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Old Mar 26, 2013, 06:51 PM   #1
MuddyPaws1
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Serious question for our gay members

Serious. I don't know how this is viewed by the gay community. If you are not gay, I would ask that you reserve your posts until some of our gay members can respond. I really would like to hear their comments on this because it directly effects them, not so much gay supporters.

I was at lunch today and there were some young kids sitting there and talking about current events and one of the things was the topic of all the goings on with the supreme court right now.

On of the girls turned to me and said (and i'm trying to get the quote as close as it was asked to me)

"Mr. S...got a question for you. Can a person be like anti-gay....I mean think that it is morally wrong or whatever...I mean not like hate them or anything but not agree with their lifestyle.....but still be pro-gay rights like think they should get the same tax breaks and insurance coverage and all that like regular normal married people do?"

I thought it was a good question and actually pretty deep for a high school kid being that she was trying to balance her personal beliefs...I can't say religious because I have not known her to be overly religious....with what she thought was something more social. Not sure if I am wording that quite right. I can't find the right words to covey my thoughts there.

So...is it acceptable to be anti-gay but pro-gay at the same time?
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 07:48 PM   #2
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So...is it acceptable to be anti-gay but pro-gay at the same time?
Sorry. But I won't play by your rules.

I'm not blocking anybody's ability to reply. Apologies for not being gay.



But my answer to that question is that you are WELCOME to be as anti-gay as you like.

So long as you don't break the law.

Knock yourself out.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 07:57 PM   #3
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Sorry. But I won't play by your rules.

I'm not blocking anybody's ability to reply. Apologies for not being gay.



But my answer to that question is that you are WELCOME to be as anti-gay as you like.

So long as you don't break the law.

Knock yourself out.
Your comment is disregarded.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 08:10 PM   #4
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Your comment is disregarded.
Which makes absolutely no sense.

Are you disregarding my comment because I dared to violate your personal posting rule?

Why otherwise would you disregard my comment?
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 08:29 PM   #5
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I'm not sure I would label her as "pro-gay" because she believes everyone deserves to be treated equally. I've always said that I don't care if someone hates gays, or doesn't agree with my lifestyle as long as they aren't in favor of taking my rights away because of their beliefs. I'll never understand why some people think that their beliefs are so important that they should effect everyone else.

I don't approve of men who wear skinny jeans, but I would never advocate taking their rights away.

That said, I'll never understand how people could have so much vitriol and animosity toward a group of people who have absolutely no effect on their lives. The people protesting outside of the Supreme Court today? Why? Do they really have nothing better to do? I just don't get it.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 08:33 PM   #6
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Which makes absolutely no sense.

Are you disregarding my comment because I dared to violate your personal posting rule?

Why otherwise would you disregard my comment?
Don't worry, I read your posts. OP isn't the one who controls the thread

Though you say as long as one doesn't break the law, one can be as antigay morally as they like. If they are pro gay rights at the same time, doesn't that require changing existing law?
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 08:53 PM   #7
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Though you say as long as one doesn't break the law, one can be as antigay morally as they like. If they are pro gay rights at the same time, doesn't that require changing existing law?
Somehow I have to believe that there's room for someone to be against something personally, while understanding that their personal beliefs aren't sufficient to deny other people their personal beliefs.

(within the law)
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 08:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
I'm not sure I would label her as "pro-gay" because she believes everyone deserves to be treated equally. I've always said that I don't care if someone hates gays, or doesn't agree with my lifestyle as long as they aren't in favor of taking my rights away because of their beliefs. I'll never understand why some people think that their beliefs are so important that they should effect everyone else.

I don't approve of men who wear skinny jeans, but I would never advocate taking their rights away.

That said, I'll never understand how people could have so much vitriol and animosity toward a group of people who have absolutely no effect on their lives. The people protesting outside of the Supreme Court today? Why? Do they really have nothing better to do? I just don't get it.
Thank you for your honest comments. I guess the term I used would be in error. I guess I meant pro-gay-rights and not really pro-gay so to say.

About the people protesting....there are people demonstrating in support also so the same could be said about both sides on that matter. Both sides hope that by demonstrating they will sway the decision.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 09:00 PM   #9
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Is it acceptable to be pro African American but anti African American at the same time?

If you don't like African American, pick your own minority.

I don't see any profoundness about her question. All she's asking if its ok to hedge her bets instead of take a position.
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Last edited by Ugg; Mar 26, 2013 at 09:01 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 09:08 PM   #10
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Another question posed by another girl in the group.

Some background on her, she is from New York, a much different culture than what is here.

Anyway, she said, in her experience, there are many guys that share apartments with another guy. Both straight, to share cost and still live in a desirable location. She asked what would stop these two guys from "getting married" so they could get better tax breaks, coverage on insurance, lower insurance costs and other benefits or to become a citizen?

She expressed that the brother of one of her friends still in New York had already been talking about doing just that.

I told her that although I think that percentage would be VERY small, there would be nothing stopping them from doing that any more than there is anything stopping a man and woman from doing the same for the same reasons. Both happen, but I would imagine it's pretty infrequent.

----------

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Originally Posted by Ugg View Post
Is it acceptable to be pro African American but anti African American at the same time?

If you don't like African American, pick your own minority.

I don't see any profoundness about her question. All she's asking if its ok to hedge her bets instead of take a position.
I don't see that as the same thing. Hedge her bets? Hows that? Must she agree with a lifestyle in order to also want that group to have rights?
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 09:15 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
Anyway, she said, in her experience, there are many guys that share apartments with another guy. Both straight, to share cost and still live in a desirable location. She asked what would stop these two guys from "getting married" so they could get better tax breaks, coverage on insurance, lower insurance costs and other benefits or to become a citizen?
What stops heterosexuals from trying to get away with the same thing?
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 09:16 PM   #12
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Exactly how old are these "young kids" ?
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 09:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
Another question posed by another girl in the group.

Some background on her, she is from New York, a much different culture than what is here.

Anyway, she said, in her experience, there are many guys that share apartments with another guy. Both straight, to share cost and still live in a desirable location. She asked what would stop these two guys from "getting married" so they could get better tax breaks, coverage on insurance, lower insurance costs and other benefits or to become a citizen?

She expressed that the brother of one of her friends still in New York had already been talking about doing just that.

I told her that although I think that percentage would be VERY small, there would be nothing stopping them from doing that any more than there is anything stopping a man and woman from doing the same for the same reasons. Both happen, but I would imagine it's pretty infrequent.

----------



I don't see that as the same thing. Hedge her bets? Hows that? Must she agree with a lifestyle in order to also want that group to have rights?
I've heard of elderly couples not marrying in order to preserve benefits so I don't think it's a big deal.


Hedging her bets means she's unwilling to take a stand. By so graciously granting them the same rights, she follows the teachings of Jesus but by remaining morally affronted, she embraces the Old Testament.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 09:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
About the people protesting....there are people demonstrating in support also so the same could be said about both sides on that matter. Both sides hope that by demonstrating they will sway the decision.
There's a pretty big difference in my opinion in demonstrating for more rights, and demonstrating against rights or trying to keep others from having the same rights.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
Another question posed by another girl in the group.

Some background on her, she is from New York, a much different culture than what is here.

Anyway, she said, in her experience, there are many guys that share apartments with another guy. Both straight, to share cost and still live in a desirable location. She asked what would stop these two guys from "getting married" so they could get better tax breaks, coverage on insurance, lower insurance costs and other benefits or to become a citizen?

She expressed that the brother of one of her friends still in New York had already been talking about doing just that.

I told her that although I think that percentage would be VERY small, there would be nothing stopping them from doing that any more than there is anything stopping a man and woman from doing the same for the same reasons. Both happen, but I would imagine it's pretty infrequent.
I think this is possible, and have thought about it myself. But, I do think it would be a pretty small percentage of people. And when they were done being married, having to go through "divorce"...probably not worth it for most people.

Quote:
Must she agree with a lifestyle in order to also want that group to have rights?
I don't think so. You don't necessarily have to like or agree with something in order to think it's okay for it to exist. I despise dubstep. It sounds like malfunctioning power tools to me. But I don't think that other people shouldn't listen to it if they want to (okay, maybe a little bit ). I certainly wouldn't go trying to get dubstep made illegal just because I don't like it.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 09:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
Another question posed by another girl in the group.

Some background on her, she is from New York, a much different culture than what is here.

Anyway, she said, in her experience, there are many guys that share apartments with another guy. Both straight, to share cost and still live in a desirable location. She asked what would stop these two guys from "getting married" so they could get better tax breaks, coverage on insurance, lower insurance costs and other benefits or to become a citizen?

She expressed that the brother of one of her friends still in New York had already been talking about doing just that.

I told her that although I think that percentage would be VERY small, there would be nothing stopping them from doing that any more than there is anything stopping a man and woman from doing the same for the same reasons. Both happen, but I would imagine it's pretty infrequent.
I had roommates when I was younger. NYC is somewhat of an extreme case in that a tiny one bedroom is easily north of $2000/month, obviously depending on the area. People do hold onto leases for quite a long time there, but that still seems like a strange concept. You would have to divorce a roommate if one of you moves.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 10:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
...Must she agree with a lifestyle in order to also want that group to have rights?
Also not gay. My apologies. But this is a fairly interesting discussion. And I can weigh in with a personal anecdote.

Personally, I have problems with the transgendered and transsexual communities. I'm very uncomfortable being around them. I absolutely do not understand that lifestyle, and frankly, I have little desire to. I recognize it's a bias of mine.

That being said, I would never ever willingly do anything to take away or impede any of their rights. They should have the exact same rights and benefits as everyone else. And I would even go so far as to donate time or money to help their cause.

So yeah - I think someone can disapprove of homosexuality, but also understand the bigger picture of equal rights. I also think over time, these biases will diminish.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 11:41 PM   #17
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I don't see someone who is anti-gay voting to extend the same rights and benefits heterosexual enjoy to gay people. You are either anti-gay, or you're not. This whole, "I don't agree with your lifestyle, but I love you because jesus said I have to" thing doesn't work.

And yes, I'm gay.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 07:03 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
Serious. I don't know how this is viewed by the black community. If you are not black, I would ask that you reserve your posts until some of our black members can respond. I really would like to hear their comments on this because it directly effects them, not so much whitesupporters.

I was at lunch today and there were some young kids sitting there and talking about current events and one of the things was the topic of all the goings on with the supreme court right now.

On of the girls turned to me and said (and i'm trying to get the quote as close as it was asked to me)

"Mr. S...got a question for you. Can a person be like anti-black....I mean think that it is morally wrong or whatever...I mean not like hate them or anything but not agree with their lifestyle.....but still be pro-black rights like think they should get the same tax breaks and insurance coverage and all that like regular normal married people do?"

I thought it was a good question and actually pretty deep for a high school kid being that she was trying to balance her personal beliefs...I can't say religious because I have not known her to be overly religious....with what she thought was something more social. Not sure if I am wording that quite right. I can't find the right words to covey my thoughts there.

So...is it acceptable to be anti-black but pro-black at the same time?
I made a few changes to your post and we are in 1967, not 2013 and the SC is hearing Loving v Virginia. Would like to hear your response.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 07:19 AM   #19
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I really don't see the problem here ......

- I surely don't like the stereotypical "gays" (mind you some actually turn out to be straight).

- I don't want to see 2 men kissing in public

- The whole idea of gay sex is just disgusting


Those are MY problems, not theirs !!

And aslong as they stay out of my personal lifes I'm for sure gonna stay out of theirs.

I have no problem with 2 men (or 2 women) deciding to commit themselfes to eachother aslong as the accept that equal rights bring equal responsibilities.

I also have no problem with them adopting children.

Wether such a partnership qualifies as "marrige" or wether that word should be exclusive for a men+women couple ..*shrug*
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 10:04 AM   #20
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I made a few changes to your post and we are in 1967, not 2013 and the SC is hearing Loving v Virginia. Would like to hear your response.
Well put. and I would love to hear the OP's response as well.

BL.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 10:19 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
I'm not sure I would label her as "pro-gay" because she believes everyone deserves to be treated equally. I've always said that I don't care if someone hates gays, or doesn't agree with my lifestyle as long as they aren't in favor of taking my rights away because of their beliefs. I'll never understand why some people think that their beliefs are so important that they should effect everyone else.

I don't approve of men who wear skinny jeans, but I would never advocate taking their rights away.

That said, I'll never understand how people could have so much vitriol and animosity toward a group of people who have absolutely no effect on their lives. The people protesting outside of the Supreme Court today? Why? Do they really have nothing better to do? I just don't get it.
Ha, something we agree on...
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 10:25 AM   #22
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The people protesting outside of the Supreme Court today? Why? Do they really have nothing better to do? I just don't get it.
Obviously, it is something they feel strongly about. Just like the Occupy movement, G8 protesters, etc.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 10:27 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
Another question posed by another girl in the group.

Some background on her, she is from New York, a much different culture than what is here.

Anyway, she said, in her experience, there are many guys that share apartments with another guy. Both straight, to share cost and still live in a desirable location. She asked what would stop these two guys from "getting married" so they could get better tax breaks, coverage on insurance, lower insurance costs and other benefits or to become a citizen?

She expressed that the brother of one of her friends still in New York had already been talking about doing just that.

I told her that although I think that percentage would be VERY small, there would be nothing stopping them from doing that any more than there is anything stopping a man and woman from doing the same for the same reasons. Both happen, but I would imagine it's pretty infrequent.

----------



I don't see that as the same thing. Hedge her bets? Hows that? Must she agree with a lifestyle in order to also want that group to have rights?
Tell her to watch this....

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Old Mar 27, 2013, 10:28 AM   #24
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Obviously, it is something they feel strongly about. Just like the Occupy movement, G8 protesters, etc.
Well, obviously. But, why? It has absolutely no effect on their lives whatsoever. You can argue that the Occupy people are protesting their "quality of life"....

I feel strongly about rooting against the Red Sox, but I'm not going to stand outside Fenway and protest.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 10:38 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
Well, obviously. But, why? It has absolutely no effect on their lives whatsoever. You can argue that the Occupy people are protesting their "quality of life"....

I feel strongly about rooting against the Red Sox, but I'm not going to stand outside Fenway and protest.
Wow - a second thing we agree on....on a roll
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