Redesigned MacBook Air Reportedly Planned for 3Q 2013 Launch, Possibly with Retina Display

[Northgrove]

Originally Posted by skellener

I've heard the rMBP's are laggy because the GPU can't keep up pushing all those pixels. If the Pro can't handle it - how the heck is an Air gonna handle it?

I use a rMBP 15" and it's fine in OS X on Mountain Lion from what I can tell. Yes, websites with complex layouts can lag on scrolling a little bit more than on a traditional MBP released the most recent years, but it's not something that makes me frustrated or angry. For example, Gmail, Facebook, Macrumors are all completely lag-free on Firefox on this machine. Silky smooth scrolling. But there are the few sites, usually heavily ad-ridden, where it can sometimes be noticed.

And the MBA's already use the same GPU as the rMBP's use for OS X with default settings, so I think Apple already solved this problem with speed well enough although it's not a perfect diamond and just 90% there, so to speak.

I think the greater question (as I posted earlier here) is whether Apple will be able to meet the strict low power usage that people using Air's are used to by now, as well as weight, thickness, and price.

[entatlrg]

Originally Posted by Gemütlichkeit

Call me crazy but the Air doesn't need retina or any of the performance hits when it comes to displaying that high of a resolution on a portable machine.

The pixel density is already good

The Air may not need a "retina" display but it ends a better display than it has now, fonts are too pixelated and fuzzy to my liking. (ESPECIALLY compared to my 13" rMBP

[Bubba Satori]

Originally Posted by princigalli

Macbook air is the future. The larger models will eventually phase out. I don't need a larger and heavier computer these days, so nobody else does. The Air can do everything I want.

fxt

[Dwalls90]

Originally Posted by Ryth

Haswell has the ability to power it. Ivy Bridge did not.

The discrete GPU in the 15" rMPB handles the resolution acceptably, not brilliantly. Haswells integrated GPU is not better than a decent discrete GPU.

[CausticPuppy]

Originally Posted by skellener

I've heard the rMBP's are laggy because the GPU can't keep up pushing all those pixels. If the Pro can't handle it - how the heck is an Air gonna handle it?

The GPU can push the pixels just fine - the lag is due to software. And the current WebKit builds fix the scroll-lag issues completely.

Also, it has everything to do with single-threaded CPU performance, and virtually nothing to do with GPU.

Source: Anandtech

[Dwalls90]

Originally Posted by Futurix

13.3'' Pro does not have dedicated GPU and still works fine

Define "fine".

[KPOM]

Originally Posted by kobyh15

If they were to put a retina panel in the Air, what would separate it from the 13" rMBP? Would it become more expensive than the rMBP? That would definitely shake up the price points. I feel like the Air would go from the cheapest baseline to more expensive than the 13" rMBP. Same SSDs, RAM, and panel in a thinner and lighter design. Sounds more expensive to me. Just doesn't make sense at this point. What do you think?

There is already only a $100 price difference between the i7 Air and the base rMBP (whose full voltage processor has similar performance). It's possible that Apple will leave a non-Retina "budget" option for a time. It's also possible that, like today, they will use a lesser quality display (lower color gamut and/or contrast) to improve yields and keep the price differential.

[ls1dreams]

Why is it that the current line of MBP Retinas are thicker than the MBA's?

Since neither have an optical drive, and both use the same type of SSD's, I'm not really clear why the MBP-R is thicker.

[CausticPuppy]

Originally Posted by ls1dreams

Why is it that the current line of MBP Retinas are thicker than the MBA's?

Since neither have an optical drive, and both use the same type of SSD's, I'm not really clear why the MBP-R is thicker.

Battery.

[KPOM]

Originally Posted by skellener

I've heard the rMBP's are laggy because the GPU can't keep up pushing all those pixels. If the Pro can't handle it - how the heck is an Air gonna handle it?

It's software. The rMBP has no more pixels than the Apple Thunderbolt Display, which Apple has been selling as a "dock" for the MBA since 2011 when it had the HD 3000. The WebKit builds eliminate most of the lag, and we'll see them in 10.8.3. Plus, the Haswell Airs will have substantially improved GPUs.

[M-O]

Originally Posted by iphone495

I would be shocked if the next MacBook Air doesn't come with a retina display. REAL SHOCKED!

prepare to be shocked.

[Chupa Chupa]

Let me guess... the redesign will be so small it will fit on your wrist. Ha!

[Ryth]

Originally Posted by jrswizzle

Because there is still a difference in the performance - the MBA will still likely use the more watered down versions of the i5 and i7 AND come with less RAM standard.....

Hasn't that really always been the main difference between the two machines....power?

Yes the main difference is resolution and the chip set. But have can offer the same dual cores but the 13" MBPr has the faster options.

But right now, for the casual/mid range user, these chipsets are plenty good to do almost all tasks that they need.

15" is going to be for higher end video/graphic professionals and other industries that need a lot of computing or GPU power.

[KPOM]

Originally Posted by Dwalls90

That would almost require a dedicated GPU, and would provide too much cross over with the Air and Pro w/ Retina. I don't think the 11" could drive retina, and there is already a 13" Pro w/ retina.

Seems like a bogus rumor.

Originally Posted by kobyh15

If Apple is going to put a retina panel in a MacBook Air then they better have made significant leaps in battery and display tech. They cannot make the Air thicker for a bigger battery, they already have...it's a 13" rMBP... I don't know about this rumor. Little too good to be true.

Remember that Haswell will bring both power and GPU improvements. Some Ultrabooks will supposedly have 21 hour battery lives (I'm guessing using the 7W chips). Apple might decide that having a Retina Display with 8 hours of battery life is more important than non-Retina with 12+ hours.

[Ryth]

Originally Posted by Dwalls90

The discrete GPU in the 15" rMPB handles the resolution acceptably, not brilliantly. Haswells integrated GPU is not better than a decent discrete GPU.

No one said Haswell is better then an integrated GPU.

The point is Haswell is better then Ivy Bridge for the 13" MBPR and will be the same for the 13" MBAR.

And yes, Haswell will bring a better experience to the 15" when the discrete GPU isn't running.

[smiddlehurst]

Originally Posted by skellener

I've heard the rMBP's are laggy because the GPU can't keep up pushing all those pixels. If the Pro can't handle it - how the heck is an Air gonna handle it?

It's not the GPU it's the CPU believe it or not, at least when it comes to the OS. Anandtech did a great piece on this in their 13" rMBP review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6409/1...k-pro-review/5) but the short version is: Apple had to replace some code to enable retina to work. This code is somewhat less optimised and, of course, is doing a heck of a lot more work to drive the bigger resolution. As a result some applications consume 100% of a single CPU core and the frame rate suffers. You can see the same thing on the 15" model even using the discrete GPU, it's just not as bad as the CPU is faster than the options in the 13" model.

There's a couple of things that'll help this and it'd make sense if both arrived around about Q3 this year. The first is Haswell which will offer more performance at the same clock speed and, in theory, higher speeds for the same power consumption. This isn't a solution in and of itself but it won't hurt either. The second is Apple moving more of the rendering work for the OS to the GPU and it seems reasonable to assume that's a fairly high priority for the OS X team. Would either, or even both, of those allow a Macbook Air to run a Retina display? At this point there's no way to say for certain but it seems at least possible that it would.

Originally Posted by KPOM

It's software. The rMBP has no more pixels than the Apple Thunderbolt Display, which Apple has been selling as a "dock" for the MBA since 2011 when it had the HD 3000. The WebKit builds eliminate most of the lag, and we'll see them in 10.8.3. Plus, the Haswell Airs will have substantially improved GPUs.

Remember though the Retina Macbook's aren't just driving a hi-res panel. They're rendering AND scaling UI elements to match up to the desired resolution. Heck if you're using one of the non-default scaling options it's rendering at a higher resolution than the panel then scaling the whole lot back down. That's a lot more work than simply driving a hi-res display at its native resolution. You're right though, it is software and both GPU & CPU use need to be optimised accordingly.

[Tora Shin]

It won't go retina. Firstly, that would make it almost identical to the pro. Secondly, the clue comes from how the 13" air has a resolution of 1440 x 900, and the old 13" pro only has 1280 x 800. They clearly didn't up the res on the pro because they knew the retina pro was coming. They wouldn't have bothered upping the air either if they were also going to bump that.
I think they'll just make it prettier: (lets be honest, it's pretty ugly), maybe with a smaller bezel.

[rovex]

They'll go with a different paint job (grey as on ipad mini and iphone) but keep the core of the design the same.

[jclardy]

I feel the next update will still be non-retina. The HD 5000 should do fine even in the ULV version, but I don't see how they will make it on price when the 13" rMBP is $1500.

Also battery life would be another issue...they don't want to make it thicker as the 13" Air is already has a larger footprint and only 0.5 lbs lighter than the 13" retina Pro.

But it will be interesting. I guess it is possible, but I just don't see how they will hit price/battery/performance/size all at the same time.

Unless...this becomes their first ARM based laptop...

[Miat]

No Air retina yet, for a bunch of reasons, mainly battery life and not competing with the 13" MBPr.

Screen quality is the main weakness in the current Air, not the resolution. Apple should definitely switch to an IPS screen, at the current res (maybe bump the 13" to 1080, and the 11" to 800, vertical).

Plus Haswell chips, a/c WiFi, 8 GB RAM, and bigger SSDs.

That would be a sweet little machine.

Go retina around the end of 2014.

[thrilllho]

Kill that bezel and stuff a larger screen in the 11...and I don't care whether or not it's a retina display.

[FoxMcCloud]

I'd like a black colour, and no more glowing Apple logo please. Laser etched will do nicely, or just black plastic like iPhone, iPad.

[Moonjumper]

Originally Posted by ls1dreams

Why is it that the current line of MBP Retinas are thicker than the MBA's?

Since neither have an optical drive, and both use the same type of SSD's, I'm not really clear why the MBP-R is thicker.

The MBA has a ULV processor, and so the battery requirements are not as large.

Haswell is one step to enabling a retina screen in the Air, but I think an IGZO screen is also required for thinness and battery use.

[Stetrain]

I think we will see the single-piece-of-glass display style from the retina MBP's on the next gen Air, possibly along with an upgrade to IPS displays, but while keeping the same resolutions.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see a footprint reduction for the 13" Air. Currently the 13" rMBP is smaller than the 13" Air in width and length.

[Elwe]

Originally Posted by FSMBP

Don't they already have 13" Air Retinas...13" rMBP? It's not like Apple didn't try to design the 13" rMBP to be as thin as possible.

I just do not see such a move, given the lack of history of Apple moving that quickly to a substantial redesign of its laptop nor desktop lines (i.e., two substantial changes requiring body/housing changes in two years). Given the needs of Retina including the power draw, I would guess Apple and suppliers are at where they are (with a reasonably battery life) with the current Macbook Pro 13" with Retina for at least two (probably more) years. Most reviews I read were not complaining about the size/weight of the machine (in comparison with the Air, which granted is still a significantly lighter design--though significant and critically important may not be the same things for the majority of people in this case ). Most people complained about a) the cost (Apple fixed this one recently. Hopefully, the current pricing stays in affect for Haswell); b) the lack of a quad core cpu (standard or optional). It seems like it at least will be feasible option with Haswell given the power reduction that Intel seems to have been successfully focusing on, rather than massive overall cpu performance increases; c) discreet graphics vs the integrated Intel solution of the day. I looked hard at the internals of the current 13" Retina body, and I see no hope for game/graphics enthusiasts there. Let's hope the GTx/HD5xxx is really as big a leap as Intel is leaking (though, for many people, the HD4000 seems to be OK, so Apple probably made the correct choice by not making the chassis any bigger nor degrading the run time any more by including an AMD or Nvidia card).

I would bet two cents that what we will see (as many people have already said) is a complete removal of the non-Retina Macbook Pro line combined with a positioning of the Macbook Air as the entry and probably majority line (for the next year or two when Retina displays still command a hefty premium). Probably bump the standard $999 11" config to 128GB SDD, add in Haswell, and call it a day. I would love them to knock a $100-200 off the base prices (would definitely help their market share), but I would not bet my precious two cents on that. As nice as Retina is (and it is, and not just because of the resolution), a 13" Macbook Air with 4gb of ram, 128GB, and Haswell at $999 is probably damn near a perfect machine for high school and college students, sys admins (if 11" is too small for comfort), and most managers and non-engineers in many corporate environments.