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Old Mar 1, 2013, 07:37 AM   #1
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What do we do about Syria?

I thought this was a great article by the Economist about the situation and political reality in Syria.

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As the world looks on (or away), the country jammed between Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Israel is disintegrating. Perhaps the regime of Bashar Assad, Syria’s president, will collapse in chaos; for some time it could well fight on from a fortified enclave, the biggest militia in a land of militias. Either way, Syria looks increasingly likely to fall prey to feuding warlords, Islamists and gangs—a new Somalia rotting in the heart of the Levant.

Part of the reason for the West’s hesitancy is that, from the start of the uprising in 2011, Mr Assad has embraced a strategy of violence. By attacking the Arab spring with tanks and gunships, he turned peaceful demonstrators into armed militias. By shelling cities he uprooted his people. By getting his Alawite brethren to massacre the Sunni majority, he has drawn in jihadists and convinced Syrians from other sects to stick with him for fear that his own fall will lead to terrible vengeance.

So far the fighting has claimed 70,000 or more lives; tens of thousands are missing. The regime has locked up 150,000-200,000 people. More than 2m are homeless inside Syria, struggling to find food and shelter. Almost 1m more are living in squalor over the border.

hat was the lesson from the genocides and civil wars that scarred the last half of the past century. Yet President Barack Obama has suggested that saving lives alone is not a sufficient ground for military action. Having learnt in Afghanistan and Iraq how hard it is to impose peace, America is fearful of being sucked into the chaos that Mr Assad has created. Mr Obama was elected to win economic battles at home. He believes that a weary America should stay clear of yet another foreign disaster.
I think it's great that the United States is staying out. The U.S. shouldn't be mucking around in the affairs of these countries, and it's not our problem. It sucks that so much suffering and violence is happening, but at the same time US involvement just costs us money and American lives.

thoughts?
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 10:26 AM   #2
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The US needs to stay out of anything involving the Middle East.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 10:33 AM   #3
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Let the countries that border Syria deal with the issue if they so choose.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 10:44 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
I thought this was a great article by the Economist about the situation and political reality in Syria.



I think it's great that the United States is staying out. The U.S. shouldn't be mucking around in the affairs of these countries, and it's not our problem. It sucks that so much suffering and violence is happening, but at the same time US involvement just costs us money and American lives.

thoughts?

A while back ago when Israel went to war with Lebanon and with the Palestinians the US was quick to supply Israel with military equipment and cash. Back then I did not hear you recommend for the US to stay out or did I miss that post?
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 11:02 AM   #5
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A while back ago when Israel went to war with Lebanon.........Back then I did not hear you recommend for the US to stay out or did I miss that post?
well going by your join dates neither of you were members here at the time which probably explains why you didn't read erics comments about lebanon
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 11:11 AM   #6
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well going by your join dates neither of you were members here at the time which probably explains why you didn't read erics comments about lebanon

He's just wanting Eric to say he supports Jews but not Muslims.

That being said, I support Israel, but I am not anti-Muslim.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 11:17 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
A while back ago when Israel went to war with Lebanon and with the Palestinians the US was quick to supply Israel with military equipment and cash. Back then I did not hear you recommend for the US to stay out or did I miss that post?
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well going by your join dates neither of you were members here at the time which probably explains why you didn't read erics comments about lebanon
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He's just wanting Eric to say he supports Jews but not Muslims.

That being said, I support Israel, but I am not anti-Muslim.

To be fair there have been FIVE invasions in the recent past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...ion_of_Lebanon

Which shows in it's self how this problem area never seems to end.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 11:21 AM   #8
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To be fair there have been FIVE invasions in the recent past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...ion_of_Lebanon

Which shows in it's self how this problem area never seems to end.

Yes, I don't think it's going to end in our lifetime. This has been going on forever.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 11:29 AM   #9
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At this point I don't think we can do much, if we got involved then we'd just be putting our troops in the middle of a war we can't stop, if someone wants to send in a force to stabilize Syria it should be the Arab League. We should have put in a no fly zone earlier like we did in Libya, but I think it is too late for that to do much good now, plus I'd be slightly worried that Islamist groups are starting to hijack the revolution there so I wouldn't want to help put them in power.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 12:02 PM   #10
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Ignore them. Let them kill each other. Who gives a ****. It's not our problem, we have plenty of our own problems to deal with here, we don't need to police the sandbox 10,000 miles away. There's almost 200 countries on this planet, let someone else deal with it for once.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 01:02 PM   #11
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If we could do something that would ease the suffering of the people of Syria we should. However, it would be difficult to get anything the UN Security Council due to Russia's and PRC's selfish concerns. Also, we need to face the fact that the people who are hurting the Syrians most are themselves. I am not sure that aiding the rebels with arms would stop the killing. We can, however, provide humanitarians assistance, and monitor events more closely so that when the dust settles, those who are responsible for crimes against humanity get prosecuted. Also, we should expose those countries that have been supporting the Assad regime.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 03:51 AM   #12
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Ignore them. Let them kill each other. Who gives a ****. It's not our problem, we have plenty of our own problems to deal with here, we don't need to police the sandbox 10,000 miles away. There's almost 200 countries on this planet, let someone else deal with it for once.
God rewards those that help those in need of help. I also believe in Karma. If we help and support one side but not the other then we are no longer neutral and have our views will be considerd biased or hypocritical.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 05:44 AM   #13
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Syria is a difficult problem.

More instability and weapons in the region is not the way forward.

I believe one should try to strike a peace deal between the govt and rebels before proceeding.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 08:11 AM   #14
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Ive been wanting to post something similar to this for a long time...

To be honest I think the conflict, and the suffering along with it has gone on for far too long, I would personally like to see the U.S. get involved to some extent, maybe by leveling the playing field and neutralizing Assad's air superiority and using drones to take out his armor.

Also, someone is supplying Assad with weapons? Anyone know who this is? Is it the Russians or Iran??
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 11:08 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Happybunny View Post
To be fair there have been FIVE invasions in the recent past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...ion_of_Lebanon

Which shows in it's self how this problem area never seems to end.
well to be fair......macrumors wasn't even around for any but the last of those
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 12:11 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
God rewards those that help those in need of help. I also believe in Karma. If we help and support one side but not the other then we are no longer neutral and have our views will be considerd biased or hypocritical.
Sorry, but we can't use a book of 2000 year old fairy tales to dictate foreign policy of a nuclear superpower.

And yeah, if we got involved, obviously we would be supporting one side and not being neutral, and it would just cause more problems for us in the future.

I stand by my original statement. Stay away. We're not the world police, let them deal with their problems or let one of the other 200 countries in the world help them. We've bankrupted and neglected our own country enough over the past decade trying to police the middle east sandbox.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 02:12 PM   #17
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I'd rather anyone but Israel solve it.The UN isn't going to like their way and we'll deal with the fallout.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 02:13 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
Ive been wanting to post something similar to this for a long time...

To be honest I think the conflict, and the suffering along with it has gone on for far too long, I would personally like to see the U.S. get involved to some extent, maybe by leveling the playing field and neutralizing Assad's air superiority and using drones to take out his armor.

Also, someone is supplying Assad with weapons? Anyone know who this is? Is it the Russians or Iran??
Both Iran and Russia are. Iran has provided over 60,000 armed militia men to help Assad's forces. They militia men from Iran are quite brutal.

Russia has a ship docked in Syria which provides safe haven for Assad. Inside sources say he stays inside and comes out via helicopter just for media purposes.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 02:25 PM   #19
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Sorry, but we can't use a book of 2000 year old fairy tales to dictate foreign policy of a nuclear superpower.

And yeah, if we got involved, obviously we would be supporting one side and not being neutral, and it would just cause more problems for us in the future.

I stand by my original statement. Stay away. We're not the world police, let them deal with their problems or let one of the other 200 countries in the world help them. We've bankrupted and neglected our own country enough over the past decade trying to police the middle east sandbox.
Now if you had thought like that back 50 years ago.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 02:28 PM   #20
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Now if you had thought like that back 50 years ago.
Maybe if we didn't have the Cold War going on and the threat of communism spreading. Though like all things, times have changed, it's time for us to no longer police the world, and communism is no longer a legitimate threat.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 02:38 PM   #21
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Maybe if we didn't have the Cold War going on and the threat of communism spreading. Though like all things, times have changed, it's time for us to no longer police the world, and communism is no longer a legitimate threat.
And you as a nation would probably not be in 16 Trillion Dollars if debt.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 02:41 PM   #22
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And you as a nation would probably not be in 16 Trillion Dollars if debt.
It's ok, we saved the world. I'm glad my country did its part.

Now that we've saved the world, it's time for us to focus on here at home. Get out of NATO, get out of the UN security council, and get out of all or our alliances. Bring all US military personel back. And only use our navy and air force to protect American interests.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 02:46 PM   #23
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It's ok, we saved the world. I'm glad my country did its part.

Now that we've saved the world, it's time for us to focus on here at home. Get out of NATO, get out of the UN security council, and get out of all or our alliances. Bring all US military personel back. And only use our navy and air force to protect American interests.
Exactly look how long it took for help to arrive after Hurricane Sandy, never mind the cluster **** after Hurricane Katrina.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 02:51 PM   #24
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Yup. If we weren't busy trying to make sure terrorists don't bomb people, or that Egypt gets enough foreign aid, we could be doing better stuff here at home.

The federal government should not ever again hand out a single dollar in foreign aid, no matter what. If people from the US want to give, it should be done privately, not through the US government.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 03:36 PM   #25
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The federal government should not ever again hand out a single dollar in foreign aid, no matter what. If people from the US want to give, it should be done privately, not through the US government.
Foreign aid is in many cases the easiest way to achieving market penetration.
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