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Old Mar 6, 2013, 10:36 AM   #1
iOrbit
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Apple: Why compete?

i was reflecting on Apple today as a company, and how much it has changed.

the conclusion i came to today, was that Apple is looking like its on a downward spiral. straight back to where it was before Steve Jobs. this doesn't surprise me, because most the time in life, what becomes great, is not something that stays great forever; no, everything has it's time.

so why is Apple heading back to where it came from?

lets go back to when Apple was almost Bankrupt.

from what i know of the time, Apple was producing most computer related things they could with their brand on it. it got pretty desperate. they were competing with Microsoft. Apple was once at the top of the market with computers. they essentially spearheaded computers into the market as a consumer machine, for consumer use. that was their empire.

so you know what happens next, Microsoft and IBM came along, and won a new market, and Apple had Competition. with Apple and its empire, you can imagine some fear, with Microsoft and IBM on it's Radar, making big money, big success and capitalising on a market that shrinks apple's down.

so what does Apple do? they have to fight for their position as that computer company that sells. we can't take this threat sitting down. and they drop to Microsoft's Level, it becomes more about competition and money and sales, and less about innovation, product, and what makes them different.

you know what? this isn't an old story. its beginning to happen now.

today, were witnessing the same thing happen.

thanks to Steve jobs, coming back and reminding Apple what they should be focused on, and who they were as a company. apple got its wind back. and slowly but surely they got back to prosperity. Mac's ruled.

steve jobs always knew, that Apple wasn't about the numbers, money, or selling the most Mac's, or having the biggest market.

they were about making the BEST product to use, that you would want to use.
Microsoft/IBM based computers, etc had the biggest market. and they dominated that, cheaper, business like market.

but you know, Apple achieved its true goals: to get back, to make the best computers, and to have prosperity. and thats what matters.

its like running the best restaurant, or selling the highest quality branded clothes. you're not ever going to have the biggest market of consumers. but you will make, and sell the best. Apple is THAT company. they strive for the best. its a luxury brand of electronics really.

so why is apple, after making 2 steps forward since the 90's, now taking 3 steps backwards?

they are seemingly reacting the wrong way to companies like SAMSUNG, HTC, etc etc.

these companies, are the new IBM in new existing markets that APPLE either invented, or reinvented: the Phone, the portable Tablet computer and Portable Music.

Apple have got Macs and iPods down.

but Apple are doing themselves no good by considering cheaper quality iPhones, i.e. plastic.

you know what apple needs to do? ignore the competition's numbers. and not be intimidated by their presence.

Apple must learn that they can't monopolise a market to themselves. there will always be competition. and the best you can do, is focus on one market, and succeed. otherwise you just become a sony. you sell all shapes, prices.

apple, make the best tablets. and they make the best computers. probably the best portable music players too.

but now, the smart phone market.. they are paying too much attention to samsung.

they need to focus on Phones that are based on Apple's DNA, not how many they sell, or wether samsung owns a bigger share of the market. forget cheaper plastic iPhones. just focus on making the best iPhone.

the problem with apple, is they dont like sharing the markets they invent/reinvent, with competitors.

apple need to accept that when they invent a market with a great product, they will dominate the market. but at some point, competitors will join, and expand the market. they will sell cheaper versions. thats consumer choice. it will always be there. apple just needs to focus on making the best ones.

now the problem with apple, is not innovation, but focus.

it seems nowadays that iOS and Mac OS are becoming stale in quality. bugs plague Mac OS nowadays, because they tried to bring the iOS philosophy, too much to the mac. they did this because they tried to seduce their iOS market, into buying their Mac computers, to sell more macs. which is a great idea. but they don't seem to know where its compromising the Mac rather than helping.

nowadays apple's key to success is new hardware.newhardware.newhardware..new hardware.. every year. new sales records, new sales records, new sales records.

records don't really matter.

and new hardware, especially expanding into cheaper alternatives, is just slowly destroying what made Apple, Apple.

if Apple reinvents the television market, with 'Smart Televisions' im sure they will make the best TV. if not the best visual quality, atleast the best Smart-TV

and they will dominate a new market perhaps.

but if apple wants to stay at the top, they need to ignore it when samsung and others copy, and sell cheaper quality versions.

they don't want to start making cheaper tv's and start competing for market. because the focus goes to numbers, and penny counting.

bad Apple.
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Old Mar 6, 2013, 07:20 PM   #2
vrDrew
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Sorry, but you are seriously mis-reading the situation.

Apple almost went bankrupt in the 1990s for a very good reason: Its share of the PC market was so small that it failed to develop a strong-enough ecosystem to justify the higher prices its computers required.

Simply put, if you wanted to run XYZ business application, there was a 99.5% chance it would run on a Windows or DOS machine, and less than a 2% chance it would run on a Mac. With the result that Apple all but conceded the business market to Windows machines, and barely hung on to a sliver of the image-processing and page layout market.

The situation today is vastly different: In its flagship products: the iPhone; iPad and iPod products, it is Apple that owns the dominant ecosystem. (Even if Android systems are somewhat ahead in marketshare - smart developers know it is iOS devices where the money is to be made.)

Even in the desktop/laptop market, things are looking up for Apple: The ubiquity of web applications, and the very way people use computers, means that the operating system is itself much less important. If 95% of your computer use is e-mail, web-browsing, Facebook; etc. - the fact that there isn't an OSX version of XYZ software doesn't affect you at all. And so you can concentrate on the ease=of-use; elegance of design, etc. that allow Apple to charge a premium for its products.

Android might be competing with iOS for marketshare. But Google has failed mightily to challenge Apple for dominance in ecosystem. And until they do that (by showing developers that there is more money writing code for Android over iOS) then that is never going to change.
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Old Mar 6, 2013, 07:27 PM   #3
MisterKeeks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iOrbit View Post
but Apple are doing themselves no good by considering cheaper quality iPhones, i.e. plastic.
So Apple is in a downward spiral because of rumors of a cheaper iPhone.

Nice try.
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Old Mar 7, 2013, 02:35 PM   #4
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The lower-priced iphone is only for China Mobile arranged deals
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Old Mar 7, 2013, 03:35 PM   #5
phoenixsan
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Seems to me....

that Apple is employing this approach:

a)-Exploit an existent market with a product far better than the competition in that market

b)- Build a ecosistem for every foray outside the computer bussiness.

As another posters had said, Apple have for the moment the upper hand in ecosistem dominance. Nicely integrated hardware with software. No market segmentation. No various implementations of the same thing.

And for me, Apple is not about market share. Is more about to hold the ground gained. Must be a profit/revenue, for sure. Cheaper versions of hardware are aimed in developing markets, by example India or Mexico. Are you to forget almost 800 million people? No way! And if you can make a product up to your standards in quality/functioning, why not?

Stock price? Very volatile commodity. Having been present in the pre-return Jobs era, I can say that Apple are far, far away from that pityful years. Apple has diversified their portfolio, as a manner of speak. People what considers time ago unthinkable to "mess" with an Apple computer right now are buying iPhones, iPads and even MacBooks. And dont forget that something big in the Apple brand is the aesthetics/design, what are appealling and have a value (eye candy for most people, for sure, but still a value)

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Old Mar 7, 2013, 09:20 PM   #6
Hail Caesar
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More Apple doom and gloom. I doubt a company with 70% of the profits in the mobile arena has anything to worry about. Cheaper iPhone is for China, and remember Android is open source there is no money made on it.
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Old Mar 8, 2013, 01:21 AM   #7
smoledman
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Samsung is innovating and iterating much faster then Apple can cope with. What Apple has going for it is a 2-year lead on having a superphone:

iPhone 4 - July 2010
Samsung Galaxy SIII - May 2012

and the fact that Google Play is malware infested. If Google can ever get a handle on that, Apple just might be relegated to cut prices and profits with RIM & Microsoft coming on strong in mobile as well.
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Old Mar 8, 2013, 01:25 AM   #8
tech4all
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
Samsung is innovating and iterating much faster then Apple can cope with. What Apple has going for it is a 2-year lead on having a superphone:

iPhone 4 - July 2010
Samsung Galaxy SIII - May 2012

and the fact that Google Play is malware infested. If Google can ever get a handle on that, Apple just might be relegated to cut prices and profits with RIM & Microsoft coming on strong in mobile as well.
Source? I know plenty of people who use Android apps, and have never had any malware. You're making it sound like Windows or something (heck I'm on a PC right now and haven't any malware for the year since I've had it). I'm sure there are some, but I think "infested" is hardly the word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixsan View Post
that Apple is employing this approach:

a)-Exploit an existent market with a product far better than the competition in that market

b)- Build a ecosistem for every foray outside the computer bussiness.

As another posters had said, Apple have for the moment the upper hand in ecosistem dominance. Nicely integrated hardware with software. No market segmentation. No various implementations of the same thing.

And for me, Apple is not about market share. Is more about to hold the ground gained. Must be a profit/revenue, for sure. Cheaper versions of hardware are aimed in developing markets, by example India or Mexico. Are you to forget almost 800 million people? No way! And if you can make a product up to your standards in quality/functioning, why not?

Stock price? Very volatile commodity. Having been present in the pre-return Jobs era, I can say that Apple are far, far away from that pityful years. Apple has diversified their portfolio, as a manner of speak. People what considers time ago unthinkable to "mess" with an Apple computer right now are buying iPhones, iPads and even MacBooks. And dont forget that something big in the Apple brand is the aesthetics/design, what are appealling and have a value (eye candy for most people, for sure, but still a value)

Hehe, don't think so

iOS and the iPhone haven't seen any Earth-shattering changes in a while (Apple Maps was a disaster and even Tim Cook admitted to this). It's not better than the competition. Different yes. But definitely not better. I think people are seeing how stale iOS and the iPhone are getting now. Apple has to step it up this year or they're going to start loosing all but the most loyal customers.
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Old Mar 8, 2013, 01:35 AM   #9
smoledman
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Originally Posted by tech4all View Post
Source? I know plenty of people who use Android apps, and have never had any malware. You're making it sound like Windows or something (heck I'm on a PC right now and haven't any malware for the year since I've had it). I'm sure there are some, but I think "infested" is hardly the word.
https://twitter.com/pschiller/status...01667375415297
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Old Mar 8, 2013, 06:33 AM   #10
sim667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
Samsung is innovating and iterating much faster then Apple can cope with. What Apple has going for it is a 2-year lead on having a superphone:

iPhone 4 - July 2010
Samsung Galaxy SIII - May 2012

and the fact that Google Play is malware infested. If Google can ever get a handle on that, Apple just might be relegated to cut prices and profits with RIM & Microsoft coming on strong in mobile as well.
Samsung is shamelessly using high end corruption to further its company......
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Old Mar 8, 2013, 01:52 PM   #11
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How about we wait to see if Apple do actually make a cheaper smartphone before we say anything?
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Old Mar 8, 2013, 04:53 PM   #12
rdowns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
Samsung is innovating and iterating much faster then Apple can cope with. What Apple has going for it is a 2-year lead on having a superphone:

iPhone 4 - July 2010
Samsung Galaxy SIII - May 2012

and the fact that Google Play is malware infested. If Google can ever get a handle on that, Apple just might be relegated to cut prices and profits with RIM & Microsoft coming on strong in mobile as well.

LOL, seriously?
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Old Mar 8, 2013, 06:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
Samsung is innovating and iterating much faster then Apple can cope with. What Apple has going for it is a 2-year lead on having a superphone:

iPhone 4 - July 2010
Samsung Galaxy SIII - May 2012

and the fact that Google Play is malware infested. If Google can ever get a handle on that, Apple just might be relegated to cut prices and profits with RIM & Microsoft coming on strong in mobile as well.
Source?
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Old Mar 8, 2013, 07:12 PM   #14
thehustleman
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Apple is messing up in the smartphone market because others are simply making better phones than them
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Old Mar 9, 2013, 11:44 AM   #15
NewAnger
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Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
Just because Phil said it doesn't mean it's true or if it is true, as bad as he makes it.

The Google Play Store is just as safe as Apples app store. I don't go downloading apps without reading the reviews and descriptions to see what the app does and the permissions it has.
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Old Mar 9, 2013, 12:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
I'm sure Google has an antivirus company on hand that will say otherwise. A tweet made by a senior Apple employee is hardly unbias and proven information.

Otherwise my iPhone would be able to do magic tricks with it being so magical.
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Old Mar 9, 2013, 12:29 PM   #17
pdjudd
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Just because Phil said it doesn't mean it's true or if it is true, as bad as he makes it.
Well Phil is quoting somebody else who says something. If you want to attack the source do that but go after the right source. And that would be F secure. Do you have any proof that F Secure is incorrect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadbloc View Post
I'm sure Google has an antivirus company on hand that will say otherwise. A tweet made by a senior Apple employee is hardly unbias and proven information.
Again, Phil is just reporting something somebody else said. It isn't really an official PR statement or anything. Furthermore stating that Google probably has something similar is pretty useless unless you can provide it. You are trying to argue something without any evidence.

Now if Phil was making a statement without any source or if he was quoting an Apple PR article that would be one thing. He isn't doing that. He is just linking to another article that did a study on their own. Do you have a reputable source that can counter his?
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Old Mar 9, 2013, 04:45 PM   #18
gnasher729
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Source?
Didn't you read? Both RIM and Microsoft sold out. And unlike Apple, where not being able to keep up with demand is the sign of doom, when RIM and Microsoft sell out it is a sign that they will own the market soon.
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Old Mar 9, 2013, 05:01 PM   #19
maxosx
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Samsung is shamelessly using high end corruption to further its company......
And Google is evil?

Yeah...yeah.

Perhaps Apples not so angelic after all:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...y-lawsuit.html
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 06:48 AM   #20
sim667
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And Google is evil?

Yeah...yeah.

Perhaps Apples not so angelic after all:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...y-lawsuit.html
If you look over my posting history you'll see I've never been an advocate for apples business practices or their holier than though opinion of themselves.

Samsung is next level though, corruption and it makes weapons. I dont have time for any arms manufacturers.
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 06:58 AM   #21
gnasher729
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And Google is evil?

Yeah...yeah.

Perhaps Apples not so angelic after all:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...y-lawsuit.html
$120 billion cash attracts lawsuits.

This so-called "privacy" lawsuit was about iPhones storing locations of nearby cell towers on _your_ phone so that _your_ phone can know where it is without asking Apple again.

Users might as well sue Apple for allowing the users to store personal data (like their address books) on _their_ phones.

Samsung had about four convictions for price fixing in 2012 alone.

Google has been convicted to pay $22 million for hacking into Safari and Internet Explorer, plus $7 million for gathering information from people's WiFi on _Google's_ servers, and not removing the information when they were ordered to.

Apple is being sued. Being sued means nothing, except that some lawyer thinks Apple might be willing to give them cash for going away.

Here's an article about Samsung: Tax evasion, bribery and price fixing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...a-8510588.html
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 07:00 AM   #22
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I dont have time for any arms manufacturers.
Doesn't Apple also manufacture ARMs ?
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 07:22 AM   #23
sim667
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Doesn't Apple also manufacture ARMs ?
Always one
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 12:46 PM   #24
maxosx
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Samsung had about four convictions for price fixing in 2012 alone.
Here's an article about Samsung: Tax evasion, bribery and price fixing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...a-8510588.html
These legal actions Samsung is involved in are well known & no surprise. It's a cultural difference. That's not to advocate for Samsung, just a fact, as I strongly object to these practices.

Conversely Apple is widely held as a more responsible company. If we look at Apples history, until recent times when Samsung became a threat, Apple didn't launch lawsuits to help them sell products by stifling the competition.

Apple competed fairly in the market place, doing very well. Look at the success of the iPod, then the iPhone. Ultimate successes.

That said, short of having inside information, those of us on the outside rarely hear the truth. We get filtered "news" at best
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 02:59 PM   #25
thehustleman
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Originally Posted by maxosx View Post
These legal actions Samsung is involved in are well known & no surprise. It's a cultural difference. That's not to advocate for Samsung, just a fact, as I strongly object to these practices.

Conversely Apple is widely held as a more responsible company. If we look at Apples history, until recent times when Samsung became a threat, Apple didn't launch lawsuits to help them sell products by stifling the competition.

Apple competed fairly in the market place, doing very well. Look at the success of the iPod, then the iPhone. Ultimate successes.

That said, short of having inside information, those of us on the outside rarely hear the truth. We get filtered "news" at best
Truth
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