the discrete GPU, it's just not as bad as the CPU is faster than the options in the 13" model.

There's a couple of things that'll help this and it'd make sense if both arrived around about Q3 this year. The first is Haswell which will offer more performance at the same clock speed and, in theory, higher speeds for the same power consumption. This isn't a solution in and of itself but it won't hurt either. The second is Apple moving more of the rendering work for the OS to the GPU and it seems reasonable to assume that's a fairly high priority for the OS X team. Would either, or even both, of those allow a Macbook Air to run a Retina display? At this point there's no way to say for certain but it seems at least possible that it would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
It's software. The rMBP has no more pixels than the Apple Thunderbolt Display, which Apple has been selling as a "dock" for the MBA since 2011 when it had the HD 3000. The WebKit builds eliminate most of the lag, and we'll see them in 10.8.3. Plus, the Haswell Airs will have substantially improved GPUs.
Remember though the Retina Macbook's aren't just driving a hi-res panel. They're rendering AND scaling UI elements to match up to the desired resolution. Heck if you're using one of the non-default scaling options it's rendering at a higher resolution than the panel then scaling the whole lot back down. That's a lot more work than simply driving a hi-res display at its native resolution. You're right though, it is software and both GPU & CPU use need to be optimised accordingly.

Last edited by smiddlehurst; Feb 19, 2013 at 10:58 AM.
smiddlehurst is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:42 AM   #117
Tora Shin
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Preston, UK
It won't go retina. Firstly, that would make it almost identical to the pro. Secondly, the clue comes from how the 13" air has a resolution of 1440 x 900, and the old 13" pro only has 1280 x 800. They clearly didn't up the res on the pro because they knew the retina pro was coming. They wouldn't have bothered upping the air either if they were also going to bump that.
I think they'll just make it prettier: (lets be honest, it's pretty ugly), maybe with a smaller bezel.
Tora Shin is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:44 AM   #118
rovex
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
They'll go with a different paint job (grey as on ipad mini and iphone) but keep the core of the design the same.
rovex is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:47 AM   #119
jclardy
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
I feel the next update will still be non-retina. The HD 5000 should do fine even in the ULV version, but I don't see how they will make it on price when the 13" rMBP is $1500.

Also battery life would be another issue...they don't want to make it thicker as the 13" Air is already has a larger footprint and only 0.5 lbs lighter than the 13" retina Pro.

But it will be interesting. I guess it is possible, but I just don't see how they will hit price/battery/performance/size all at the same time.

Unless...this becomes their first ARM based laptop...
__________________
Swift Fox Software | Amounts - Expense Tracker | Rocket Chimp | TargetTap Lite | TargetTap
jclardy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:52 AM   #120
Miat
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
No Air retina yet, for a bunch of reasons, mainly battery life and not competing with the 13" MBPr.

Screen quality is the main weakness in the current Air, not the resolution. Apple should definitely switch to an IPS screen, at the current res (maybe bump the 13" to 1080, and the 11" to 800, vertical).

Plus Haswell chips, a/c WiFi, 8 GB RAM, and bigger SSDs.

That would be a sweet little machine.

Go retina around the end of 2014.
Miat is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:53 AM   #121
thrilllho
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Kill that bezel and stuff a larger screen in the 11...and I don't care whether or not it's a retina display.
thrilllho is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:53 AM   #122
FoxMcCloud
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
I'd like a black colour, and no more glowing Apple logo please. Laser etched will do nicely, or just black plastic like iPhone, iPad.
__________________
21.5" iMac 2009, 3.06 Ghz Core2Duo, 12GB RAM.
Mac Mini 2009, 2.0 Ghz Core2Duo, 4GB RAM.
iPhone 4, iPad 3, AppleTV 2 x2, Airport Express x2, TimeCapsule 2TB 2011.
FoxMcCloud is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:53 AM   #123
Moonjumper
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lincoln, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls1dreams View Post
Why is it that the current line of MBP Retinas are thicker than the MBA's?

Since neither have an optical drive, and both use the same type of SSD's, I'm not really clear why the MBP-R is thicker.
The MBA has a ULV processor, and so the battery requirements are not as large.

Haswell is one step to enabling a retina screen in the Air, but I think an IGZO screen is also required for thinness and battery use.
Moonjumper is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:54 AM   #124
Stetrain
macrumors 68040
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
I think we will see the single-piece-of-glass display style from the retina MBP's on the next gen Air, possibly along with an upgrade to IPS displays, but while keeping the same resolutions.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see a footprint reduction for the 13" Air. Currently the 13" rMBP is smaller than the 13" Air in width and length.
Stetrain is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:59 AM   #125
Elwe
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
I doubt a Macbook Air with Retina, too (in the near future)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSMBP View Post
Don't they already have 13" Air Retinas...13" rMBP? It's not like Apple didn't try to design the 13" rMBP to be as thin as possible.
I just do not see such a move, given the lack of history of Apple moving that quickly to a substantial redesign of its laptop nor desktop lines (i.e., two substantial changes requiring body/housing changes in two years). Given the needs of Retina including the power draw, I would guess Apple and suppliers are at where they are (with a reasonably battery life) with the current Macbook Pro 13" with Retina for at least two (probably more) years. Most reviews I read were not complaining about the size/weight of the machine (in comparison with the Air, which granted is still a significantly lighter design--though significant and critically important may not be the same things for the majority of people in this case ). Most people complained about a) the cost (Apple fixed this one recently. Hopefully, the current pricing stays in affect for Haswell); b) the lack of a quad core cpu (standard or optional). It seems like it at least will be feasible option with Haswell given the power reduction that Intel seems to have been successfully focusing on, rather than massive overall cpu performance increases; c) discreet graphics vs the integrated Intel solution of the day. I looked hard at the internals of the current 13" Retina body, and I see no hope for game/graphics enthusiasts there. Let's hope the GTx/HD5xxx is really as big a leap as Intel is leaking (though, for many people, the HD4000 seems to be OK, so Apple probably made the correct choice by not making the chassis any bigger nor degrading the run time any more by including an AMD or Nvidia card).

I would bet two cents that what we will see (as many people have already said) is a complete removal of the non-Retina Macbook Pro line combined with a positioning of the Macbook Air as the entry and probably majority line (for the next year or two when Retina displays still command a hefty premium). Probably bump the standard $999 11" config to 128GB SDD, add in Haswell, and call it a day. I would love them to knock a $100-200 off the base prices (would definitely help their market share), but I would not bet my precious two cents on that. As nice as Retina is (and it is, and not just because of the resolution), a 13" Macbook Air with 4gb of ram, 128GB, and Haswell at $999 is probably damn near a perfect machine for high school and college students, sys admins (if 11" is too small for comfort), and most managers and non-engineers in many corporate environments.
Elwe is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Warming-up for the all-new redesigned retina 2014 (2015?) MacBook Air skaertus MacBook Air 705 Yesterday 11:36 AM
Gaming - Macbook Air 11' mid-2013 vs Macbook Pro 13' Retina late-2013 kuanyu24 MacBook Pro 17 Jan 30, 2014 09:56 AM
Apple Reportedly Sourcing Thinner Components for 2013 MacBook Air and MacBook Pro MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 131 Dec 29, 2012 07:51 AM
13-Inch Retina MacBook Pro Reportedly Still on Track for 4Q 2012 Launch MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 128 Oct 21, 2012 09:04 AM
2013 Air to have Retina display? atMac MacBook Air 18 Aug 28, 2012 06:15 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC