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Old Apr 15, 2013, 11:41 AM   #1
dukebound85
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Gun Laws (complete mess)

I have been reading up on gun laws at the federal, state, and local level near my residence. In short, it is ASTONISHING how far apart they are.

What is legal in one state is a felony offense and mandatory jail time in another. This even pertains to interstate traveling with a firearm in the vehicle (moving, etc).

Additionally, some states (like mine), you don't have to have a permit to buy or own a handgun, yet in places like NY or the NE area in general, better off just leaving your handgun/rifle back home with family.

I know I may be speaking to the choir to some, but I know I never really looked in depth on how restrictive many laws already are. Heck, a Connecticut senator wants to make it a felony to own a gun that is made to fire more than one round

The more I research this, the more I want looser Federal preemption over state laws and for state laws to be even more lenient. I am glad my state allows for relatively unrestricted open carry without any permit required, as well as the legal ability to keep a loaded gun in my car, both of which I think I will plan on doing in the near future.

For reference, one of many sites that have consumed the better part of my weekend has been sites like this:
http://www.handgunlaw.us
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 11:45 AM   #2
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It would make more sense to have federal laws that apply everywhere instead of a mess of 50 different state laws, and even more local ones. What you're suggesting would just make things even more of a mess.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 11:51 AM   #3
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Let's just go back to the wild west days eh ?

Yet another gun thread. There's almost as many gun threads as there are guns.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 11:51 AM   #4
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It would make more sense to have federal laws that apply everywhere instead of a mess of 50 different state laws, and even more local ones. What you're suggesting would just make things even more of a mess.
I disagree

Federal Laws should trump state laws when it comes to (especially) interstate travel

At the moment, you need to know the gun laws of every state you are going through or you can be in a load of trouble for what was legal in other states but not one particular one.

Things like this SHOULD never happen
http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/092029p.pdf
or here is a synopsis
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...supreme-court/

I know it's Fox, but it provides a summary of the court case I posted above
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 12:17 PM   #5
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I
The more I research this, the more I want looser Federal preemption over state laws
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Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
I disagree

Federal Laws should trump state laws when it comes to (especially) interstate travel
You're contradicting yourself in the OP you say you don't want federal laws to preempt state laws, and then you say that federal laws to preempt state laws.

And in the case you just cited it was a state law that the person was charged under, so I'm not sure what you are trying to argue...
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 12:23 PM   #6
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You're contradicting yourself in the OP you say you don't want federal laws to preempt state laws, and then you say that federal laws to preempt state laws.

And in the case you just cited it was a state law that the person was charged under, so I'm not sure what you are trying to argue...
No, I said I want Federal laws to preempt (supersede) state law, especially in firearm transport across states. Not sure how you read it in my OP but that was what I meant.

If federal laws were in place to allow for interstate travel, then the state law used to arrest the Utah man in NJ would not have happened
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 01:04 PM   #7
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Let's just go back to the wild west days eh ?

Yet another gun thread. There's almost as many gun threads as there are guns.
Because less restrictive gun laws mean traveling caravans being destroyed by pillaging Native Americans?
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 01:09 PM   #8
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I posted a thread a while back on why we need national gun laws. This mish mash of 50 different state laws are crazy plus you have dozens of municipal laws as well.

Interesting and relevant post at SCOTUS blog earlier.



Quote:
Court avoids gun rights dispute

The Supreme Court, following a pattern that is now quite well established, chose again on Monday to remain on the sidelines as the national debate over gun ownership heats up in the political realm. Without comment, the Justices denied review of the latest attempt to test whether the Second Amendment right to have a gun extends beyond the home.

The denial of review in Kachalsky, et al., v. Cacace, et al. (docket 12-845) was the latest in a series of denials of attempts to get the Justices to explore the reach of the Court’s 2008 decision in District of Columbia v. Heller, recognizing a Second Amendment right to have a gun for personal self-defense. That decision, though, was limited to a right to have a gun ready to shoot inside one’s own home.


In the Heller decision, the Court emphasized that the personal right it was recognizing for the first time was not an “absolute” right, and that gun ownership could be subjected to “reasonable” regulations. It provided some examples, such as having a gun in a sensitive public place, but that list was not intended to be complete. That has left it to Congress and to state legislatures to decide whether they want to impose new forms of gun control.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 02:09 PM   #9
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Can someone just make another gun forum now and be done with it?

As to the fundamental revelation though, LOTS of laws on all sorts of topics vary from state to state. Some things even vary city-to-city and county-to-county. This makes for all sorts of fun legal debates where jurisdiction is not established. One example is that different states have different minimum ages to marry ... so a wedding that is legal one place would be a no-no just down the road.

Here in DC things are so fragmented that you can go through several jurisdictions in a small area. The city has the sidewalk. The park police have the actual park. Then there might be places inside the park that are controlled by yet someone else. All of them with their own individual laws. I have also seen police here going through several different lawbooks and explaining they can use whichever book is most useful to them at the time ... seriously. The city transportation system is a joint VA/DC/MD venture with (you guessed it) its own jurisdiction and places where you can exit the same station and be in either DC or MD (all with their own laws of course).

----------

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Because less restrictive gun laws mean traveling caravans being destroyed by pillaging Native Americans?
Well, if those caravans had not invaded the areas under broken promises in the first place ...
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 02:45 PM   #10
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Let's just go back to the wild west days eh ?

Yet another gun thread. There's almost as many gun threads as there are guns.
MacRumors needs an official 'gun thread'.

If so I'd add this:
Murders, Shooting, and Gun Sales- An Average Day in the U.S.

Quote:
Breaking it down further, three people are killed by a gun per hour and almost seven people are shot every 60 minutes.
That's approaching 30000 people killed each year by guns, and 60k shot.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 02:54 PM   #11
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Because less restrictive gun laws mean traveling caravans being destroyed by pillaging Native Americans?
Pillaging??? Yeah, how dare they do that to invading people from another continent who considered them sub-human and proceeded to wipe out 95% of the population in the next 100 years.

Not to thread jack, but UGH, the entitlement is strong with this one.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 02:54 PM   #12
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Pillaging??? Yeah, how dare they do that to invading people from another continent who considered them sub-human and proceeded to wipe out 95% of the population in the next 100 years.

Not to thread jack, but UGH, the entitlement is strong with this one.
In what way it that entitlement?
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 03:06 PM   #13
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In what way it that entitlement?
Just ASSUMING that people somehow have rights to the land that other people were already using maybe? Then taking the second group to task when they complained. Why is it non-native pro-gun peeps never say native americans were just excersing their second amenment rights when all they were doing was defending their property from invaders?
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 04:03 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by KaraH View Post
Just ASSUMING that people somehow have rights to the land that other people were already using maybe? Then taking the second group to task when they complained. Why is it non-native pro-gun peeps never say native americans were just excersing their second amenment rights when all they were doing was defending their property from invaders?
Well said. And with that, here's an old post of mine. I think it says it all:

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Originally Posted by bradl View Post

Thumb resize.

BL.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 04:39 PM   #15
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Awesome. So a comment about turning American into the Wild West again (not by me) has ended in me having an entitlement mentality.

Just awesome.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 06:39 AM   #16
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Just ASSUMING that people somehow have rights to the land that other people were already using maybe? Then taking the second group to task when they complained. Why is it non-native pro-gun peeps never say native americans were just excersing their second amenment rights when all they were doing was defending their property from invaders?
If your argument is you need a firearm to defend your property, then why not use one of the hundreds of non-lethal weapons available? I know, for instance, in the US you can buy tasers. You could easily incapacitate and then disorientate an intruder for more than long enough for the police to arrive and arrest them.

Not only does this avoid unnecessary (IMO) death, but it also prevents you from being liable (perhaps the family of the intruder could file a lawsuit against you for what they claim to be trigger-happy).
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 07:00 AM   #17
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Because less restrictive gun laws mean traveling caravans being destroyed by pillaging Native Americans?
I don't think that's what Peace meant. I think he was referring to a lawless free-for-all where the white men were shooting each other and it was impossible to know who was 'right' and who was 'wrong'. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 07:15 AM   #18
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I don't think that's what Peace meant. I think he was referring to a lawless free-for-all where the white men were shooting each other and it was impossible to know who was 'right' and who was 'wrong'. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
Oh. Then I don't really see how that's applicable here.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 08:51 AM   #19
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It sounds like you're arguing that the laws you agree with in your state should be, through the power of the federal government, made to apply in other states whose laws you disagree with.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 03:52 PM   #20
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It sounds like you're arguing that the laws you agree with in your state should be, through the power of the federal government, made to apply in other states whose laws you disagree with.
^^This^^

It's part of states rights in the Constitution. And eric my friend. You should study up on who started scalping. Native Americans were merely trying to protect their land. We came here and took all their land. They were already here.

What would you do if somebody came to your property and decided it was theirs ?
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 04:22 PM   #21
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What would you do if somebody came to your property and decided it was theirs ?
Oh the irony
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 04:25 PM   #22
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^^This^^

It's part of states rights in the Constitution. And eric my friend. You should study up on who started scalping. Native Americans were merely trying to protect their land. We came here and took all their land. They were already here.

What would you do if somebody came to your property and decided it was theirs ?
Where did I say anything contrary to that?
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 04:29 PM   #23
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It sounds like you're arguing that the laws you agree with in your state should be, through the power of the federal government, made to apply in other states whose laws you disagree with.
More or less (I admit) in regards to interstate travel. I am not keen on how something completely legal in one state is an automatic felony and jail time in another.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 04:37 PM   #24
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Oh the irony
I have nothing against a person protecting their property. I never said I did.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 07:05 PM   #25
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I have nothing against a person protecting their property. I never said I did.
That's not what's ironic, at least not to me.
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