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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:14 PM   #226
AppleScruff1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlink View Post
Nothing to be careful about. Just stating the truth. Anyone who owns an iPad 3rd Gen (which includes me) and thinks they were wronged because Apple released the 4th Gen 6 months later is an idiot. Pure and simple.

The 3rd Gen is still an amazing device that does everything that it did when I bought it. The release of the 4th Gen did absolutely nothing to change that.
This is what you posted:
And those people are just as stupid as Brazil.

I said be careful, thinking that you were implying that Brazilians were stupid. There had been posts of this nature earlier in the thread, that's all.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:15 PM   #227
Lancer
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Seriously suing a company for releasing a new product too soon, and we thought they were bad in the US?
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:16 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Cubytus View Post
Untrue. Apple has an extremely tight control on what is sold and at what price in third party stores. That's why you don't see much of a difference when switching stores, except on value-added services such as training or (non-Apple) accessories.
I was referring to staff interaction and in store marketing, not pricing.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:20 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by barcellos View Post
I try be more proud about my country. But sometimes I cant, like this lawsuit!

I'm from São Paulo.
I have a friend that just moved back to Sao Paulo after 10 years here in the US. My wife is from Goiania. There are a lot of Brazilians here in Massachusetts, the majority of them from Minas.

Brasil has a lot to offer and they have two great opportunities to show the world with the upcoming World Cup next year and the Olympics in 2016. Keep the faith.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:21 PM   #230
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When a new version of something comes out does the old version stop doing what it was bought for in the first place?

I don't get it, seems like penis envy to me.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:22 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
The question is whether one in a hundred consumers could tell you what a Lightning connector is, let alone how it differs from another kind. Since this was your point I think it's up to you to explain it.
Hmm. I said:
Quote:
Whichever side of lawsuits you are on, that's a very obvious physical difference.
You said "consumers could tell you", implying in a conversation instead of at a store, staring at the two connectors. Not I. So, I repeat that I am not dodging your line of discussion.

I think I've already made my point about how people buy stuff, even people that are not tech nuts like us. And frankly, if they do it on marketing alone instead of looking at the product, then they deserve whatever product they let someone sell them. I don't see litigation as a solution, either.
Quote:
Pretty soon I hope you will get that I am not commenting on the Brazil lawsuit.
Considering that the update makes it sound like there isn't even a lawsuit in the first place, that's hopefully what everyone will do.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
We need serious lawyer control laws!
I apologize for previous comments about your sense of humor.

This was damn funny!!
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:25 PM   #232
Lancer
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Originally Posted by AJTC View Post
The only part of this article I agree with is the part about customers unknowingly buying the 3rd generation after the 4th generation was released.

There was no way for the average customer to distinguish between them and here in Ireland I thought it was really bad to walk into a store and see the 3rd generation still on sale at Christmas with the same price tag as the 4th generation.
But this would be a case against the resellers (Apple or others) and not the manufactures. I know the average customer walking in to a store probably has no idea when a new product has been released.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:26 PM   #233
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Apparently this entire lawsuit is actually fictional. But if it weren't, it's hilariously bad. Perhaps if Apple actually stated they would release on a yearly schedule, but there is no explicit promise as to release dates based on previous release cycles.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:29 PM   #234
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Perhaps what the lawsuit is (or should be) about is the fact that you buy an ipad 3 for example and you are not quick enough to install the necessary apps - you won't be able to later. Even though the ipad 3 is perfectly capable to run that certain app - in the near future when you try to install that app you won't be able to because Appstore doesn't keep older versions you bought. And the newer app version won't support your ipad 3.

Maybe this would be a better reason for that brazilian lawsuit.

And for the question "Just because there is a newer ipad means your ipad 3 doesn't work anymore ?" in this situation you can answer with a yes.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:33 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian... View Post

And for the question "Just because there is a newer ipad means your ipad 3 doesn't work anymore ?" in this situation you can answer with a yes.
What I find amusing is that on MR, there are people who make statements that just because a new device came out doesn't mean theirs stopped working. Some of the same people (to my recollection) do have issues though when there's an OS feature that isn't available on their older device and/or their wireless carrier allows one segment to access a feature but outdated/grandfathered plans don't get it.

Consistency is apparently not all that important when it comes to some people's logic and/or gripes.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:36 PM   #236
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I seem to remember a few years ago Apple updating the 20/24" iMac and then just months later releasing the new design 21/27" iMac's.

Did anyone complain back then?
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:43 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barcellos View Post
I try be more proud about my country. But sometimes I cant, like this lawsuit!

I'm from São Paulo.
I have posted this reply in other forums, but here it goes again:

Even as a Brazilian I find it extremely difficult to agree with such a lawsuit - it is more than clear that Apple has provided sufficient information for potential customers in Brazil to make their purchasing decisions. However, most of the usually US-centric comments in this thread ignore that different countries follow different consumer protection principles, particularly those with a clear European Continental Law background like Brazil. Whereas in the US one normally follows the principle of contractual freedom and little else, in many other countries you can have comprehensive statutes which do, indeed, play an important role against possible abuses by vendors and service providers.

In any case, the only theoretical possibility that a judge might consider refers to misleading publicity, if it is proven beyond doubt that Apple deliberately fooled the public in buying an outdated device (see excerpt of article 37 below):

"§ 1° É enganosa qualquer modalidade de informação ou comunicação de caráter publicitário, inteira ou parcialmente falsa, ou, por qualquer outro modo, mesmo por omissão, capaz de induzir em erro o consumidor a respeito da natureza, características, qualidade, quantidade, propriedades, origem, preço e quaisquer outros dados sobre produtos e serviços."

Having said the above, I still consider this as just another easy case for Apple - they won't have to spend much time on it.

p.s.1: For the "enlightened" citizens of the US of A here, please understand one thing: your country is, BY FAR, the most prodigal in frivolous lawsuits, particularly class-action suits like the one above...if in doubt, go check the pathetically-funny Stella Awards.

p.s.2: Brazil is not the new China, and never will become one. We are western people with western values and have ZERO similarity with low-cost sweatshops in Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe and Central America. So go read more about the country instead of spouting nonsense.

p.s.3: Apple devices are expensive in Brazil because of HIGH import taxes aimed at fostering local manufacturing (exactly what YOU are asking for now in your own country - LOCAL plants), numerous indirect taxes and the excessive willingness to pay more of many middle- and higher-class Brazilians. This is not Burundi, ya know...
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:43 PM   #238
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Since they are suing Apple, about five Brazilian lawyers should be enough. How many is a "Brazillion"?
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:48 PM   #239
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FYI - for those that haven't gone back to the source article. It appears as though, for now, this story is completely unconfirmed
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:52 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barcellos View Post
I try be more proud about my country. But sometimes I cant, like this lawsuit!

I'm from São Paulo.
Typical mongrel dog-complex comment from a fellow Brazilian - "oh, my country is so bad at everything and Brazilians are so stupid" - just to remember that you are a Brazilian yourself; there is no room for "us and them".

So stop seeing only the half-empty side of the glass, please - this is not only wrong but a tiresome stereotype.

Our country is already the 6th largest economy in the world, with beautiful/friendly people, the largest agricultural, mineral and beef production, various world-champion companies, the third largest aircraft maker, a strong defense industry, lots of great entrepreneurs and professionals around the world, an increasingly-educated population formed just like the US with European, Asian and African immigrants, a huge internal market, unique cultural values and productions and an overall purchasing power that is behind only a few countries nowadays.

So a little patriotism would go a long way, ya know.

Last edited by 50548; Feb 21, 2013 at 02:08 PM.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:54 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
Typical mongrel dog-complex comment from a fellow Brazilian - "oh, my country is so bad at everything and Brazilians are so stupid" - just to remember that you are a Brazilian yourself; there is no room for "us and them".

So stop seeing only the half-empty side of the glass, please - this is not only wrong but a tiresome stereotype.

Our country is already the 6th largest economy in the world, with beautiful/friendly people, the largest agricultural, mineral and beef production, various world-champion companies, the third largest aircraft maker, a strong defense industry, lots of great entrepreneurs and professionals around the world, an increasingly-educated population formed just like the US with European, Asian and African immigrants, a huge internal market, unique cultural values and productions and an overall purchasing power that is behind only to a few countries nowadays.

So a little patriotism would go a long way, ya know.
Bravo. That was the point I was hoping to make to him with my comments.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:58 PM   #242
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It's funny how many here jump on the bandwagon based on nothing more then a rumor. Which is turning out to be hogwash, calm down fellas.

I think the only people who even care about the mid year cycle release are the few apple upgrade fanatics that must have everything newly apple.

If anything most of the iPads going on sale are from people downgrading to the iPad mini then upgrading to iPad 4.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:02 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAT View Post
You said "consumers could tell you", implying in a conversation instead of at a store, staring at the two connectors. Not I. So, I repeat that I am not dodging your line of discussion.

I think I've already made my point about how people buy stuff, even people that are not tech nuts like us. And frankly, if they do it on marketing alone instead of looking at the product, then they deserve whatever product they let someone sell them. I don't see litigation as a solution, either.
Your argument is difficult to follow. To reiterate, my point is that most consumers would not likely notice a difference between the iPad generations. Not by looking at the box, which does not provide that distinction, and probably not by looking at the device, unless they knew what they were looking for. Further if you are expecting most consumers to understand the difference between a 30-pin and Lightening connector then I think you are imposing your tech-nut orientation on the problem and not seeing things the way most people do.

Which leads directly to the concept that people "get what they deserve." This is a blanket excuse for all kinds of shenanigans that aren't good practice in business, or in some cases, allowed.

Again, I hope at some point you will understand that I am not commenting on the Brazilian litigation (or lack thereof).
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:12 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
Your argument is difficult to follow. To reiterate, my point is that most consumers would not likely notice a difference between the iPad generations. Not by looking at the box, which does not provide that distinction, and probably not by looking at the device, unless they knew what they were looking for. Further if you are expecting most consumers to understand the difference between a 30-pin and Lightening connector then I think you are imposing your tech-nut orientation on the problem and not seeing things the way most people do.

Which leads directly to the concept that people "get what they deserve." This is a blanket excuse for all kinds of shenanigans that aren't good practice in business, or in some cases, allowed.

Again, I hope at some point you will understand that I am not commenting on the Brazilian litigation (or lack thereof).
You make an excellent point - particularly in the sense that, in many countries, Apple devices take longer to be released due to market priorities and local regulatory requirements...so it may be that Apple sells the iPad 3 at a high premium in Brazil just as the iPad 4 is released or is about to be launched there.

Whenever visiting Brazil, it's very difficult to tell whether I am looking at the latest version of devices such as the iPad exactly for the reasons above...so this lawsuit (if there is any) may not be that "ludicrous" after all, bearing in mind such domestic considerations.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:15 PM   #245
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IF this were true, then there are many other technology products that could be included. One model comes out with a nice, new or improved feature. Next year, a slightly improved model is introduced. That just is not planned obsolescence.

I paid a pretty penny for my DSLR. Every year another model is released with an improvement in the LCD size, the resolution / number of pixels, the shutter speed range, the ISO-equivalent range, etc. Each feature could be released on one model, but then what would the company do next year to generate more sales?

Nothing breaks down and nothing needs replacing or repairing. Not planned obsolescence.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:17 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Daalseth View Post
the US isn't the only country with sleezy lawyers willing to sue over anything. In the US I'd say this would be tossed out within seconds. In Brazil...?
If it was Samsung being sued you'd be cheering them on for fighting the good fight.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:25 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
Your argument is difficult to follow. To reiterate, my point is that most consumers would not likely notice a difference between the iPad generations. Not by looking at the box, which does not provide that distinction, and probably not by looking at the device, unless they knew what they were looking for. Further if you are expecting most consumers to understand the difference between a 30-pin and Lightening connector then I think you are imposing your tech-nut orientation on the problem and not seeing things the way most people do.

Which leads directly to the concept that people "get what they deserve." This is a blanket excuse for all kinds of shenanigans that aren't good practice in business, or in some cases, allowed.

Again, I hope at some point you will understand that I am not commenting on the Brazilian litigation (or lack thereof).
Again, people don't seem to have that problem with other Apple products. Other than the iPhone and the iPad 2, none of the major Apple products are renamed when they are upgraded.

But, again, what was being discussed was your claim that the 3rd and 4th gen iPads are physically identical. Which is obviously not true.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:35 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by barcellos View Post
I try be more proud about my country. But sometimes I cant, like this lawsuit!

I'm from São Paulo.
Your country has produced the greatest soccer players of the world, you should be proud, next year hope they will hold the World cup soccer trophy high, it is because of some lawyers and policy makers that make the poor decision.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:41 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Again, people don't seem to have that problem with other Apple products. Other than the iPhone and the iPad 2, none of the major Apple products are renamed when they are upgraded.

But, again, what was being discussed was your claim that the 3rd and 4th gen iPads are physically identical. Which is obviously not true.
On point one - what people? How do you know other people around the world have no issue? You or I don't. I don't think the naming convention is really the major component of the (now debunked) suit.

I agree that the term identical is the wrong word. But there's no use in clinging onto that specific word (now) because the conversation has progressed and he's stated what he actually meant. He may not admit to whether or not identical was the right word choice - but it's clear what his point was. Crystal clear, if you ask me.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:50 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by tigres View Post
you have got to be kidding me.

Brazil, go buy your tech elsewhere. Say, from 5 years ago.
Well... you clearly don't know what happens here in Brazil. Instead of selling iPad 4, Apple Store and resellers still sell iPad 3 without any information about this. The ads shows only:

Buy iPad
"iPad 2" and "iPad with Retina Display"

After months from the launch day, the iPad Mini and iPad 4 aren't available here yet. This is ok, but ads don't point that the iPad they are selling aren't the latest iPad that newspapers and magazines shows as "the latest Apple tablet".

I'll read the news in portuguese, but I presume that this is the main issue, nothing related to programmed obsolescence.
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