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Old Feb 28, 2013, 08:13 PM   #1
luisramos
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Mac Pro and Windows 8

Hi guys,

I have a 2012 Mac Pro 12-core running windows 7 with bootcamp.
I'd like to know if someone is running windows 8 smoothly with bootcamp in a macpro, and if it's better for work than 7 (i work with 3d).


Thanks!
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 01:40 PM   #2
kevink2
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For something like a Mac, I would think the only advantage of Windows 8 would be if you can find it cheaper than 7. I bought it (for a VM) earlier this year because I could get an upgrade for $29. 7 was much pricier.

I have 7 in VM on my laptop, and prefer that.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 03:22 PM   #3
scottsjack
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Originally Posted by luisramos View Post
Hi guys,

I have a 2012 Mac Pro 12-core running windows 7 with bootcamp.
I'd like to know if someone is running windows 8 smoothly with bootcamp in a macpro, and if it's better for work than 7 (i work with 3d).


Thanks!
I'm running W8 Pro on my 2010 Mac Pro 3.2 quad. I prefer to run each OS on its own hard drive. That way I can run one OS without effecting the other.

My W8 boot drive is named "BOOTCAMP" because I installed the Bootcamp W7 drivers on it. I used the Mac Pro install disk and Apple update to bring thinks up to date.

W8 is a pleasure to use. It benchmarks about the same as ML except of course for video performance. The ATI 5870 gets along with Windows much better than with Mac.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 10:39 PM   #4
mseth
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I'd stay away from Windows 8. The drivers are generally OK but I've ran into issues after updating them as requested by Windows Update. They have yet mature (only Apple can issue proper drivers and until they release them for Windows 8, it's not a good idea.)

The OS is slightly faster to boot / shut down but from a UI perspective it is horrible especially for multi-tasking and pro work. If you need a clean and stable environment, stick with Windows 7.

Last edited by mseth; Mar 4, 2013 at 07:06 PM.
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 09:03 AM   #5
nox-uk
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I've got both MAC OS and Win 8 running off a single SDD on an apricorn velocity PCIE card.

I wouldn't of bothered upgrading to win 8 apart from people at work were starting to ask me about it and I don't like giving advice about things I've not used!!

It works... as smoothly as any other Microsoft OS :P

Nox
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 01:05 PM   #6
deconstruct60
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Originally Posted by kevink2 View Post
... I would think the only advantage of Windows 8 would be if you can find it cheaper than 7. I bought it (for a VM) earlier this year because I could get an upgrade for $29. 7 was much pricier.
Windows 8 upgrades aren't that low anymore ( since Jan 31 ). There is a system builder version around $99. But Win 7 is about the same price.
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 01:27 PM   #7
deconstruct60
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[QUOTE=luisramos;16925175]... and if it's better for work than 7 (i work with 3d).

Actually, it "happens to work" for Win 8. Supposedly there are some improvements coming with 10.8.3 where Apple is actually going to put it into the supported configurations for BootCamp (along with dealing with the 3TB Fusion set ups which don't push Windows into the zone where the BIOS layer can't see it).

Whatever improvements come in Bootcamp associated with 10.9 may make a difference. At some point Apple has to go a BootCamp that can boot Windows via EFI so can leave behind legacy BIOS limitations (like 3+ TB drives ).
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 02:14 PM   #8
scottsjack
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I'd stay away from Windows 8. The drivers are generally OK but I've ran into issues after updating them as requested by Windows Update. They have yet mature (only Apple can issue proper drivers and until they release them for Windows 8, it's not a good idea.)

The OS is slightly faster to boot / shut down but from a UI perspective it is HORRIBLE especially for multi-tasking and pro work. If you need a clean and stable environment, stick with Windows 7.
"HORRIBLE especially for multi-tasking and pro work" sounds like you're talking about Metro. Who on Earth would want to use Metro anyway for anything?

I had a problem upgrading from W7 to W8. Everything worked just fine except that at some point later W8 always lost the ability to read the keyboard. Mac wired keyboard, Aser wired keyboard, Mac BT keyboard or even the W8 on-screen keyboard, none of them worked. A few keys like Control registered but no letters or numbers.

After six or so tries I gave up and bought a Keep it Genuine (or whatever it's called) license for $70.00 (still cheap). It works like a charm (no pun intended) and boots from EFI. I'm really happy with W8's desktop performance and stability. Office 2010, PS CS5 and all of my other Windows software work as expected.

Now, about that Windows 8 Desktop. As has been universally established Metro really sucks. Metro's apps are so bad as to seem unreal, like a bad joke.

I installed Start8 and it works perfectly, no more Metro unless I want to go there. I also installed Ex7forW8 which installs the Windows 7 Explorer into W8. That brings back the real Start button and causes Metro to not even be loaded. It's totally as if Metro had never been released from the bowels of Hell.

Only one problem has shown up from Ex7forW8. Using mouse button #3 on an app like Explorer does not open a second copy. Other than that it's perfect so far. Also Ex7forW8 can be set to either boot the W7 W8 Explorer. Very slick. I can go back and forth between W8/Start8 and W8/Ex7forW8. Very nice.
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 03:01 PM   #9
kevink2
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Windows 8 upgrades aren't that low anymore ( since Jan 31 ). There is a system builder version around $99. But Win 7 is about the same price.
Earlier this year

I was able to upgrade my 32 bit XP Home on VMWare Fusion to 8 Pro 64 bit. Which at least 2 cores and, for now, 6GB of RAM. So it gets 6 out of my 14GB, and 2 out of 8 cores. Starts up faster for when I need a Windows system.
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 03:20 PM   #10
Tesselator
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I don't understand the comments about Metro being bad... The Metro based start-screen is however you want it to be. It's completely configurable. You can put any apps you want there and remove any (or all) if you so desire. The screen switching is fast and smooth even on minimal hardware. It's really nothing more than an app launcher with live notification capabilities. Everything can be turned on or off as you like.

So for me it's really strange to read comments like above. I think it implies that they don't actually have a full understanding of what they're using.

Before anyone gets their panties in a wad I'm not saying it's "better" than OS X. "Better" isn't even a quantifiable term when using it to describe software interface components.

I think I like Win8 better than Win7 myself. Win8 is all around faster than Win7 and like Mountain Lion vs. Lion, there are many features additions not available in the previous version. As well, there are an increasing number of applications which require it.

I try to avoid using Windoze whenever I can but in considering which one to install and build upon there's little question that it should be Win8 - unless your environment is fixed, stagnant, and already built around Win7 that is... of course.

Last edited by Tesselator; Mar 3, 2013 at 03:27 PM.
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 03:42 PM   #11
star-affinity
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I don't understand the comments about Metro being bad... The Metro based start-screen is however you want it to be.
The problem I feel with Windows 8 is that it feels like you're using two operating systems at once. One ”fullscreen only, best for touch input” GUI and one ”desktop” or ”traditional point and click with a mouse” OS. This experience can get a bit schizophrenic at times since the two aren't really separated, but rather running at the same time in parallel. You get thrown in and out of the other as you move along with different tasks.

I don't really see a point why I'd like to get thrown into a ”fullscreen, only designed for touch input” on my desktop computer. And the settings are even separatem you have settings in the touch GUI (Modern GUI, is it?) and then the classic settings for the desktop environment. May I can get used to it, but I really don't see the point.

I can see a point on a laptop where you can ”tear off” the screen so it becomes a tablet, but on a desktop computer with a mouse and keyboard I don't really see the benefit.
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 04:00 PM   #12
Tesselator
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The problem I feel with Windows 8 is that it feels like you're using two operating systems at once. One ”fullscreen only, best for touch input” GUI and one ”desktop” or ”traditional point and click with a mouse” OS. This experience can get a bit schizophrenic at times since the two aren't really separated, but rather running at the same time in parallel. You get thrown in and out of the other as you move along with different tasks.

I don't really see a point why I'd like to get thrown into a ”fullscreen, only designed for touch input” on my desktop computer. And the settings are even separatem you have settings in the touch GUI (Modern GUI, is it?) and then the classic settings for the desktop environment. May I can get used to it, but I really don't see the point.

I can see a point on a laptop where you can ”tear off” the screen so it becomes a tablet, but on a desktop computer with a mouse and keyboard I don't really see the benefit.
I see your point. But a couple of things... 1st, you can see that as "a problem" or as an upgrade slash feature addition just based on how you decide to look at things. For mouse and KB users it's hot roll-over corners. Faster information consumption, faster system state overview, less clicks, less effort, etc. And 2nd I think this is a good indication of the kinds of transitions which will be forced on us over the remainder of the decade. Not dissimilar to Apple's own Magic TrackPad and all the buzz about surface computing from the likes of MS and Corning Glass, I think it serves as an excellent indication of the kind of future we will be led into. The only question is if we will go willingly, kicking and screaming, or dismantle and destroy the whole thing. I personally vote for the later as resistance is futile and all our bases belonged to them!


BTW, I wonder if you're old enough to recall that the exact same arguments you bring up here were also made when we were led into a windows environment from the blinking DOS prompt?

Resolutions:
http://www.oostdam.info/index.php/se...able-metro-gui
http://gizmodo.com/5972918/six-hidde...t-live-without

Additional Musings:
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/artic...out_the_finder
http://mac.appstorm.net/roundups/uti...e-os-x-finder/
http://superuser.com/questions/89619...n-snow-leopard
http://arstechnica.com/business/2011...irtualization/
http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/10/GUI-Less-Windows


.

Last edited by Tesselator; Mar 3, 2013 at 05:21 PM.
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 04:53 PM   #13
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I'd stay away from Windows 8. The drivers are generally OK but I've ran into issues after updating them as requested by Windows Update. They have yet mature (only Apple can issue proper drivers and until they release them for Windows 8, it's not a good idea.)

The OS is slightly faster to boot / shut down but from a UI perspective it is HORRIBLE especially for multi-tasking and pro work. If you need a clean and stable environment, stick with Windows 7.
This is total and utter baloney, it is just as good if not better than Windows 7 for multi tasking. I have a Win 8 install at home, and I could never go back to 7. It feels far too old and slow. The only thing that is "horrible" for multi-tasking is if you want to live solely in the modern apps environment, but who does that? You just don't need to. Windows 8 is like Windows 7+.
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 05:06 PM   #14
Derpage
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If you want to run Windows 8 just get: http://www.classicshell.net/

It allows you to customize your experience and add a lot of features from older version of Windows.

I haven't had any problems with 8 as far as stability or compatibility.
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Old Mar 4, 2013, 06:58 PM   #15
mseth
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This is total and utter baloney, it is just as good if not better than Windows 7 for multi tasking. I have a Win 8 install at home, and I could never go back to 7. It feels far too old and slow. The only thing that is "horrible" for multi-tasking is if you want to live solely in the modern apps environment, but who does that? You just don't need to. Windows 8 is like Windows 7+.
Far from it, actually. It is the truth and there seem to be many that agree with this. If you use multiple 27" or larger displays like myself (at home or at work), the entire interface is absolutely ridiculous to work with (or around). No one wants a 30" start menu with massive icons and text in your face, stay away from Windows 8 at any cost. There is a serious lack of driver compatibility as well.

All metro apps are a waste of screen space. If you press the hot key for switching between classical apps and had a metro app open (paused), it'll rip you out of everything you're doing into a full screen app that seems to take forever to load.

Now you have to waste time getting third party apps just to get the classical environment back. If you use multiple monitors and have many applications open and you move your mouse near the corner of your display to access a menu or tool in the app, Windows 8 will pop up it's own thing; start icon, multi tasking bar, charms bar, show desktop....

If you want to search for a setting, you have to open a giant full screen start menu, type and then select "settings" from the side, then click on the setting you want. Compared to Windows 7 where you can get to almost any system app or setting by just typing in the start menu. In most cases, Windows settings open up in full screen unless you access them manually. Multi tasking with full screen apps that have massive icons and text on multiple 27" (2560x1440) or 30" (2560x1600) is a disaster. Constant switching between what feels like high dpi and low dpi interfaces.

That is the truth and there is no denying the truth.
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Old Mar 4, 2013, 07:54 PM   #16
Tesselator
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Far from it, actually. It is the truth and there seem to be many that agree with this.
But all the same people (or their parents) said all the same things with every single new Windows release since Windows V1.0 - Really, honest... they did.. I was there.

And it always pans out that they were wrong and just a few tweaks could get them back to their old styles of doing things - yet still retain many if not all the benefits of the newer code.

In fact I wouldn't doubt that with some heavy tweaking we could get Win8 to look, feel, and act just like Win98, 2000, NT4, or any other version we wanted.

So far in this thread we've pretty much proven beyond any doubt that this is the case yet again.
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Old Mar 4, 2013, 08:09 PM   #17
mseth
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But all the same people (or their parents) said all the same things with every single new Windows release since Windows V1.0 - Really, honest... they did.. I was there.
Windows 7 *probably* holds the majority of installations currently and just like Windows XP, it isn't going to go away for years to come. This is even morose true considering that Microsoft plans to release yearly OS updates as per the Windows Blue rumours. In the long term, Windows 7 is still a more stable option especially if you require it in creative/professional work.

I certainly won't pay a hundred bucks (or whatever they want) every couple of years on a Windows license. Software is written off at the end of the year and investing in software every single year per machine is outrageous. Windows 7 has been around since 2009 and the install base is still growing.

I will however, continue to upgrade to the latest Apple software and hardware because they do a significantly better job than the competition.
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Old Mar 4, 2013, 08:15 PM   #18
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In the long term, Windows 7 is still a more stable option especially if you require it in creative/professional work.
But there's absolutely no empirical evidence of this being true. Or if there is could you point it out to us?


In fact if you believe the developer change_logs just the opposite is true. Neither can be proven IMO. And of course as time goes on or "in the long term" as you put it, all the major applications will try and support Win8 eventually leaving Win7 the more unstable option. And that started about 6 or 8 months ago already - longer for some.
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Old Mar 4, 2013, 08:25 PM   #19
mseth
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But there's absolutely no empirical evidence of this being true. Or if there is could you point it out to us?


In fact if you believe the developer change_logs just the opposite is true. Neither can be proven IMO. And of course as time goes on or "in the long term" as you put it, all the major applications will try and support Win8 eventually leaving Win7 the more unstable option. And that started about 6 or 8 months ago already - longer for some.
No there probably isn't. Interestingly enough, the OP hasn't posted back in the thread. Businesses I've worked for are just to conservative financially and don't have the IT resources to tinker with new OS upgrades. The OS will probably get better over time as you have pointed out.
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Old Mar 4, 2013, 08:45 PM   #20
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Yeah, smaller content creation boutiques typically wait a project or two (like /after the first service pack/ or so) and then in-between major projects make the switch.

I think larger firms do it a department at a time or even fractions of departments at a time.

That's only being smart...

For individuals all that's needed is being in-between projects with the more cautious waiting for the first round of bug-fixes.
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Old Mar 6, 2013, 07:07 PM   #21
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Running Windows 8 Pro on a second internal HD here's a video of me setting up windows 8 on my Mac Pro and it runs smooth

http://youtu.be/SruMDQmjGs8
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Old Mar 6, 2013, 08:42 PM   #22
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...I'd like to know if someone is running windows 8 smoothly with bootcamp in a macpro, and if it's better for work than 7 (i work with 3d).
Your apps are probably a bigger factor of going forward than the OS. If the 3d apps you typically use appear to have issues with 8 it would OK to wait a while to update.

If the app vendors say that Win8 is a supported/approved/tested OS and the associated support forums seem to being align with that ( keeping in mind there are always a subset of folks who complain about anything different) then move.

You may want to wait for 10.8.3 which is suppose to add Bootcamp support for Win8. It can work now. Less quirks or potential quirks later.

Not sure what the hold up on 10.8.3 is....... Apple appears to be attempting to make it as stable as possible ( or there is some product that needs it that isn't out yet) .
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Old Mar 6, 2013, 10:52 PM   #23
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2.93GHz Dual 6-Core
32GB of Ram
1GB 5870

Running Windows 8 Pro on a second internal HD here's a video of me setting up windows 8 on my Mac Pro and it runs smooth

http://youtu.be/SruMDQmjGs8
Yep.. some of the differences between Win7 and Win8 remind me a lot of some of the differences "Android Butter" brought to the new versions of Android OS. Smooth and well tuned but somewhat storyboarded as they present the masses with canned predetermined "presented" methods of use and workflow - from gestures to interapplication "techniques and procedures".

Luckily for us brats these systems are complex enough and layered well enough that we can throw all the pillows on the floor, cut up the couches, run around barefoot and rebellious, and still not lose out on the advantages.


Last edited by Tesselator; Mar 6, 2013 at 10:58 PM.
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Old Mar 6, 2013, 11:45 PM   #24
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I have W8 running 99% flawlessly on a separate SSD drive in both Bootcamp and VMWare Fusion 5. Only one issue, the Apple volume level display doesn't show up when the keys are pressed (though they still work).
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Old Mar 7, 2013, 08:42 AM   #25
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I see your point. But a couple of things... 1st, you can see that as "a problem" or as an upgrade slash feature addition just based on how you decide to look at things. For mouse and KB users it's hot roll-over corners. Faster information consumption, faster system state overview, less clicks, less effort, etc. And 2nd I think this is a good indication of the kinds of transitions which will be forced on us over the remainder of the decade. Not dissimilar to Apple's own Magic TrackPad and all the buzz about surface computing from the likes of MS and Corning Glass, I think it serves as an excellent indication of the kind of future we will be led into. The only question is if we will go willingly, kicking and screaming, or dismantle and destroy the whole thing. I personally vote for the later as resistance is futile and all our bases belonged to them!


BTW, I wonder if you're old enough to recall that the exact same arguments you bring up here were also made when we were led into a windows environment from the blinking DOS prompt?

Resolutions:
http://www.oostdam.info/index.php/se...able-metro-gui
http://gizmodo.com/5972918/six-hidde...t-live-without

Additional Musings:
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/artic...out_the_finder
http://mac.appstorm.net/roundups/uti...e-os-x-finder/
http://superuser.com/questions/89619...n-snow-leopard
http://arstechnica.com/business/2011...irtualization/
http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/10/GUI-Less-Windows


.

Less clicks? I don't know…
Sure I might be the way things are heading right now but it doesn't mean it will be something that sticks. But we'll see. I doubt Apple will go down the ”2 in one” path for OS X, though. Launchpad might be an indication of the opposite, but personally I don't see any point in using it so it's a good thing it's an option, whereas the ”touch-GUI parts” of Windows 8 feels more forced upon you.

But we'll see how things evolve.

I understand people can be skeptical to change and be wrong (switch from DOS prompt to Windows), but you must agree change in itself isn't necessarily a good thing. Just because this way of mixing two GUIs is a new approach it doesn't need to be a positive change. But like I said, we'll see…

As it is now I like working in OS X even more since I did the upgrade to Windows 8 (among other things missing the drop shadows for the Windows, where did that go?).
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