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Old Mar 10, 2013, 04:54 PM   #1
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Mozilla Will Not Release an iOS Version of Firefox Due to Apple's Limitations on Third-Party Browsers




CNET
reports that during a talk at SXSW, Jay Sullivan, Mozilla's vice president of product, said that the company has no plans to release an iOS version of Firefox because of technological limitations imposed by Apple.
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The nonprofit Mozilla, which pulled Mozilla Firefox Home from Apple's App Store in September 2012, is not currently building a version of its Firefox browser for iOS, nor does the company plan to, said Sullivan, speaking on a mobile browser wars panel at South by Southwest Interactive moderated by CNET Senior Reporter Seth Rosenblatt.

The sticking point for Mozilla is not being able to carry over its sophisticated rendering and javascript engines to iOS. Essentially, the organization doesn't feel like it can build the browser it wants to for Apple's platform, Sullivan told CNET.
Mozilla's stance on a Firefox browser for the iPhone is not new. In 2010, the company announced that it did not plan to create a standalone browser for the iPhone, citing the same technical and logistical restrictions that would prevent the company from creating an acceptable mobile experience via iOS.

Apple's Safari uses the speedy Nitro JavaScript engine exclusively, while restricting third-party browsers to UIWebView, which gives Safari a significant performance boost over other browsers.

Mozilla did create an iOS application called Firefox Home, which allowed Firefox users to sync Firefox history and bookmarks with a Webkit-powered web viewer.

The company also experimented with a stripped down version of Firefox called "Junior," which was designed to simplify the iOS browsing experience. That project has yet to see a public release, and Mozilla ended up removing Firefox Home from the App Store in September.

Other major players continue to compete with Safari, despite the imposed limitations. Opera has long had the Opera Mini browser in the App Store, and Google released a Chrome app for iOS last summer.

Article Link: Mozilla Will Not Release an iOS Version of Firefox Due to Apple's Limitations on Third-Party Browsers
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:05 PM   #2
bb426
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That didn't stop Google from releasing Chrome.

Innovation, people. Don't let a limitation stop you from working with all the resources you have.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:09 PM   #3
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Not too concerned that Mozilla won't release a browser known for memory leaks on iOS.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb426 View Post
That didn't stop Google from releasing Chrome.

Innovation, people. Don't let a limitation stop you from working with all the resources you have.
This.

Nintendo underpowers their consoles so that developers will find new and creative ways to utilize their hardware, and I'm sure Apple does the same, be it software or hardware limitations.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:12 PM   #5
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I agree with Mozilla. Open up the APIs and let the developers have at it. Benefits based on artificial constraints hurt everyone.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:13 PM   #6
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Honestly I only use Firefox Home just to open my firefox bookmarks, once I click on the bookmark, then I send the page to safari instead.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:14 PM   #7
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No other browser ENGINES are allowed, so what's the point of making just another cheap Safari wrapper? Everything else is just different UI on top of The lame old version of Safari. The problem is that Apple certainly wouldn't allow any of the Firefox plugin structure to work, and Apple has all sorts of conditions on sharing information with outside servers so many of the things we USE Firefox for wouldn't work or would be specifically banned anyway.

I have the Firefox Home App. That was a good idea to at least allow bookmarks and stuff to sync to your desktop Firefox. I didn't know they canceled it.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb426 View Post
That didn't stop Google from releasing Chrome.

Innovation, people. Don't let a limitation stop you from working with all the resources you have.
Firefox uses both a different Javascript and rendering engine than Safari and Chrome (which both use WebKit). It's not possible for Firefox to exist on the platform, with it's own Gecko rendering system, due to Apple's imposed restrictions. Don't compare Firefox and Chrome, it's two entirely different things.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:17 PM   #9
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Thumbs down

iOS users lose yet again. As always Apple frowns upon their users having a choice.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:19 PM   #10
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It's a computer, the should be no restrictions that the user themselves didn't place.

Stop being a turd and open up
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:20 PM   #11
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Mozilla's no dummy.

They know of the proprietary advantage Apple reserves for Safari, so as to make themselves look superior.

Why should Mozilla waste time with the cards stacked against them. Even more impressive is they spoke out and called Apple on it.

Google is a confident organization and doesn't resort to such games. Thus we Android users have a wonderful selection of competing apps like browsers & keyboards to choose from.

Viva le choice!

Thanks Google!
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:20 PM   #12
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Exclamation No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bb426 View Post
That didn't stop Google from releasing Chrome.

Innovation, people. Don't let a limitation stop you from working with all the resources you have.
No, they won't do it because they don't want to shoot themselves in the leg with their base. It's also probably why they removed Sync. I used Sync once, and only once. It was slow, buggy, not very helpful, and just really only useful for accessing bookmarks. However, you had to jump through hoops just to get it.

Chrome is useful, sure you can sync and have bookmarks and have unlimited tabs, etc. But it's still not made from a platform that can compete with the native browser, Safari.

Read this:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/th...chrome-for-ios
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:27 PM   #13
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I've never jail-broken any of my iOS devices (although the temptation to do so grows every time I read an article like this one). Is there any compelling-ly better browser available on Cydia (including some kind of semi-homebrew Firefox remix)?

IceWeasel for jail-broken iOS devices, anyone?
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by thehustleman View Post
It's a computer, the should be no restrictions that the user themselves didn't place.

Stop being a turd and open up
I'm sure the Official Apple Keep An Eye On MacRumors Guy is, as I type this, noting your eloquently stated complaint about Apple's closed ecosystem, and is in the process of conveying said eloquently stated complaint to Tim Cook. Cook, being overwhelmingly impressed with your well stated and well reasoned argument, and realizing that you are a very special customer, is reversing Apple's well established system and opening everything up...especially for you.

We all thank you for your important contribution to the welfare of all us Apple owners.

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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:30 PM   #15
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I started to use the google chrome browser for iOS simply because I enjoy having the option of tabs for all my windows while surfing. Seems like a small pointless addition but it is something that I enjoy and wish I had the option to allow in safari instead of having to zoom out and scroll through my pages back and forth repeatedly in the cover view style.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camnchar View Post
I agree with Mozilla. Open up the APIs and let the developers have at it. Benefits based on artificial constraints hurt everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelWheel View Post
I've never jail-broken any of my iOS devices (although the temptation to do so grows every time I read an article like this one). ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxosx View Post
They know of the proprietary advantage Apple reserves for Safari, so as to make themselves look superior.

Why should Mozilla waste time with the cards stacked against them. Even more impressive is they spoke out and called Apple on it.


That's not the story. It's not an artificial constraint.

Quote:
Apple's Safari uses the speedy Nitro JavaScript engine exclusively, while restricting third-party browsers to UIWebView, which gives Safari a significant performance boost over other browsers.
Nitro (or a similar just-in-time compiler) in third party apps would mean they could put data into RAM and make it executable--a HUGE malware vector and source of risk. Unsigned native code can now run. The only reason Apple allows this risk in Safari is because they can work to keep Safari free of security flaws that would allow exploits. Apple can't control that in other apps, so they're not opening the door to such problems.

That's the trade-off: speed vs. security. Apple has found a good compromise I think, but yes, JavaScript will run slower in third party apps--in other words, at the same perfectly acceptable speed Safari did before Nitro (only faster because today's hardware is faster).

This doesn't mean it's not worth making a third-party browser. And it doesn't mean Apple should open up Android-style security holes.

Last edited by nagromme; Mar 10, 2013 at 05:41 PM. Reason: detail
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by bb426 View Post
That didn't stop Google from releasing Chrome.

Innovation, people. Don't let a limitation stop you from working with all the resources you have.
They tried--that's what Firefox Home was. It was about all they could do. I don't see the point of making another (underpowered, also due to Apple) Safari wrapper, so their only other option is to pull an Opera and do server-side rendering, which also has its limitations.

As for Google, they had an even easier time. They didn't really port over Chrome, they just wrote a UI and tied as much as they could in with your Google account (e.g., sync info) like you'd get with the desktop version. But it uses the iOS Webkit rendering engine. Since Chrome itself already uses Webkit, we're dealing with minor differences here at the most (in addition to the JS engine)--but they did NOT port over the rendering engine. That is all Apple. This would be a much more drastic "compromise" for Mozilla to make. As I mentioned above, Opera worked around this, but it's not ideal, and I suspect Opera will stop doing this now that they themselves are switching to Webkit on the desktop side.

Last edited by RMo; Mar 10, 2013 at 06:31 PM.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:42 PM   #18
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Apple..its time for option to chose default browser.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drwatz0n View Post
Firefox uses both a different Javascript and rendering engine than Safari and Chrome (which both use WebKit). It's not possible for Firefox to exist on the platform, with it's own Gecko rendering system, due to Apple's imposed restrictions. Don't compare Firefox and Chrome, it's two entirely different things.
Not quite. Chrome uses its own JavaScript engine called V8. They had to give up that to make Chrome for iOS, so Firefox can do the same.

I use chrome on my iDevices. It's quite a great browser, and much better than Safari. I even jailbroke so I could make it my default browser. It didn't need its JavaScript engine to be a great browser, and Firefox doesn't need its engines either. Firefox Home was a bad browser. Plain and simple.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:44 PM   #20
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That didn't stop Google from releasing Chrome.

Innovation, people. Don't let a limitation stop you from working with all the resources you have.
The limitations are there so that no other browser can truly compete with Safari. I'm sure if this article was about the browser restrictions Microsoft imposed many years ago, your stance would be the complete opposite.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by bb426 View Post
That didn't stop Google from releasing Chrome.

Innovation, people. Don't let a limitation stop you from working with all the resources you have.
Google Chrome is a webkit-based browser.

Firefox is a Geck-based browser.

So you're saying they should take everything that makes Firefox what it is, and remove it. There would be no extensions, no Gecko, no special JavaScript engine.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:50 PM   #22
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I don't think some of you who downplayed my original post understand what I mean entirely.

First, I'm not comparing them to Google. Mozilla has their own engine, yes, and you can't release it (officially) for iOS. However, iOS also represents a very significant user base, and a great opportunity for Mozilla to release an alternative browser for iOS.

Most people are just in it for the speed of the browser, and yeah, it's very critical. But well-developed, intuitive features, UI and compatibility are just as important, and can easily outplay the limitations Apple imposes on devs (some for ridiculous reasons, others for security).

You can't release a perfect 1.0 product. Build upon it, get better. Span development out over time. Things change, and so will Apple. There are new updates to SDK's every year.... Take advantage of it.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by thehustleman View Post
It's a computer, the should be no restrictions that the user themselves didn't place.
Say 'Hi' to Bill Ayers at your next 'Power To The People' anarchists reunion.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 06:17 PM   #24
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If it ended up being anything like the Mac version, I don't think we're missing much.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 06:17 PM   #25
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Oh boo who, tbh I really don't care that much.

Firefox really isn't that great on the Mac anymore anyway.
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