New Bootcamp Drivers out!

[PowerPCMacMan]

Hello everyone,

With the release of Mac OS X 10.8.3 it brings with it new Bootcamp driver support for Windows 8. But this is going to be a sad day for those who have 2008 and lower Mac Pros.

The requirements are found here: Mac Pro 3,1 users weep

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5628

Now, is there a way to modify using Pacifist the installer check file to include MacPro3,1? If this can be done then the installer should allow it to be installed on 3,1 Mac Pros.

There is absolutely no reason why a 2008 can't run Windows 8, I am sorry, but Apple has gone too far this time.. First they say need a min of Early 2008 Mac Pro to run Windows 8, but as far as Bootcamp? You need a 4,1 or 5,1? I don't get it.

Mac Pro 3,1 users: Please let me know if you are able to install Windows 8 without any problems. I can't believe the 2008 is now on the cut list for machines not capable of running windows 8.

There has to be a way to mod the installer file to allow MacPro3,1 to install it.

[Tesselator]

OK but why limit the mod to 3,1. Let's mod it all the way for 1,1 machines.

I dunno what kind of checks BC5 uses but one can install Mountain Lion on MacPro1,1 through custom boot loaders which preload the 64bit kernel.

[PowerPCMacMan]

True, sorry about that. Didn't mean to keep our 1,1 and 2,1 brothers out in the cold.. I will pass a blanket to keep them warm I am hoping someone can find a way to get bootcamp5 installed on all Mac Pros. Really, Apple has gone too far this time!

Originally Posted by Tesselator

OK but why limit the mod to 3,1. Let's mod it all the way for 1,1 machines.

I dunno what kind of checks BC5 uses but one can install Mountain Lion on MacPro1,1 through custom boot loaders which preload the 64bit kernel.

[MacVidCards]

It will be doable, just some bother.

Many of them can be run as separate exe files.

I put W8 on a 1,1 recently. Not fun but now that I have created the install DVD, much easier.

I used previous bootcamp drivers, they worked but were also a pain to get right ones. But W7 package worked for 8 for most part.

[Tesselator]

Originally Posted by MacVidCards

It will be doable, just some bother.

Many of them can be run as separate exe files.

I put W8 on a 1,1 recently. Not fun but now that I have created the install DVD, much easier.

I used previous bootcamp drivers, they worked but were also a pain to get right ones. But W7 package worked for 8 for most part.

How about listing out the general procedure and revealing which version you had success with?

Originally Posted by PowerPCMacMan

I am hoping someone can find a way to get bootcamp5 installed on all Mac Pros. Really, Apple has gone too far this time!

Nah, this is pretty typical of Apple IMO. They release something that affects marketing positively for them when presented to the uninformed masses and then leaves enough loop-holes/work-arounds for those with the will and faculties to swim sideways to the riptide, to achieve success in spite of it all.

Typical...

[deconstruct60]

Originally Posted by PowerPCMacMan

There is absolutely no reason why a 2008 can't run Windows 8,

There is a very good reason. Nobody is paying for it. Apple doesn't have a subscription support for OS and/or hardware. At some point, the effort of backporting and doing configuration certifications doesn't pay. That happens even when people pay. It happens even faster if people aren't paying at all.

Second, folks who tend to cling to relatively old hardware also tend to cling to relatively old software. So the same folks clutching a 2008 Mac Pro tend to be the types who think Windows XP is cool and that Windows 7 is 'the future'. It can be used as a foil to complain with, but actions typically speak louder than words in this segment.

Third, Windows 8 is not oriented toward ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT 256MB class GPUs. Far more likely to run into creaky problems inside the intersection of circa 2007-8 hardware and Windows 8. Hacks and kludges trying to reach too far back was one of the contributing problems of Vista. Apple is either going to support, or not, the configurations they sold. The notion of "well replace these set of parts and it will still work smoothy" is not a target support configuration. If it happens to work, great. Is Apple going to chase bugs on that? No. That's why it isn't on the list.

Fourth, if the 2008 Mac Pro has been extensively upgraded to parity with 2010 like Mac Pro capabilities Windows 8 will run OK in a virtual machine. Few, folks will be chasing after maximum "bare metal" Windows performance with a 2008 Mac Pro's limited supported graphics, ram, and disk upgrades.

Fifth, Apple is not primarily in the business of supporting the maximum number of machines for Windows to run on. Bootcamp's primary purpose is to either scaffold folks making the transition or to stopgap for limited set of titles that won't be ported. There is no objective to promote maximal Microsoft market penetration.

I am sorry, but Apple has gone too far this time.. First they say need a min of Early 2008 Mac Pro to run Windows 8, but as far as Bootcamp? You need a 4,1 or 5,1? I don't get it.

The 2008 model has around a year before it is eligible for their Vintage and Obsolete list.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1752

That means it is going to stop being the target of new software efforts that have a support lifecycle time window that is largely after when the 2008 joins that list. The Mac Pro is not exempt from falling into this classification. It tend to fall into this non port category slower than the other Mac, but the notion that it will be more than a couple years slower when the nominal total lifecycle window runs 6 years is practicing self deception.

[Wardenski]

So I can't install Windows 8...nothing to weep about. Windows 7 works.

[Enrico]

I had Bootcamp 5 download Win drivers to a Usb flash, but when installing them under Win8 x64, the install blocks itself asking for a BootCamp64.msi which is in fact not in the Usb drive!

[Tesselator]

Originally Posted by Wardenski

So I can't install Windows 8...nothing to weep about. Windows 7 works.

You can... Don't listen to long-winded trolls.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...8&postcount=24
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...32&postcount=5
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...1&postcount=21
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...63&postcount=3
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...32&postcount=2
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...11&postcount=3

But if you like Win7 better that's fine too.

[ssls6]

Originally Posted by Wardenski

So I can't install Windows 8...nothing to weep about. Windows 7 works.

I have a PC workstation that I use for some specialized FEM software. 32gb, z77, i3770k, raid 0 SSDs, blah blah blah.

Twice I have put on win8 to tried and use it and twice I have restored it back to win7. Windows 8 sucks on a desktop and maybe everywhere. It's funny but the rollout of win8 has trailed even that of windows vista.

The sad part is win8 has some nice "under-the-hood" improvements but the interface adds mouse/keystrokes to real work and that's what you're left with after the "geewiz".

[Killerbob]

Are there any advantages to upgrading to BC5, if you are not trying to run Win8?

I have a MP5,1 and have it upgraded in most of the ways possible; Accelsior card, SSDs, and a GTX680, but no intentions of changing to Win8. I just want to run my bootcamp optimally (Win7 for games).

[PowerPCMacMan]

I think if you have the 5870 or 5770 it should work fine.

Originally Posted by Wardenski

So I can't install Windows 8...nothing to weep about. Windows 7 works.

[Sappharad]

It's already been stated in this thread a few times, but I'll just reiterate it here.

I have a 2008 Mac Pro, which was previously running 64-bit Windows 7 with Bootcamp. I upgraded it to 64-bit Windows 8 the day it came out, by following the normal upgrade process. (Putting in the DVD, running the upgrade installer right from Windows 7)

The upgrade went fine and sound, bluetooth, video, everything that I use works perfectly fine. It never even occurred to me that I should consider bootcamp drivers, because Windows 7 drivers almost always work for 8 and it could continue using the ones I already had.

I do have a Radeon HD 5770 in the machine, but that shouldn't make any difference because Windows 8 has drivers for the 2600 that originally shipped with it.

Bootcamp is intended for people who don't have technical experience with installing other OS's. If you're knowledgable enough to partition your drive yourself, I'm guessing you could probably just throw in the Windows install disc and hold down the C key during bootup to boot from that disc, and install directly bypassing bootcamp's partial automation of the process. But since I already had 7 installed I didn't need to do this. There's no technical reason why Windows 8 can't work, and it does work for me.

To further reinforce this point, when I first installed Windows 7 I never even bothered to install the Bootcamp drivers. I didn't install them until I wanted access to my HFS+ drives. After upgrading to Windows 8, the HFS+ drivers were still working just fine and I can access my OS X volumes from Windows.

Just wanted to provide more reassurance that this will work fine.

[MacVidCards]

WINDOWS 8 CAN BE INSTALLED ON ANY AND ALL MAC PROS !!!!

I got 8 Pro 64 bit on a 1,1 using this method.

http://www.fluxbox.co.uk/2009/08/26/...search=windows

Fiddly and tedious but now that it is done I have a DVD that will work on 1,1 or 2,1 whenever I need it.

The bootcamp drivers are nice for things like volume controls and getting all the drivers for various chipsets, etc.

The really important part is having the bootcamp utility in OSX partition the drive, otherwise it is not as easily found to switch to and from.

[deconstruct60]

Originally Posted by ssls6

Twice I have put on win8 to tried and use it and twice I have restored it back to win7. Windows 8 sucks on a desktop and maybe everywhere. It's funny but the rollout of win8 has trailed even that of windows vista.

It isn't funny. Two huge components of the answer are quite clear.

1. It is too expensive. In the era of $0.0 Linux downloads, free Andriod updates. free iOS updates. free Win8 beta editions , and $20 OS X upgrades, Microsoft's $99+ OS is way out of line with similar OS products that users also deal with. That's the generally available OEM price.

Granted growth was slow, but the backward slide since the start of February is probably deeply grounded in the price change that occurred on 1/31. I think expectations by a large body of users is that Win8 should cost no more than what Microsoft was selling it for at the launch.

In short, Microsoft has lost pricing power on Windows. Exact same issue is present on Windows RT. The price for the RT+Office bundle is higher than they have leverage for. Microsoft should seriously re-think offering up 10 year support plans where users have to pay for upfront. Spreading the payments out over time works much better ( *cough* subsidized/amortized Smartphones for one ).


2. Microsoft is trying to do too many things at the same time with Windows 8. Sure there was the super long open beta testing that would support having more things work in the released system, but "working" isn't really the issue.

Trying to push back on attack of killer ARM offerings with RT and tweaking the GUI and jumping on the "apply touchscreens to everything like ketchup" track just overwhelms folks. Even more "experts" who expertise is largely just knowing more than the folks they advise. If reduced to being newbies themselves of course going to get a backlash that labels it as something else.

In contrast, their user base of becoming more risk adverse over time. Still supporting XP 13 years after release. Extending support out to 2014, that is eventually going to turn out to be a bonehead move. I think the assumption was folks were going to jump to Win8. They should have guided folks onto more stable Win7 where the transition is so dramatically abrupt.

[thekev]

Originally Posted by deconstruct60

Second, folks who tend to cling to relatively old hardware also tend to cling to relatively old software. So the same folks clutching a 2008 Mac Pro tend to be the types who think Windows XP is cool and that Windows 7 is 'the future'. It can be used as a foil to complain with, but actions typically speak louder than words in this segment.

Windows 7 has so many users that it's likely to have adequate support from Microsoft and most developers for several more years. Much less backporting of software exists on the OSX side, but I really can't see the big deal with must run the latest Windows in bootcamp. A lot of Windows machines still ship with Windows 7 by default or at least retain the option. If it's an issue like the latest OpenGL, that would require a gpu upgrade anyway. This is in spite of the fact that they are still very nice machines for users whose workloads have been somewhat static since 2008 or where the 2008 machine was somewhat of overkill at the time.

[Killerbob]

Is there any reason to install the 4.0.4131 bootcamp drivers in an existing Windows 7 bootcamp (on my MP3,1)?

[deconstruct60]

Originally Posted by thekev

Windows 7 has so many users that it's likely to have adequate support from Microsoft and most developers for several more years.

Microsoft actually documents their software support lifecycles.

Win7 2015 (until have to transition to extended which ends inl 2020)

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?c2=14019

WinXP 2014 ( already on extended and extended again support )

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?c2=1173


During Extended Support Microsoft doesn't do any "new features" or "hotfixes" (unless pay more). At 5 years it kicks in even if no new Microsoft Windows version drops.

http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifepolicy

So there is often nothing "new" coming to 5 year old hardware run the OS it shipped with either. Whether the new version targets hardware that far back is optional.

Much less backporting of software exists on the OSX side, but I really can't see the big deal with must run the latest Windows in bootcamp.

Bootcamp was always been really composed of three aspects. It really isn't "run in" aspect to it unless grabbing at two different things.

1. BIOS compatibility layer or Apple's EFI.
2. Installer which prepares a Mac for Windows install. ( a GUI on top of some functionality that command line tools can do).
3. Drivers for Mac specific hardware which Windows doesn't come with.


BIOS. When Apple first transitioned to Intel/EFI this didn't ship installed. At this point though it is present by default. Bootcamp isn't needed to "install" this for you; its there.

Even if it wasn't already in 2008 Mac Pro an older version of Bootcamp could put it there.

Firmware is. Apple is extremely unlikely to roll out new firmware for relatively old (5 years old) devices since outside the windows of where they get new firmware.

Will Windows probably run on older BIOS? Yes. If the new version exposed latent bug will they fix it? No. The second is an indication of support not the first.




Installer. Similar to the BIOS installer can use old one to do partitioning and just walk through install yourself with Bootcamp help.

If the user can hand juggle around issues like placement problems with > 3TB storage disks then not much of an issue here.


Drivers. This is really the primary issue with long term support aspect. Running against custom Apple hardware. This can be stop-gapped by using alternative Windows oriented hardware. But that isn't support. "Can be stop-gapped around" isn't support.

It isn't that much different on Windows. More than likely any issue that did surface with older hardware would be punted.