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Old Feb 21, 2013, 12:59 PM   #251
gorskiegangsta
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Originally Posted by diamond.g View Post
They are using AMD APU if the press release is to be believed. That means the CPU and GPU are already on one die. So the price should be fairly inexpensive.
That does indeed seem to be the case. By the looks of it, they'll be using the "Jaguar" architecture, most likely by coupling two quad-core Jaguars together. Even $100 apiece bulk price for those is really pushing it, so it'll probably be around $80 or so.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:03 PM   #252
Taz Mangus
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
To irritate people on an Apple forum?
That is what you do, not well but you try. Come on don't deny it.

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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
Do you feel the same about Apple?
Thanks for proving my point.

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Originally Posted by diamond.g View Post
It comes out this Christmas season, they showed games being manipulated by a real person.
If this was an Apple event, with what was shown people would be fawning all over it. I would be surprised if Apple had big games ready to go with how they don't send out development hardware.
Please show the video where Apple ever had an event to announce a product and showed no product and gave no price. Let me guess there aren't any.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:06 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorskiegangsta View Post
That does indeed seem to be the case. By the looks of it, they'll be using the "Jaguar" architecture, most likely by coupling two quad-core Jaguars together. Even $100 apiece bulk price for those is really pushing it, so it'll probably be around $80 or so.
It is also wonderful that said Jaguar processors are also going to be in tablets/netbooks later this year. AMD stands to make a lot of money. They also claim "1080p" gaming from the fGPU and performance boosting while docked or on AC power.

Microsoft stands to benefit the most since porting games from the Xbox to the Xbox Store on Windows 8 requires next to no effort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV-U50Viv_k
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:10 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Taz Mangus View Post
That is what you do, not well but you try. Come on don't deny it.

Thanks for proving my point.
Just because you don't like what I post means I am trying to irritate people here? I find there are many people here who share my viewpoints on the various topics that we discuss. And I proved your point because I asked someone who criticized Sony for their propriety if they felt the same way about Apple, the king of propriety and closed wall garden? I am quite objective.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:40 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
I wasn't directly comparing the two. I'm just comparing the sales figures. What I was getting at is that Apple TV's volume is comparable right now and they don't even have gaming capability...YET. If and when they do, Apple TV will explode.


I don't think Apple's hardware will rival the console makers - Sony/MS/Nintendo (SMN) - anytime soon. Maybe never. BUT, I don't think they need to. My opinion is that the majority of people who buy consoles *aren't* hardcore gamers. Here's my reasoning:

I think we can deduce this by looking at a popular console exclusive game like Halo 3. It's the best selling game on the XBox 360, and it's been on sale for 5 1/2 years now. The cumulative worldwide sales is just over 11 million. Cumulative sales for the XBox 360 just hit 76 million. Let's say the Halo 3 buyers are all hardcore gamers (probably not all of them are - since Halo 3 was packaged with quite a few XBox's as well). That would suggest that less than 1/7 of all XBox 360 buyers are hardcore gamers. Let's be generously conservative though and say that 1/4 of all XBox 360 owners are hardcore gamers and will buy the next XBox 360 no matter what. That would mean there are 57 million XBox owners who could be swayed to forego the next console if a $99 Apple TV could fulfill basic gaming needs like Fruit Ninja, or have yoga or Nike workout type "games" that don't need a console's graphic power.

The new consoles would have to provide something so above and beyond the current consoles in terms of gameplay or story that people would feel compelled to pay the $300 + $40-60 games. The novelty of the Wii controller, Sony Move, and Kinect has worn off. Increased realism in FPS isn't making them any more enjoyable. Just look at the titles available for consoles. MOST of them don't need a console's graphics power. So why would you buy a $300 console to play them? Remember that it took a damn long time for the PS3 to outsell the PS2 and spec-wise, it was considerably better. How much better can the eye-candy be for the PS4? Will it be so mind-blowing that it can get all 77 million buyers to upgrade again? I highly doubt it.

The way I see this current argument is the same one that Blu-Ray owners made about 4-5 years ago. A lot of them insisted that Blu-Ray would win because it was the best video/audio quality spec-wise. I was among the people who thought that while Blu-Ray would remain a viable medium, streaming would overtake it. The reasoning is simple: the vast majority of consumers are looking for good enough, not the best. Compressed video streaming at 1080P is good enough and conveniences outweigh any decrease in video quality. Blu-Ray has never surpassed DVD in cumulative sales and has already long been outsold by iTunes movies. Why? They're *good enough*. Blu-Ray is not dead yet, but it's never going to surpass streaming/downloads.

Likewise, gaming on an Apple TV may not surpass any gaming console based on specs, but the convenience and savings of downloading a game that costs less than $10 will crush the console makers. I think that will have the added effect of driving the big game makers to divert more resources towards developing games for the Apple TV.

I wouldn't worry to much if you're a hardcore gamer. I think the big titles will always be made because they sell so well. On the plus side, there might be less crap game titles produced for the consoles too. But no console will ever sell as much as the current crop of consoles have again, and Apple TV will outsell the consoles by an order of magnitude.
I would bet that less than 10% of XBOX 360 owners buy the console to play games like Fruit Ninja or some yoga game. Do not confuse casual 360/PS3 gamers with overall casual gamers.

My sister plays Fruit Ninja, Angry Birds, UNO, Bejeweled, and other similar games. She is the definition of a casual gamer at heart. Casual console gamers pick up a few games a year and thats it. Madden, 2K Basketball, Halo, CoD, GTA, Forza, GT. They play a few games and thats it, they don't have huge a huge library of games and may not even play the games they own that much. This gamer may be hardcore to a particular game but not a hardcore gamer in the sense that they buy and play many games on a consistent basis. They don't go online to discuss gaming and don't really care what is happening in the industry. All they want to do is play Cod and some Madden.

No $99 Apple TV is going to be able to deliver CoD or Madden with the same visuals as the PS4/XBOX 720. People who want to play Fruit Ninja will do so on their phone or tablet like they do right now. It might be something they do in front of a TV on the rare occasion but thats about it.

You're are wrong in thinking that the same people who only want to play casual games like Fruit Ninja are the same people who buy consoles.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:56 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Bill Killer View Post
It was released on November 11, 2006 in the US (its primary market).



It was released on December 17, 2011 in Japan, with announced released dates of February subsequently.



In the market where Sony makes the vast majority of its money, they have stuck to their announced retail dates. I think you're faulting Sony for announcing the release date for US retailers and thinking European retailers are sticking to those dates, as well.
I couldn't give a monkeys nuts when it was released in the US or Japan as I live in the UK. They said it would available everywhere before Xmas (including the UK) and it wasn't. That was my point. I don't trust them to release the PS4 in the UK before this Xmas. I hope I'm wrong as I might actually buy one if it's any good unless Apple comes up with something awesome later this year such as an Apple Television that's great for playing games on.

I don't have the figures to hand but I would be very surprised if the US represented a bigger proportion of Sony revenues than Europe. I suspect that Japan is their number one market.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:35 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by 3N16MA View Post
I would bet that less than 10% of XBOX 360 owners buy the console to play games like Fruit Ninja or some yoga game. Do not confuse casual 360/PS3 gamers with overall casual gamers.

My sister plays Fruit Ninja, Angry Birds, UNO, Bejeweled, and other similar games. She is the definition of a casual gamer at heart. Casual console gamers pick up a few games a year and thats it. Madden, 2K Basketball, Halo, CoD, GTA, Forza, GT. They play a few games and thats it, they don't have huge a huge library of games and may not even play the games they own that much. This gamer may be hardcore to a particular game but not a hardcore gamer in the sense that they buy and play many games on a consistent basis. They don't go online to discuss gaming and don't really care what is happening in the industry. All they want to do is play Cod and some Madden.

No $99 Apple TV is going to be able to deliver CoD or Madden with the same visuals as the PS4/XBOX 720. People who want to play Fruit Ninja will do so on their phone or tablet like they do right now. It might be something they do in front of a TV on the rare occasion but thats about it.

You're are wrong in thinking that the same people who only want to play casual games like Fruit Ninja are the same people who buy consoles.
I was only using Fruit Ninja as an example. And as I wrote already, Apple TV probably won't ever have the technical specs that are offered by consoles. However, they don't need to.

I have a couple of simple questions for you: 1) What is your evidence that the majority of the 77 million owners of the PS3 (or 76 million owners of Xbox 360), are hardcore gamers?
2) What do you think will drive the majority of these 77 million owners to buy the PS4 or next XBox360? Better visuals? Sharing? My point is, you need to have some kind of "hook" to get all those people to move to a new platform. One which Sony executives "hope" will not cost $599. That doesn't sound promising. I think visuals have gotten to the point that more realism is not going to impress anyone except the most hardcore gamers. I still have yet to see any proof that the majority of console owners are hardcore gamers. I used to be one, and then my PS3 eventually got used primarily to watch Netflix and Hulu. When I mentioned this to my 6 other friends with PS3's, they all said the exact same thing. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I suspect this is more common than you might think.

As I said, the PS4 will sell ok. But a gaming enabled Apple TV will outsell all the others by a lot and eat a lot of their sales.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:29 PM   #258
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What kind of announcement is this? We already knew a new PS4 was coming. So "announcing" the obvious future product name with no type of hardware info is useless. Give some sort of teaser, a visual of part of the console, or a few specks. This was a total meh.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:39 PM   #259
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The PS4 is going to open some doors for smaller gaming developers, and that's what I think this presser was really all about: third party attraction. They are desperately trying not to repeat the disaster of the PS3 launch.
And this is why I'm annoyed when people say they announced nothing... Sony actually addressed three things in that announcement that the PS3 was infamous for, developer support, RAM amount (so low in the PS3 it didn't run games like Skyrim well), and loading times.

Sony actually showed they got smart and can learn from their mistakes and we can expect this one to not fall into the same traps. And also that they want to make it more fun for gamers who like to socialize/play with other gamers (something the Xbox was better known for as well and Sony now will have a hurdle trying to convince that type of gamer to come back).

This announcement wasn't just about teasing people, it was to show they got smart and this time they acknowledge what they should be doing.

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Originally Posted by flottenheimer View Post
I've owned most of all the popular consoles since the NES. I loved my original PlayStation (still have one), I really liked my PS2 (still have one) and I'm fine with my PS3.

But, I'm getting less and less excited about new consoles. It feels like every time I want to play a game with my kids there is a new system update for the PS3 or a game update that needs to be downloaded and installed first. Or the controllers have run out of power and need to be wired. Or there is a game disc that the kids can't find. And the price of a new game is somewhere between 10 to 70 times the price of an iOS game.
— All this seriously harms the pleasure of turning on the PS3. Especially the technical stuff. And especially for the kids (boy aged 7 and girl aged 10), they seriously don't want to go through "all the trouble with the PS3". So they simply grab our iOS devices — or their MacBook Pros — and game like mad (Minecraft, TeanFortress 2, Dungeon Defenders, BeGone and Pet City are their all time favorites). And they enjoy doing lots of creative stuff on our iOS devices — drawing, making stop motion movies, taking photos etc.

The announcement of the PS4 — I seriously do not feel any excitement at all. None.
I'm pretty sure the PS4 will be the first PlayStation since 1995 that I wont buy.
And this is exactly one of the problems Sony addressed in the announcement (the fact that people got fed up with loading times and having to download stuff on every new game).

For your complaint, did you not notice at all their whole announcement about being able to play while you downloaded, or how if you turn "off" the PS when you turn it back on it's ready to play your game right where you left off (It has a super power saving mode so doesn't fully go off).

I fail to see how you can't be excited about this announcement (unless it's a "too late now" thing) when they directly addressed what you claim was your major problem with the PS3.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:46 PM   #260
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Well, maybe this event was to get developers interested, not the consuming public as much, sort of like iOS preview events.
Maybe, but i'm not a developer and they sent me several emails regarding the "huge announcement". I have a ps3, bought it when the 3rd xbox dies, don't get me wrong I'm not "dissing" playstation as a whole, I simply didn't see anything for me to be excited about. I'm skeptical that sony is going to pull off any kind of "eco system" or cloud. From what i've seen of their network in the 4 years I've owned my ps3 I'd be impressed if they could pull off a media event without having the site to stream it down while the event is going on... oh wait that's exactly what happened LOL
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:48 PM   #261
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:52 PM   #262
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All that social media stuff is something I don't need. All I want is a great gaming experience. Where are the good old days. No online gaming just you and you friends on the sofa playing games hardcore. Those were the golden years in gaming kids.
It seems that is the way gaming is going though. Xbox already gets some advantage cause it has the better social platform for gaming, they already have shown Sony needs to step up their game in this aspect.

But, if it makes you feel better, I agree. I'd rather play with my friends on the sofa than with random stranger online. It's much more fun when they are right there with you and you can heckle each other. At least with the PS4 it seems they might be making it pretty easy to do that online and make it more like the person is there with you.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:58 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
I couldn't give a monkeys nuts when it was released in the US or Japan as I live in the UK. They said it would available everywhere before Xmas (including the UK) and it wasn't. That was my point. I don't trust them to release the PS4 in the UK before this Xmas. I hope I'm wrong as I might actually buy one if it's any good unless Apple comes up with something awesome later this year such as an Apple Television that's great for playing games on.

I don't have the figures to hand but I would be very surprised if the US represented a bigger proportion of Sony revenues than Europe. I suspect that Japan is their number one market.
I don't care about the UK, so I don't have this pissy attitude toward's Sony and this apparent lack of trust in the company.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 04:03 PM   #264
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Oh my yes. I can't wait to see what Microsoft pulls out of their bag now. They're going to have to do something great to compete with that, and drop their plans to block second hand games now that Sony announced they won't block them!
Wait, when did Sony announce that? I'd be interested where you got that info cause that was something I was worried about. And yeah, if they really aren't going to block used games and MS does, that's really going to hurt MS. Especially if MS is as stupid as one rumor seems to make them (saying the DRM will require you be online at all times to play games).
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 04:18 PM   #265
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Please show the video where Apple ever had an event to announce a product and showed no product and gave no price. Let me guess there aren't any.
True. Thought anyone that has followed consoles expects at least six months lead time till the console comes out. Usually consoles are announced at E3.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 04:24 PM   #266
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Wait, when did Sony announce that? I'd be interested where you got that info cause that was something I was worried about. And yeah, if they really aren't going to block used games and MS does, that's really going to hurt MS. Especially if MS is as stupid as one rumor seems to make them (saying the DRM will require you be online at all times to play games).
http://www.t3.com/news/ps4-will-not-...ond-hand-games
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 04:35 PM   #267
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I just wanted to leave with this note. A lot of you guys are wondering where the actual games or box or whatever.

Sony did not get a good start to the last gen with PS3 and everyone was pretty down on them being behind initially behind on network connectivity. This presentation they got the major specs out, major features, a message of a very developer centric and friendly environment and how they are going to be about us. Remember the PS3 launch, that was the height of Sony's own arrogance where everything was about them.

They got points across, final specs aren't set in stone yet, but everything out there suggests a system overall 50% better than the next Xbox. Not only that, but developers can use that hardware easily.

More or less a, "Hey we are going to be amazing and this is how" moment for them. Sony had something to prove because of pasts mistakes and Mark Cerny even made a nod to that. All of it seems like they have the right people doing the right things this time around.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 04:43 PM   #268
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What kind of announcement is this? We already knew a new PS4 was coming. So "announcing" the obvious future product name with no type of hardware info is useless. Give some sort of teaser, a visual of part of the console, or a few specks. This was a total meh.
Did you even watch the announcement? They did release specs.

http://www.psu.com/a018441/PS4-specifications-in-full
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 04:46 PM   #269
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Did you even watch the announcement? They did release specs.

http://www.psu.com/a018441/PS4-specifications-in-full
Does seem like people are dazed and confused 100% of the time? lol
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 05:02 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
I was only using Fruit Ninja as an example. And as I wrote already, Apple TV probably won't ever have the technical specs that are offered by consoles. However, they don't need to.

I have a couple of simple questions for you: 1) What is your evidence that the majority of the 77 million owners of the PS3 (or 76 million owners of Xbox 360), are hardcore gamers?
2) What do you think will drive the majority of these 77 million owners to buy the PS4 or next XBox360? Better visuals? Sharing? My point is, you need to have some kind of "hook" to get all those people to move to a new platform. One which Sony executives "hope" will not cost $599. That doesn't sound promising. I think visuals have gotten to the point that more realism is not going to impress anyone except the most hardcore gamers. I still have yet to see any proof that the majority of console owners are hardcore gamers. I used to be one, and then my PS3 eventually got used primarily to watch Netflix and Hulu. When I mentioned this to my 6 other friends with PS3's, they all said the exact same thing. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I suspect this is more common than you might think.

As I said, the PS4 will sell ok. But a gaming enabled Apple TV will outsell all the others by a lot and eat a lot of their sales.
Given the fact that I consider myself as 'no core' gamer I nevertheless would like to point out "It's the games, stupid." I own all current consoles but everyone has its own system seller.

No, I don't need the common FPS iteration (that's why the Killzone demo didn't impress me that much), but as a matter of fact Quantic,'s tech demo was insane. And Capcoms DeepDown also wowed me.

It's games like Forza or God of War that are system sellers. Watchdog was pretty insane too but it's no exclusive.

And I want to play games with that kind of depth and experience. AFAIK nothing compares to games like these on iOS. So count me in for the next gen. But I will wait and see what MS brings on the table before deciding which will be the first.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 05:15 PM   #271
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I don't have the figures to hand but I would be very surprised if the US represented a bigger proportion of Sony revenues than Europe. I suspect that Japan is their number one market.
I havent seen any recent numbers on US/Europe, but Japan is by far the smallest of them. Last numbers I saw US/EU had around 20 million each, with japan 7-8 million.

Its actually been that way for as long as I can remember. Japan was only ever considered the most important because that is where all the best selling software came from and it was believed that no one could get strong Japanese developer support without a strong presence in the market. Things have clearly changed; western devs are now on top and the Xbox 360 has proven that, even with abysmal JP market support, the jp developers will follow the numbers.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 05:20 PM   #272
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While ios cAn harm the handheld gamer there is no chance that they can creep on the ps/xbox turf with apple tv, its 2 seperate beasts
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 05:29 PM   #273
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The specs of the PS4 blow the expected specs of the new Xbox out the water.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 05:33 PM   #274
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While ios cAn harm the handheld gamer there is no chance that they can creep on the ps/xbox turf with apple tv, its 2 seperate beasts
This is my thought. Most people aren't interested in carrying an iPhone and a Nintendo DS; so there's a choice to be made. However, the Apple TV and a PS4 can both happily co-exist under the TV. I don't think an AppleTV threatens the PS4, one of the first things Sony said last night was that they aren't interested in being a media center... the PS4 is a game machine for gamers.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 06:39 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
Its a good thing that device designers don't listen to you, or they'd be making devices for which there is no addressable market above one person.

Two-display systems, however...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tqIVmF3MPg

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"Who said this?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tqIVmF3MPg
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