Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Mar 19, 2013, 08:58 AM   #1
MacRumors
macrumors bot
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Apple Still Facing Criticism Over Warranty Issues in Europe as Lawsuits Spread to More Countries




Following multiple fines in Italy over what regulators have called inadequate disclosure of consumer warranty rights, Apple is facing continued scrutiny in the broader European Union, with Dow Jones Business News reporting that Apple is now facing lawsuits from consumer associations in Belgium, Germany, Luxembourg, and Portugal.

Apple was taken to task today in a speech by EU Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding, who had previously encouraged member countries to follow Italy's lead in examining Apple's practices.
Quote:
"This case and the responses I received since I sent my letter have highlighted rather clearly just why the Commission cannot sit on the side-lines on enforcement issues," she said. "The approaches to enforcement in these types of cases turn out to be very diversified and inconsistent at a national level. In at least 21 EU Member States Apple is not informing consumers correctly about the legal warranty rights they have. This is simply not good enough."
Concerns over Apple's actions relate to its promotion of AppleCare as an extended warranty program on top of the standard one-year warranty Apple offers on its products. EU consumer laws require two years of protection, and the company has been accused of not sharing that information with customers while trying to sell them AppleCare coverage.

Apple does, however, note on its website that there are a number of differences between the protection required by EU consumer laws and Apple's own standard and AppleCare warranty packages, differences that it no doubt believes still make AppleCare a worthwhile purchase for many customers.

Apple's continued difficulties in Europe come just as the company has quietly adjusted its practices in Australia to comply with consumer protection laws in that country requiring coverage for a "reasonable" time from the date of purchase.

Article Link: Apple Still Facing Criticism Over Warranty Issues in Europe as Lawsuits Spread to More Countries
MacRumors is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:02 AM   #2
iGrip
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Send a message via ICQ to iGrip Send a message via AIM to iGrip Send a message via MSN to iGrip Send a message via Yahoo to iGrip Send a message via Skype™ to iGrip
When is Apple going to learn that screwing over its customers is bad business?
iGrip is offline   28 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:04 AM   #3
Brian Y
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
I'm sorry, but they do comply with European law. However, is the EU expecting them to tell people about their rights when they purchase? Surely it's your own responsibility to know your own rights.

Do they inform you about food hygiene requirements when you go to a restaurant? Or alcohol licensing terms when you buy a pint? Do car dealers inform you about the highway code when you buy a car?

By the same logic, if you're fined for playing golf in a park, or not picking up dog crap - you can't use the excuse "there were no signs" - you're expected to know.
Brian Y is offline   6 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:04 AM   #4
Dr McKay
macrumors Demi-God
 
Dr McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kirkland
Send a message via MSN to Dr McKay Send a message via Skype™ to Dr McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Y View Post
I'm sorry, but they do comply with European law. However, is the EU expecting them to tell people about their rights when they purchase? Surely it's your own responsibility to know your own rights.

Do they inform you about food hygiene requirements when you go to a restaurant? Or alcohol licensing terms when you buy a pint? Do car dealers inform you about the highway code when you buy a car?
No. but they will be expected to stop misleading customers into purchasing something they don't need. Those comparisons don't really compare.
__________________
If only I could be so grossly incandescent.
Dr McKay is offline   30 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:07 AM   #5
Chuck-Norris
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
No. but they will be expected to stop misleading customers into purchasing something they don't need. Those comparisons don't really compare.
ur saying no one needs applecare?
Chuck-Norris is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:07 AM   #6
Brian Y
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
No. but they will be expected to stop misleading customers into purchasing something they don't need. Those comparisons don't really compare.
How exactly?

So they're supposed to say "if this breaks down, you have a 2 year warranty with the seller, but you need to prove there was an inherent fault if it breaks after 6 months" when you buy something.

Where have you EVER heard that said? It's the law, not a service. You should know the law in your own country.
Brian Y is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:11 AM   #7
furi0usbee
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
I love Apple, as most on here do, but I really think that for the price of my $2k+ MacBook Pro (retina), I ought to get at least 2 years coverage. Then, simply offer me a $99.00 option for a third year. I know I'd personally take that, and probably everyone would. So they could possibly keep their profits on the warranties if everyone paid out the $99.00 vs the $349 or whatever it is for two additional years. What I would prefer even more would be a $500/year trade-in plan. After you buy your first new machine, $500.00/year and you can trade in your model for the latest model. Now I'd love that!
__________________
YouTube - Apple iPhone Support Hotline (Actual Phone Call Recording)
MacBook Pro 15" (Retina) 2.3GHz i7 / 8GB RAM  iPad mini (AT&T) (16GB)
furi0usbee is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:11 AM   #8
Carniphage
macrumors 68000
 
Carniphage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sheffield, England
Apple Care is a pretty good deal. I walked home with a brand new 30" monitor, 3 years after I bought the first one.

But Apple do misrepresent it when selling products. Particularly in the stores. They often claim that without Apple care, a one-year warranty is all you can expect.

This is simply not true - and does not match EU law.

Apple have attempted to send-out a unified message about the benefits of Apple Care across all of its international stores. But the benefit is not unified.

The benefit in the US is much greater than in Europe, because of the 'States' weaker consumer protection.
Carniphage is offline   9 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:12 AM   #9
Dr McKay
macrumors Demi-God
 
Dr McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kirkland
Send a message via MSN to Dr McKay Send a message via Skype™ to Dr McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck-Norris View Post
ur saying no one needs applecare?
It's how aggressively they push Extended Apple care and tell people the warranty is 12 months.
__________________
If only I could be so grossly incandescent.
Dr McKay is offline   12 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:12 AM   #10
bazinga!!
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Belgium
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Y View Post
I'm sorry, but they do comply with European law. However, is the EU expecting them to tell people about their rights when they purchase? Surely it's your own responsibility to know your own rights.

Do they inform you about food hygiene requirements when you go to a restaurant? Or alcohol licensing terms when you buy a pint? Do car dealers inform you about the highway code when you buy a car?

By the same logic, if you're fined for playing golf in a park, or not picking up dog crap - you can't use the excuse "there were no signs" - you're expected to know.
What a bunch of BS! FACT is that Apple tried to let consumers believe that the legal warranty only counts for 1 year, and tried to persuade consumers to buy Apple Care during the period that you're still under legal warranty. That's called screwing people over.
__________________
13" MBP late 2011 thunderbolt display iPod nano 6th gen iPad mini Nexus 5
bazinga!! is offline   25 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:13 AM   #11
needfx
macrumors 68000
 
needfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: macrumors apparently
warranty is one of apple's major suck-y practices
needfx is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:17 AM   #12
angrynstupid
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Nothing to do with warranty

Countries see Apple's cash pile (mostly overseas) and they go "ching-ching".
angrynstupid is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:17 AM   #13
bbeagle
macrumors 65816
 
bbeagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
No. but they will be expected to stop misleading customers into purchasing something they don't need. Those comparisons don't really compare.
I completely disagree.



In reality, EU Consumers don't get a warranty at all. It's more like a lemon law. If they buy defective merchandise, but don't find out until a year later, they can get it fixed. For example, the first time a consumer uses the headphone jack, a year after they purchased the phone, it doesn't work.

The Apple warranty allows you to get a repair if the 200th time the headphone jack doesn't play sound. The defect wasn't present at the time the product was purchased, but came about later.

Lawyers just love to sue Apple because Apple has money, that's all there is to this.
bbeagle is offline   10 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:18 AM   #14
ugahairydawgs
macrumors 68020
 
ugahairydawgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
So the moral of the story is that the EU wants Apple to hand hold customers through warranty regulation when someone is trying to make a purchase?

How about this EU.....how about you tell your own citizens to be better versed on their own rights instead of trying to regulate industry to do it for you.
ugahairydawgs is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:19 AM   #15
jayducharme
macrumors 68010
 
jayducharme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The thick of it
Given what's happening in Greece, perhaps residents in Europe should take all their money and deposit it in the iTunes Store.
jayducharme is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:20 AM   #16
iGrip
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Send a message via ICQ to iGrip Send a message via AIM to iGrip Send a message via MSN to iGrip Send a message via Yahoo to iGrip Send a message via Skype™ to iGrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Y View Post
I'm sorry, but they do comply with European law. However, is the EU expecting them to tell people about their rights when they purchase? Surely it's your own responsibility to know your own rights.

Do they inform you about food hygiene requirements when you go to a restaurant? Or alcohol licensing terms when you buy a pint? Do car dealers inform you about the highway code when you buy a car?

By the same logic, if you're fined for playing golf in a park, or not picking up dog crap - you can't use the excuse "there were no signs" - you're expected to know.
More like the local mob telling a businessman that he can pay them $500 a week for protection by/from the neighborhood protection committee.

ISTM that like Apple, they never inform the victim of their rights either.
iGrip is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:26 AM   #17
Sayer
macrumors 6502a
 
Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbeagle View Post
I completely disagree.

...

The Apple warranty allows you to get a repair if the 200th time the headphone jack doesn't play sound. The defect wasn't present at the time the product was purchased, but came about later.

Lawyers just love to sue Apple because Apple has money, that's all there is to this.
Yup. And no one is forced to buy AppleCare anyway. Unless its a laptop or maybe an iPhone or iPod Touch I would skip it entirely.

Apple is not tricking anyone into getting AppleCare by having it selected by default on the Apple store website with some weird double-negative label checkbox that is checked by default but that really means no I don't want it.

If people in the EU need to be handheld to buy an extended warranty it certainly explains why they are having so many financial problems over there.
__________________
Obama is a true statesman whose experience as a state senator, half-term US Senator & guest lecturer in a Constitutional Law class has fully prepared him to take control of our nuclear arsenal.-Me
Sayer is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:28 AM   #18
needfx
macrumors 68000
 
needfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: macrumors apparently
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayducharme View Post
Given what's happening in Greece, perhaps residents in Europe should take all their money and deposit it in the iTunes Store.
LOLZ!!

Why didn't I think of that?!
needfx is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:30 AM   #19
oliversl
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
This seems to be a non-issue, but should Apple do? Make the customer sign a paper that says they have received the warranty information form the Genius? BTW, nasdaq has an ugly site
__________________
My email after a captcha in: http://tinymailto.com/oliversl
oliversl is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:31 AM   #20
Carniphage
macrumors 68000
 
Carniphage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sheffield, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayer View Post
Apple is not tricking anyone into getting AppleCare by having it selected by default on the Apple store website with some weird double-negative label checkbox that is checked by default but that really means no I don't want it.
Apple is tricking people if they lie about the benefit of a product.

Apple store staff claim that Apple Care offers two additional years of cover, when in truth it is only one.

It's like a crooked car dealer telling you one mileage when in fact its another.
Carniphage is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:36 AM   #21
silvetti
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Poland
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbeagle View Post
I completely disagree.

Image

In reality, EU Consumers don't get a warranty at all. It's more like a lemon law. If they buy defective merchandise, but don't find out until a year later, they can get it fixed. For example, the first time a consumer uses the headphone jack, a year after they purchased the phone, it doesn't work.

The Apple warranty allows you to get a repair if the 200th time the headphone jack doesn't play sound. The defect wasn't present at the time the product was purchased, but came about later.

Lawyers just love to sue Apple because Apple has money, that's all there is to this.
You are absolutely right. I am an EU citizen and have informed myself of the law.

First year is provided by manufacturer, second year by the STORE you bought it in. If you bought it thru Apple Online or physical store (not reseller!) you can contact Apple as well.

Also as you said second year warranty is only valid for defects that were already present and to be honest it depends on shop to shop if you will be able to have it replaced/fixed under warranty on the second year.

If you are buying an expensive laptop Applecare is VERY useful! If you are buying an iPhone, not so much.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post
Apple is tricking people if they lie about the benefit of a product.

Apple store staff claim that Apple Care offers two additional years of cover, when in truth it is only one.

It's like a crooked car dealer telling you one mileage when in fact its another.
What are you talking about ?

You do not have 2 year manufacturer warranty.

You have 1 year manufacturer and 1 extra year from the seller (store).

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayer View Post
Yup. And no one is forced to buy AppleCare anyway. Unless its a laptop or maybe an iPhone or iPod Touch I would skip it entirely.

Apple is not tricking anyone into getting AppleCare by having it selected by default on the Apple store website with some weird double-negative label checkbox that is checked by default but that really means no I don't want it.

If people in the EU need to be handheld to buy an extended warranty it certainly explains why they are having so many financial problems over there.
Dude, really ?

You must not read the news about the debt of your country LOL
silvetti is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:37 AM   #22
MarkHarrisonUK
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Y View Post
I'm sorry, but they do comply with European law.
No, they've been fined precisely because they DIDN'T comply with (Italian) law.

That's why they've just had to pay a series of fines in Italy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Y View Post
However, is the EU expecting them to tell people about their rights when they purchase? Surely it's your own responsibility to know your own rights.
Nope. That's not what European law says.

There are gaping differences in the rights and responsibilities of retailers, both in physical stores and 'distance selling' (which includes the Internet as well as call centres / catalogue sales etc), between Europe and the USA.

If you want the law to change, lobby for it... vote for a different set of politicians who are campaigning on a platform of reducing company obligations... in the UK this is actually part of the Conservative election platform, and they are the biggest party in the coalition government at the moment.

(Though, compared to US Democrats or Republicans, even the Conservatives are raging socialists)
MarkHarrisonUK is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:39 AM   #23
BillyBobBongo
macrumors 68000
 
BillyBobBongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: On The Interweb Thingy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbeagle View Post
I completely disagree.

Image

In reality, EU Consumers don't get a warranty at all. It's more like a lemon law. If they buy defective merchandise, but don't find out until a year later, they can get it fixed. For example, the first time a consumer uses the headphone jack, a year after they purchased the phone, it doesn't work.

The Apple warranty allows you to get a repair if the 200th time the headphone jack doesn't play sound. The defect wasn't present at the time the product was purchased, but came about later.

Lawyers just love to sue Apple because Apple has money, that's all there is to this.
This is simply wrong. If my headphone jack breaks after the year period is over I state in my complaint that the product is quite simply 'not fit for purpose'. A product should be able to be used as intended for a reasonable period of time. If Apple object I bring in the Office of Fair Trade (UK example). I can assure you I will get my product replaced or repaired under my two year warranty.

Please note I don't have to get some lawyer involved to get this done. My country offers me protection for such occurrences.
__________________
"You didn't have a bad experience with tequila, you had an experience with bad tequila!" : crushedagave
Mac Pro: 2.93GHz Quad-Core, iMac 21.5":2.7 GHz Core i5, MacBook Air: 1.8GHz i5
BillyBobBongo is offline   11 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:39 AM   #24
126351
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayer View Post
If people in the EU need to be handheld to buy an extended warranty it certainly explains why they are having so many financial problems over there.
Classy. We'll ignore the role your lot played in it with your greed and inability to understand basic economics.

But carry on with the jingoistic bullcrap...
126351 is offline   13 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2013, 09:43 AM   #25
silvetti
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Poland
Please go read:
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/co...ervices_en.htm

"The 2-year guarantee is an EU-wide minimum, and the laws in some EU countries may offer you longer limitation periods.

[!] In some countries, once the first 6 months of the two-year guarantee period have passed, you may need to prove that the product was faulty or not as advertised when you received it, if the seller contests this. In some countries, there are also deadlines for contacting the seller after discovering the defect."

This is the important part that shops use to get away with it. You need to prove that it was faulty when you BOUGHT it.
silvetti is offline   1 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can macbook warranty transfer between countries? zergslayer69 MacBook Pro 1 Jul 10, 2013 04:23 PM
NBC facing criticism for editing out 7/7 Victim tribute Dr McKay Current Events 3 Jul 31, 2012 10:29 AM
Apple Facing Potential Suspension of Italian Sales Amid Warranty Concerns MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 257 Jul 18, 2012 10:40 AM
Warranty Issues in Europe badman89 iPhone 16 Jul 10, 2012 02:29 PM
US Warranty in Europe marcoloveslaure iPod 2 Jun 16, 2012 06:08 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC