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Old Apr 15, 2013, 11:07 AM   #1
jnpy!$4g3cwk
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Do you believe in Gold? Gold hits two year low as people move assets into Bitcoin.

Gold just hit a two-year low:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/15/inve...-prices-china/

In the meantime, Bitcoin is still off the charts, although it has just taken a breather:



http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...rrency/274859/


It is a crazy world out there
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 12:37 PM   #2
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Wonder if people will begin profit taking on their bitcoin stashes soon and how that will effect the market. It is really high up and if you bought in a few months ago your gains would be amazing. I would personally be profit taking at this point if I was speculating it.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 12:59 PM   #3
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Ah, yes.

At first glance, I thought that this thread title read something along the lines of: "Do You Believe In God?"

(I wear spectacles, and speed read, not always an ideal combination for immediate accuracy). However, further investigation revealed that the discussion, instead, dealt with the equally absorbing, but rather different, topic of 'Gold'.

I rather suspect that matters such as the Cypriot administration finding themselves compelled to raise revenue and thus, encouraged to dispose of much of their gold reserves has contributed to this fall in price. It may well be possible that some of the other struggling economies of southern Europe may find themselves obliged to follow a similar course of action, which could well lead to a further fall in the price of gold.

In other words, as is often the case, the explanations for matters such as the price of gold, are often to be found in the strange place where politics, economic policy and financial need all intersect, and occasionally collide.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 01:08 PM   #4
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Gold down 9%. Yikes. I'll bet this guy with his brand-new $250,000 gold shirt is pissed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21994873

Says it was an investment.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 01:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Arran View Post
Gold down 9%. Yikes. I'll bet this guy with his brand-new $250,000 gold shirt is pissed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21994873

Says it was an investment.

I pity the fool.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 01:49 PM   #6
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Ah yes, moving assets to bitcoin, whose value dropped like 50% in the last week.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 05:31 PM   #7
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I pity the fool.
Indeed. Lost his shirt.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 10:00 PM   #8
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Where is itcheroni? He was convinced that gold would be over $5,000 by now. Admittedly, I thought it would be under $1,000 but the pendulum swings...
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 12:05 PM   #9
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I have a bunch of friends who invested heavily in gold near its peak. I feel for them.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 12:11 PM   #10
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Bitcoin is still way too unstable. It had it's trading halted last week for crazy fluctuations.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 12:28 PM   #11
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It's just me, but I prefer something at possesses an intrinsic value. Gold has a lot of properties (doesn't corrode, excellent electrical conductor, and so on) that makes it useful even if its monetary value drops. I've been trying the age old alchemy of turning lead into gold. So far, all I've managed is to turn gold into less gold.

Bitcoin...well it has value because people are willing to believe it has value. As soon as people think it's worthless, it's worthless. *IF* I had any bitcoins and someone wanted to trade for several gold bricks, I would in a heartbeat.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 12:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mousse View Post
It's just me, but I prefer something at possesses an intrinsic value. Gold has a lot of properties (doesn't corrode, excellent electrical conductor, and so on) that makes it useful even if its monetary value drops. I've been trying the age old alchemy of turning lead into gold. So far, all I've managed is to turn gold into less gold.

Bitcoin...well it has value because people are willing to believe it has value. As soon as people think it's worthless, it's worthless. *IF* I had any bitcoins and someone wanted to trade for several gold bricks, I would in a heartbeat.
As is the case with all fiat money.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 01:16 PM   #13
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Do you believe in Gold?

Yes, I very much believe it exists.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 01:20 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by afireintonto View Post
Bitcoin is still way too unstable. It had it's trading halted last week for crazy fluctuations.
They weren't that crazy when you consider some people were dumping enormous amounts of Bitcoins into the market to cash in on the price surges.

Example, several people (or rather users) at 4chan's /g/ board are known to mine bitcoins with powerful GPUs. Furthermore, these users sit on huge stashes of bitcoins. Once the price went up one by one they released these stashes which created the fluctuations (high surplus leads to low price). So on and so forth. Trust me, that board is a bank of bitcoins on its own.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 01:22 PM   #15
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As is the case with all fiat money.
I question whether Bitcoin is fiat money. There's no government calling it legal tender. Accepting it for payment is 100% optional.

If I remembered enough Latin, I'd use the Latin word for "it may be" or "maybe" in place of "fiat" (it shall be).
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 02:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by afireintonto View Post
Bitcoin is still way too unstable. It had it's trading halted last week for crazy fluctuations.
I don't think bitcoin will ever be stable. It isn't backed by anything and there is no government and nation's economy to support it, which is what a fiat currency needs to succeed, so I don't see it ever gaining wide acceptance. Honestly the main uses I see for bitcoin are money laundering, online drug sales, and other illegal activity that you don't want the government to track. However if to many non-criminals start to use it then we will end up seeing all of these fluctuations which makes it bad for any purpose.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 02:48 PM   #17
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Do I believe that Gold ( the malleable, soft, shiny metal: AU, atomic number 79) exists?

Of course. But as an investment, or wealth storage medium? Not so much.

The problem (and this is actually much, much worse with Bitcoin) is that gold has limited liquidity. Meaning that there are relatively few people and businesses who would be willing to do business on the basis of being paid in gold. Don't believe me? Try buying a pack of cigarettes or a Big Mac with a Krugerrand or Canadian Maple Leaf.

On the other hand, the much scorned United States dollar bill has near universal liquidity. Even outside US territory, many, many businesses and individuals will happily conduct transactions in exchange for even the dirtiest, most crumpled wad of greenbacks.

Gold is useful for making jewelry, and has clearly defined physical properties that make it useful in electronic circuit design. But other than that, it has no intrinsic value beyond what people are willing to pay for it. And in this strange world, people are - for some even stranger reason - more willing to trust in the means and willingness of the US government to make good on its obligations than in the the willingness of unknown strangers to pay them for a lump of shiny metal.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 03:05 PM   #18
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As is the case with all fiat money.
At least fiat currency has the backing of their respective Gub'ments. With an unstable economy, I'd still take gold or silver or platinum over cash.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 03:38 PM   #19
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At least fiat currency has the backing of their respective Gub'ments. With an unstable economy, I'd still take gold or silver or platinum over cash.
I'd take food, tools, and ammo over any of those in an unstable economy.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 03:42 PM   #20
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I'm faintly amused no one has mentioned one of bitcoin's most popular uses.

A good chunk of bitcoin's success is due to the fact that it's readily exchangeable, anonymously for a multitude of drugs, such as cocaine, which amusingly is worth a little more than gold at resale values.

I wouldn't say that it's fiat for that reason and that reason alone, the demand for drugs isn't going anywhere and it's cryptographic strength seems to be holding.
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Old Apr 17, 2013, 12:34 AM   #21
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I believe that a currency any currency is as valuable as people's trust in its relationship to true wealth.

True wealth being the things which we actually need and want ie* food, clothing, iPods (edit: and as Mord pointed out Drugs, god we love our drugs) etc.

The only reason that gold became a currency was because it was a generally accepted fact that wealthy people would always buy gold "ie* give you something you actually wanted instead of this worthless metal". Because it was a generally accepted fact that rich people would always buy the gold if you needed actual stuff for it people never had to sell the gold to those people.

Of course gold as a currency now a days is worthless, they'res just no where near enough gold. You also have issues with clipping and sweating if the thing which is your currency is an actual commodity.

Bit coin is even worse its value (which is entirely based on speculation) constantly fluctuates so selling or buying something with bit coin you have no clue what you're getting (or paying).

At least gold has actual use and utility beyond its speculative value.

No one is using bit coin as a true currency they're all using it as a speculative investing tool (same with gold).

This makes them both totally worthless as forms of currency.
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Old Apr 17, 2013, 09:57 AM   #22
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All I know is that any currency that allows you to just make more of it with a few powerful computers is doomed as a legitimate form of payment. It will forever be at the whim of a few tech wizards and a few incredibly wealthy people like the Dinklevosses.

That being said, I love the idea of bitcoins because at this point in our history, the massive accumulation of wealth has caused a stagnation of enterprise. The wealthy aren't using their money for development or growth, but are hoarding it and then spending it on tangible items like real estate or high value trinkets.

Look around you. How many hundreds, if not thousands of things do you see every day that need to be done? When I was growing up we used to have public trash cans, we don't anymore because local governments are pinching pennies. Look at the public landscaping, signage, roads, buildings, whatever... There are tons of people who want to work, and tons of things that need to be done, but the ONLY preventing it is the fact that all the money is held by a tiny group of people and entities.
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Old Apr 17, 2013, 10:45 AM   #23
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I really don't think the two are related. The gold market is multitudes larger than the Bitcoin market. Market is just correcting itself.
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Old Apr 17, 2013, 07:18 PM   #24
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All I know is that any currency that allows you to just make more of it with a few powerful computers is doomed as a legitimate form of payment. It will forever be at the whim of a few tech wizards and a few incredibly wealthy people like the Dinklevosses.

That being said, I love the idea of bitcoins because at this point in our history, the massive accumulation of wealth has caused a stagnation of enterprise. The wealthy aren't using their money for development or growth, but are hoarding it and then spending it on tangible items like real estate or high value trinkets.

Look around you. How many hundreds, if not thousands of things do you see every day that need to be done? When I was growing up we used to have public trash cans, we don't anymore because local governments are pinching pennies. Look at the public landscaping, signage, roads, buildings, whatever... There are tons of people who want to work, and tons of things that need to be done, but the ONLY preventing it is the fact that all the money is held by a tiny group of people and entities.
Money does not (does not) equate to wealth, money is just a controlled representation of debt.

Food is wealth, a house is wealth, apples are wealth money is not wealth.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 02:05 AM   #25
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Where is itcheroni? He was convinced that gold would be over $5,000 by now. Admittedly, I thought it would be under $1,000 but the pendulum swings...
Hello, I haven't frequented this board much lately. I still don't see what the fuss is about. Gold has gone up every year for more than a decade. And sometime soon, it will go down for more than a decade. I don't believe the former has started yet. I think the current bull market has about 3 or so years to go, and it will be the sharpest increase of the entire bull market beginning around 2000.

I remember when Aapl was around $200 at the very end of 2007. It slowly went down to $180, then $160, then $130, then the crash down to $80-90. Everyone was bearish. It's great when everyone agrees about something because it signals you to do the opposite. I'm glad everyone is agreeing about gold. Many of the people who thought gold was a great investment over the last few years have changed their tune. I've been waiting for a sign.

What's fascinating is that despite the drop in the gold price, most sellers of physical gold are totally sold out. It's only the non physical gold you can buy for the current 2 year lows. What does that mean?
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