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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:22 AM   #101
Oletros
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Originally Posted by CptnJustc View Post
The problem is that the potential for judges to be hired later provides perverse incentives for judges ruling on cases earlier, even without an outright promise of compensation or even any coordination between the two parties.
So we must don't allow judges to retire and work in the private sector?
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:22 AM   #102
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... I also wonder why Samsung needed to hire this particular judge. Surely they could have found other experts.
Best of luck with that. You can almost count the number of proper IP experts on both hands. It's not exactly the most riveting, and therefore not the most attractive legal field.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:22 AM   #103
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This is outrageous! Apple should have this judge thoroughly investigated and exposed !
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:22 AM   #104
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Smells fishy....

I always thought that ruling was rather childish...
The Judge was hired AFTER the ruling was made against Apple last year!

Nothing to see here. Move along people...
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:23 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
So if you're a judge you're screwed and can never be a consultant? If you never know if a company will be looking to hire you, how can you have perverse incentives? That makes little logical sense to me. A judge will always be voting one way or the other based on whatever the facts are or interpreted to be against the law. So there will always be a winner or loser (unless it's thrown out). How does this fact make a judge subject to perverse incentives?
But it's judge who ruled against Apple in a case against Samsung who now consults for Samsung.

Last edited by AppleScruff1; Feb 28, 2013 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:26 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
But it's s judge who ruled against Apple in a case against Samsung who now consults for Samsung.
True, but if he had ruled in favour of Apple and then ended up employed at Samsung, people with an Apple centric view would still be claiming that it is a conflict of interest, using some bull argument such as he's helping them find a way around the ruling.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:29 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
So we must don't allow judges to retire and work in the private sector?
Sure we do and sure they can.... however, they should use better judgement on who they consult for... not a smart move for this judge to work for Samsung... makes him look tainted. I'm sure there were plenty of other companies he could consult for.

For a judge, this is just plain poor judgement on his part. Amazing what greed will do.

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Originally Posted by Ciclismo View Post
True, but if he had ruled in favour of Apple and then ended up employed at Samsung, people with an Apple centric view would still be claiming that it is a conflict of interest, using some bull argument such as he's helping them find a way around the ruling.
No... that would have been okay... in fact, if this guy actually went to work for Apple now as a consultant, that would be okay too... but since he ruled in a favor of Samsung in a very widely covered case, this was not smart on his part.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:31 AM   #108
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Yes. Because we love to learn that even if the judge is hired by Samsung to be their consultant, he can act professionally and be as impartial as before in his profession as a judge. This is a role model for all of us. Even if I'm paid by one side I can still be impartial. Great.
You do realise that he won't be allowed to proceed over hearings involving Samsung, and possibly Apple, for a very, very long time. And he'll probably be retired by then.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:31 AM   #109
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... However, in accordance with section 9 of the Senior Courts Act 1981, he has continued on occasion since that date to sit as a judge in the High Court and the Court of Appeal. Sir Robin is currently a Door Tenant at 8 New Square Chambers. [5]
Interesting! Seems like there should be some kind of waiting period (couple of years?)... that if you retire as judge, you can't consult for entities on cases that you've recently worked on.

Continuing to work in High Court after retirement and while entering the private sector
IMO, gives a bad impression of the entire justice system (especially if he's consulting for any of the parties that he recently ruled on).

.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:32 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Popeye206 View Post
No... that would have been okay... in fact, if this guy actually went to work for Apple now as a consultant, that would be okay too... but since he ruled in a favor of Samsung in a very widely covered case, this was not smart on his part.
The appeal court ordered that the notice has to been put only as a foot link on the UK page and not on the front page of all of the EU pages and only for one month and not for 6. If had been hired by Apple they have looked tainted because he softened the original ruling.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:33 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Popeye206 View Post
Sure we do and sure they can.... however, they should use better judgement on who they consult for... not a smart move for this judge to work for Samsung... makes him look tainted. I'm sure there were plenty of other companies he could consult for.

For a judge, this is just plain poor judgement on his part. Amazing what greed will do.[COLOR="#808080"]

-
How do you know his motivation is greed? You don't. You have no idea why he took the job.

Seriously - there's no story here. A retired judge started a new job.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:40 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Seriously - there's no story here. A retired judge started a new job.
As I said, Florian Mueller has got what he intended, he has spread FUD.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:41 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Ciclismo View Post
Best of luck with that. You can almost count the number of proper IP experts on both hands. It's not exactly the most riveting, and therefore not the most attractive legal field.
There all over in this forum and OCN, getting an IP expert should be pretty easy I think
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:42 AM   #114
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I'm not surprised. Samsung are just a circus act at the moment.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:42 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Giuly View Post
So, a screen size can be outdated? Interesting. Oh, you mean like 17" laptops.

Then by all means buy 8" phones, so the majority can have ones that actually fit in their pocket again.
Yes screen sizes can be outdated. Would you use one of those small feature phone screens on a smartphone?
Click image for larger version

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I didn't think so. And the pocket argument is just a terrible excuse and you know it
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:44 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by bobenhaus View Post
Yeah a lot of gullible people thinking the judge was paid off by Samsung. He probably wanted to retired and got a good offer from Samsung because of his expertise in patent law. I think any normal person would probably do exactly what this judge did if the money was good. Anything to get people upset and page counts. Enough is enough. Social media is the new Enquirer.
He is already retired as a judge - he was invited back for this case, presumably due to his considerable expertise in IP law. He is exactly the sort of chap I would expect Samsung to be looking at hiring.

The timing is a little unfortunate, but it doesn't suggest any impropriety IMO.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:52 AM   #117
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I find this amusing.

Retired judge hired as a private consultant for company that liked his ruling
=
Bribery and INJUSTICE!!!!!


Active Judge rules in favour of apple, who had previously worked for law firm representing apple
No, nothing to see here.

you guys make me giggle.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:52 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
So if you're a judge you're screwed and can never be a consultant?
Basically, at least as long as you want to appear to be adhering to a rigorous ethical standard. It should be something you know going into the gig. But there are plenty of alternative career paths for a highly trained legal mind after retirement. Some places put legal restrictions on their public employees post-retirement for exactly these reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
If you never know if a company will be looking to hire you, how can you have perverse incentives? That makes little logical sense to me. A judge will always be voting one way or the other based on whatever the facts are or interpreted to be against the law. So there will always be a winner or loser (unless it's thrown out). How does this fact make a judge subject to perverse incentives?
Perhaps he believes one company is more likely to hire him than another for any number of reasons. Or perhaps he believes one company has a stronger case, but if he's angling for a job post-retirement, he can exaggerate his position in an effort to get noticed.

And no, it's not always going to be a contest between two rich private sector companies.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 10:56 AM   #119
samcraig
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Originally Posted by CptnJustc View Post
Basically, at least as long as you want to appear to be adhering to a rigorous ethical standard. It should be something you know going into the gig. But there are plenty of alternative career paths for a highly trained legal mind after retirement. Some places put legal restrictions on their public employees post-retirement for exactly these reasons.



Perhaps he believes one company is more likely to hire him than another for any number of reasons. Or perhaps he believes one company has a stronger case, but if he's angling for a job post-retirement, he can exaggerate his position in an effort to get noticed.

And no, it's not always going to be a contest between two rich private sector companies.
So it's totally fine to make wild accusations and/or suppositions of what might be happening vs - you know - looking at the situation objectively and understanding that this is a real non-issue.

Perhaps you're perhapsing a lot.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:00 AM   #120
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So it's totally fine to make wild accusations and/or suppositions of what might be happening vs - you know - looking at the situation objectively and understanding that this is a real non-issue.

Perhaps you're perhapsing a lot.
I'm making no accusations in this particular case (so perhaps you're the one assuming too much). I'm saying that, in general, the opportunity to retire into a cushy private-sector job opens up the potential for impropriety. If it becomes widespread, as it has in Japan, it could become part of a public employee's expectations and become especially pernicious.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:01 AM   #121
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Given the British public and government officials current disdain for corruption due the long gestating Rupert Murdoch debacle Apple should investigate some alternate channels to get solutions, hell I wouldn't be against them dragging this crook through the mud publicly in Britain and see if they can get some justice. When people are dirty like that they tend to have skeletons in the closet that could use some unearthing.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:02 AM   #122
CptnJustc
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
So we must don't allow judges to retire and work in the private sector?
I don't know if there should be a legal solution, but one possibility is for judges at least as an ethical standard not to retire and work in the private sector for companies with cases they've (especially recently) ruled upon.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:03 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by CptnJustc View Post
I don't know if there should be a legal solution, but one possibility is for judges not to retire and work in the private sector for companies with cases they've (especially recently) ruled upon.
I do agree with this. I think it's a personal ethic's thing.

I do however think that he did nothing wrong.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:04 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Imhotep397 View Post
Given the British public and government officials current disdain for corruption due the long gestating Rupert Murdoch debacle Apple should investigate some alternate channels to get solutions, hell I wouldn't be against them dragging this crook through the mud publicly in Britain and see if they can get some justice. When people are dirty like that they tend to have skeletons in the closet that could use some unearthing.
Assuming he is dirty? I like when people is so quick to accuse others of corruption.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:10 AM   #125
samcraig
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Originally Posted by CptnJustc View Post
I'm making no accusations in this particular case (so perhaps you're the one assuming too much). I'm saying that, in general, the opportunity to retire into a cushy private-sector job opens up the potential for impropriety. If it becomes widespread, as it has in Japan, it could become part of a public employee's expectations and become especially pernicious.
Ok. But back to this subject in specific.

The assertion that the judge in question might know that "one day" he might be hired as a consultant by Samsung (let alone anyone else) is not only unknown but also doesn't indicate that judges in general have "perverted incentives" to rule in any one's favor.

Apple could have easily have hired him because of his tenacity going after them (perhaps they hated the ruling but - by gum - he was a pit bull) when they went after someone else. Would people be batting an eyelash here? Doubt it.

But because this guy (who was only one of the judges) is now involved with a company on an entirely different case - well after the dust has settled (and how long is long enough?) against yet another company - clearly he's corrupt according to some? Yeah OK. Sure.

Again - tin foil hat time. And that's why it was posted here. Great click and post bait. I'm victim of it too

----------

OMG

Dr. Jueng Jil Lee is corrupt and greedy. He did his job at LG and clearly he knew by being so good at his job, he'd be asked by Apple to join their team.

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/08/...om-lg-display/

About as crazy.

Oh - and the same goes for Jim Mergard

http://gizmodo.com/5951051/apple-hir...om-apple-chips
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