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Old Apr 18, 2013, 10:44 AM   #1
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Starving Greek children

“When it comes to food insecurity, Greece has now fallen to the level of some African countries” -- Dr. Athena Linos.

This Is the Reality of Austerity: Greek Children Are Starving
Derek Thompson Apr 18 2013, 10:43 AM ET

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It's not fair to blame Rogoff and Reinhart for the austerity craze that has gripped Europe. It is fair to say that their presentation of flawed data about the last half-century of growth and debt was used as intellectual ammunition in a total war on deficits that has destroyed families across the continent.

In Greece, the fog of austerity is more than a metaphor. This winter, a very real cloud of smoke haunted the city at night, as families burned felled trees and broken chairs to stay warm. While the economy has shrunk by a fifth and youth unemployment has screamed past 50 percent, the real tragedy can't really be told with numbers. It's simple, really. Children are starving.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...arving/275105/


More Children in Greece Are Going Hungry

By LIZ ALDERMAN
Published: April 17, 2013

Quote:

ATHENS — As an elementary school principal, Leonidas Nikas is used to seeing children play, laugh and dream about the future. But recently he has seen something altogether different, something he thought was impossible in Greece: children picking through school trash cans for food; needy youngsters asking playmates for leftovers; and an 11-year-old boy, Pantelis Petrakis, bent over with hunger pains.

“He had eaten almost nothing at home,” Mr. Nikas said, sitting in his cramped school office near the port of Piraeus, a working-class suburb of Athens, as the sound of a jump rope skittered across the playground. He confronted Pantelis’s parents, who were ashamed and embarrassed but admitted that they had not been able to find work for months. Their savings were gone, and they were living on rations of pasta and ketchup.

“Not in my wildest dreams would I expect to see the situation we are in,” Mr. Nikas said. “We have reached a point where children in Greece are coming to school hungry. Today, families have difficulties not only of employment, but of survival.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/wo....html?hp&_r=1&

"Austerity" sounds good if you imagine wealthier Greeks having to cut back on their Mercedes habit. But, apparently the austerity plan is not working out quite like they imagined it.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 11:02 AM   #2
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 11:26 AM   #3
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It's all Germany's fault.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 03:20 PM   #4
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I've seen sources saying that Greece is about as economically sophisticated as Mongolia, having been to both I'd say that was roughly about right.

Greece was doing OK while Europe and the US were top dogs, but now that India and China (as well as a whole bunch of other countries) are at least as economically sophisticated as the Greeks (and many of them, like China, are in a totally different league) then they are going to have problems as many Greeks are vastly overpaid.

And these days "some African countries" are pretty rich...

At the end of the day though if Greek people are really starving we could give them food rations.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 03:30 PM   #5
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At the end of the day though if Greek people are really starving we could give them food rations.

What? People are starving and yet the bankers must be paid, and you're advocating food rations? If people can't even afford to eat, how are they expected to pay bills, buy clothes, pay rent, have medicine. How can you build an economy by destroying it? No wonder Golden Dawn are making headway.

Just let Greece leave the euro and then default. It worked for Iceland. Let the creditors take a haircut on their house of cards.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 03:42 PM   #6
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What? People are starving and yet the bankers must be paid,
Personally I think they should declare bankruptcy and tell the bankers to go and **** themselves - that still doesn't mean that their economy will become more competitive.

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How can you build an economy by destroying it?
I don't think they should destroy their economy - they can look east for how to reform their economy. Perhaps doing what the Turks have done would work for them - but I'm sure India, China and South East Asia will have lessons too.

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Just let Greece leave the euro and then default. It worked for Iceland. Let the creditors take a haircut on their house of cards.
Agreed.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 03:55 PM   #7
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I don't think they should destroy their economy - they can look east for how to reform their economy.

As long as they're part of the EU, they'll be trading under any joint trade agreements. They can't organise things as they wish. They should have never been permitted to join the Euro in the first place... and they only did it by cheating with the help of Goldman Sachs.

But this isn't the fault of the Greek people, it's the fault of their elites... none of who will be starving. No good can come from this.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 07:55 PM   #8
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Just let Greece leave the euro and then default. It worked for Iceland. Let the creditors take a haircut on their house of cards.
This is the solution for Greece, Cyprus, Italy, Slovenia, Spain, Portugal and Ireland. Leave, default, devalue, rebuild. While they remain in the euro they remain slaves of the bankers.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 08:12 PM   #9
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This is the solution for Greece, Cyprus, Italy, Slovenia, Spain, Portugal and Ireland. Leave, default, devalue, rebuild.
I imagine it will be the US's path as well.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 08:18 PM   #10
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I imagine it will be the US's path as well.
Doubtful. US doesn't really have a debt problem, and it's in a much more unique position in the world.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 08:19 PM   #11
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Doubtful. US doesn't really have a debt problem.
Of course it doesn't.

What was I thinking?

I must have been feverish.

<-- signs of fever.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 08:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Velvet View Post
What? People are starving and yet the bankers must be paid, and you're advocating food rations? If people can't even afford to eat, how are they expected to pay bills, buy clothes, pay rent, have medicine. How can you build an economy by destroying it? No wonder Golden Dawn are making headway.

Just let Greece leave the euro and then default. It worked for Iceland. Let the creditors take a haircut on their house of cards.
Who is going to benefit in Greece, the starving children or the tax avoiders?
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 08:55 PM   #13
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Of course it doesn't.

What was I thinking?

I must have been feverish.

<-- signs of fever.
See a big number and get scared I guess? Unlike the countries already made here in this thread, the US is a big time manufacturer, and has a diverse economy.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 08:59 PM   #14
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See a big number and get scared I guess? Unlike the countries already made here in this thread, the US is a big time manufacturer, and has a diverse economy.
Are you a time traveller from the 1960's?

That would explain it.

That and the haircut.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 11:03 PM   #15
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Its the fault of CAPITALISM and the IMF.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 11:21 PM   #16
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Guess what...there are kids starving everywhere...

I fail to see how kids in Greece starving is any worse than kids in Brooklyn or Kentucky.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 11:23 PM   #17
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I agree with this... compared to the 1970s and 1980s... Poverty and hunger amongst children has risen in the USA and it continues to climb.. even in Europe as well.. Its terrible to see children go through life like this. I always give to organizations to help fight hunger.. The goal is to provide meals to every child in the world..

No child is left behind.. but yet our governments don't care.. all they care about is shutting down humanitarian organizations for bailing out corporations. This disgusts me very much.

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Guess what...there are kids starving everywhere...

I fail to see how kids in Greece starving is any worse than kids in Brooklyn or Kentucky.
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 02:03 AM   #18
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Its the fault of CAPITALISM and the IMF.
So it is capitalisms fault that the Asians all achieve more for less money?
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 02:17 AM   #19
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I fail to see how kids in Greece starving is any worse than kids in Brooklyn or Kentucky.
Given how rich the US is it is pretty outrageous if there are any staving kids in the US.
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 06:23 AM   #20
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Its the fault of CAPITALISM and the IMF.
Maybe the IMF. Not capitalism.

Capitalism, is responsible for all of the wealth on the planet.
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 06:38 AM   #21
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Given how rich the US is it is pretty outrageous if there are any staving kids in the US.
Especially with how many fat ones there are.
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 06:58 AM   #22
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"just let them leave the Euro and all will be sorted" ...... or maybe not ?

Sure Greece would loose all it's foreign debt, but also all the trust it needs to do buissness in europe.

The new Drachme would loose value quicker than you could look, devastating savings and icomes of average people, while merchants would be very reluctant to take it as long as there are still Euros in circulation.

German inflation of 1923 will look mild in comparison.


The real issue in Greece is that they never decided were the wanted to be:
- wages like in Central Europe (pre crisis)
- corruption like in the Middle East or Latin America
- reliability like in Africa (and not the better parts)
- sill-level/productivity like in Bulgaria

Just look at (as example) how many new/modernized carplants were build in Eastern Europe (some even in East Germany) after the communist breakdown, on the other side I can't remember any talks about building one in Greece (allready a full EU-member at that time).

Greek economy is based on:
- tourism, problem is they are more expensive and less reliable (random strikes on airports or the ferries) than Turkey or the EU members surrounding Greece. Not having to bother with a foreign currency is one of the few plus here.

- agriculture (olives, cheese etc), again hardly competetiv against it neighbours, changing to a new Drachme and it's to expected inflation won't make thinks easier.

- low-tech production ..... well most of thes had allready moved elsewhere pre crisis (reasons see above).


Austerity is not the solution, it's just that no austerity ain't no option at all, the Greek need to grow a different attidute against people gaming the system (big and small).
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 07:45 AM   #23
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Guess what...there are kids starving everywhere....
As in Australia. A few months back our traditionally left, but now centre right Labor Party that has held power for the last 5 years, dumped tens of thousands of single mothers from a pension to unemployment benefits. These families have lost over $100 a week that should have been going to their children's welfare and stomachs. This was done to appease a few greedy rednecks with their own snouts in the middle class welfare trough. Our electoral system effectively hands electoral power to a small vocal disaffected and hateful minority who are bribed through handouts and a bloodletting of the less fortunate.

It looks like we'll have a far right wing psychopath as our next Prime Minister so even more kids will go hungry. One corpulent right wing lobbyist, named Toby Ralph, doing a very poor imitation of Jonathon Swift's satire, has "jokingly" suggested that the poorest 20% of the population be culled to fix our minuscule deficit.

Kill The Poor.

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. Is it fair that those who have underwritten our national prosperity should now stump up even more? I think not, and have a more equitable policy alternative that Government might consider.

Kill the poor.

In contrast to the fabulously rich, the enormously poor make little useful contribution to society. They consume more than they contribute, putting tremendous strain on the national budget.
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 09:54 AM   #24
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As in Australia. A few months back our traditionally left, but now centre right Labor Party that has held power for the last 5 years, dumped tens of thousands of single mothers from a pension to unemployment benefits. These families have lost over $100 a week that should have been going to their children's welfare and stomachs. This was done to appease a few greedy rednecks with their own snouts in the middle class welfare trough. Our electoral system effectively hands electoral power to a small vocal disaffected and hateful minority who are bribed through handouts and a bloodletting of the less fortunate.

It looks like we'll have a far right wing psychopath as our next Prime Minister so even more kids will go hungry. One corpulent right wing lobbyist, named Toby Ralph, doing a very poor imitation of Jonathon Swift's satire, has "jokingly" suggested that the poorest 20% of the population be culled to fix our minuscule deficit.

Kill The Poor.
That mirrors a lot like here in the Netherlands our old Labour party PvDA has morphed into a center right party. Kind of like Blair but without the smile and cool Britannia bit.
Positions now taken by this party mirror how the traditional right wing party in the Netherlands (VVD) thought 20 years ago.

I foresee a time in the very near future in some on the poorer countries of the EU, a return to hard left politics.
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 10:39 PM   #25
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If Greek kids are starving, their parents need to take any grunt-work jobs they can get. More than one each if necessary. The jobs are there, the Greeks just don't want to do them.
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