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Bonjour enabled routers

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themoffster

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 26, 2011
151
0
I have a problem that I believe is down to non bonjour enabled routers that I have.
I realise that I have a problem and I believe I know how to resolve it but wanted a second opinion before forking out cash.

Basically I have a sagem router from Sky (my ISP in the uk). This is my main router however this has wifi disabled as it is connected via Ethernet to a Tenda router which has wifi enabled (the tenda router has a better range).
I've got an airprint printer (HP envy 120) which appears when on my iphone I try to airprint. However this is for a short period after I manually wake the computer.
I believe what is happening is the printer is using bonjour to stay visible on the network - however as my routers don't support this it doesn't stay visible once the advertisement period (I think) on the router expires.
To resolve this I was intending on getting an airport express base station and replacing the Tenda router with that.

My concerns are twofold:
1. Will this resolve the problem with the printer disappearing?
2. If I have the bonjour enabled base station connected to the primary router, will this work? I'm not able to remove the Sagem router as the primary due to the ISP terms and conditions

Thanks
 
FreakinEurekan

FreakinEurekan

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,550
2,607
It shouldn't matter if your routers are Bonjour-aware or not, since you shouldn't be routing Bonjour (i.e. all Bonjour traffic is on your local subnet).

If it's possible to configure your Sagem as a bridge rather than a router (i.e. serve your public IP to the Tenda's WAN port) that would be ideal - however if you can't do that, you're still OK as long as the Tenda is the only thing plugged into the Sagem. You'll be double-NAT on your network which would complicate things like port forwarding if you need such things, but for general use is fine.

So assume that your Sagem can't bridge, and its LAN port is providing a subnet of 192.168.0.x. You disable Sagem's wireless and plug your Tenda into the Sagem's LAN port, so the Tenda's WAN address is maybe 192.168.0.2. You'll want to configure the Tenda to a different subnet, e.g. 192.168.1.x. Then all devices (your computer, your AirPrint printer, and your iPhone on wifi) should get IPs in the 192.168.1.x range. As long as it's configured in this manner, AirPrint should work.

Edit: This also assumes your HP Envy is connected to your network via Wifi, not to your computer via USB. If it's hooked only to your computer, that might be causing the problem: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3500
 
T

themoffster

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 26, 2011
151
0
Thanks very much for the detailed reply.
I have pretty much what you suggested with a slight deviation:

192.168.0.1 = sagem router which has wifi disabled. Dhcp enabled
192.168.0.2 = tenda router with wifi enabled but dhcp disabled. this is connected to the a LAN port on the sagem
I have a couple of other things connected to the sagem LAN ports:
A sky tv box (TiVo effectively if you are US based)
A smaller third party router for a closed circuit electricity monitor (http://www.greenenergyoptions.co.uk/support/scottish-power-support/unifi/)

The only difference I can see with what you have suggested is I am using 192.168.0.x rather than 192.168.1.x - what's the benefit in doing this rather than leaving it all on the 192.168.0.x range?

Everything I have I have set to static ips all sequentially on the 192.168.0.x range.

The printer is connecting wirelessly
 
Last edited:
FreakinEurekan

FreakinEurekan

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,550
2,607
That's the problem. Posting from iPhone so I won't go into particulars but change your innermost subnet to 192.168.1.x and should fix the issue.
 
FreakinEurekan

FreakinEurekan

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,550
2,607
themoffster said:
Thanks very much for the detailed reply.
I have pretty much what you suggested with a slight deviation:

192.168.0.1 = sagem router which has wifi disabled. Dhcp enabled
192.168.0.2 = tenda router with wifi enabled but dhcp disabled. this is connected to the a LAN port on the sagem
I have a couple of other things connected to the sagem LAN ports:
A sky tv box (TiVo effectively if you are US based)
A smaller third party router for a closed circuit electricity monitor (http://www.greenenergyoptions.co.uk/support/scottish-power-support/unifi/)

The only difference I can see with what you have suggested is I am using 192.168.0.x rather than 192.168.1.x - what's the benefit in doing this rather than leaving it all on the 192.168.0.x range?

Everything I have I have set to static ips all sequentially on the 192.168.0.x range.

The printer is connecting wirelessly
Click to expand...

Back on computer so time for a more detailed reply.

Your config is definitely going to cause problems with AirPrint and other local services. The problem is, that you're creating two segregated networks (segregated by the router function in your Tenda) that are using the same subnet (192.168.0).

You have two choices:

1. See if you can disable the router on the Tenda, i.e. turn it into a Wireless Access Point instead of a router. If so, everything else can remain as-is, and everything will use the 192.168.0 subnet that is "owned" by the Sagem, which will be the only "router" in the network.

2. Set it up like in my original reply, where the ONLY thing connected to the Sagem is the Tenda's WAN port - and the Tenda uses a separate subnet, with all devices on the network connecting to the Tenda (either wirelessly or via Ethernet) and not to the Sagem. You have two true routers - the Sagem hosting 192.168.0, and the Tenda hosting 192.168.1 subnets.

Either of those options will cure the problem, but #1 is preferable if your Tenda allows it (that solution eliminates double NAT and it also lets you use the extra LAN ports on your Sagem).
 
T

themoffster

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 26, 2011
151
0
FreakinEurekan said:
1. See if you can disable the router on the Tenda, i.e. turn it into a Wireless Access Point instead of a router. If so, everything else can remain as-is, and everything will use the 192.168.0 subnet that is "owned" by the Sagem, which will be the only "router" in the network
Click to expand...
What sort of setting would it be on the Tenda router config page? I can't see anything obvious
 
FreakinEurekan

FreakinEurekan

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,550
2,607
themoffster said:
What sort of setting would it be on the Tenda router config page? I can't see anything obvious
Click to expand...

It varies a lot. It's often called "Bridge mode" or "non routing mode" or "Join existing network" or something like that. You'd need to check the Tenda documentation, or see if there is some sort of online or telephone support for that router.
 
T

themoffster

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 26, 2011
151
0
FreakinEurekan said:
It varies a lot. It's often called "Bridge mode" or "non routing mode" or "Join existing network" or something like that. You'd need to check the Tenda documentation, or see if there is some sort of online or telephone support for that router.
Click to expand...

I've got a bridge mode option, but surely that only bridges a wifi signal? The original sagem router has wifi disabled to avoid conflicts.
 
FreakinEurekan

FreakinEurekan

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,550
2,607
themoffster said:
I've got a bridge mode option, but surely that only bridges a wifi signal? The original sagem router has wifi disabled to avoid conflicts.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Bridge mode refers to bridging subnets, i.e. joining an existing subnet rather than creating a new one behind a router. Bridging (as a generic term) can work from Ethernet to Ethernet, Ethernet to Wifi, Wifi to Ethernet, or Wifi to Wifi.

As to what Tenda means when THEY say "Bridge", I have no idea - but that's the first thing I'd try.
 
T

themoffster

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 26, 2011
151
0
Thanks very much for your help.
I had a lightbulb moment last night and though "why don't i just get rid of the tenda router?" I originally got it as the sagem wasn't very powerful, but i think that it was caused by a bad config on the router.

Since removing it altogether last night (unplugged sitting in a drawer) airplay has been 100%.
I'm thrilled - thanks so much for your help.
 
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