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Old Apr 22, 2013, 04:55 PM   #1
TedM
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NSFW: Abortion Baby survivor tries to swim out of Toilet

Abortion Survior tries to swim from toilet

I'm not going to take a stance on abortion as I am a male and its not my decision, but this has to be one of the worst things I've ever read.


Edit: Marked as NSFW due to image in article. Its a dead baby....
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 04:58 PM   #2
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Wow that is bad .
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:01 PM   #3
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Abortion Survior tries to swim from toilet

I'm not going to take a stance on abortion as I am a male and its not my decision, but this has to be one of the worst things I've ever ..
I kinda take issue with that. If the woman doesn't want an abortion, and you do, she's making the choice to have a baby for herself and herself only, and in such a case a man should not be legally responsible for a child. It's not fair that men are marginalized on this issue when the baby is theirs too.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:08 PM   #4
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I kinda take issue with that. If the woman doesn't want an abortion, and you do, she's making the choice to have a baby for herself and herself only, and in such a case a man should not be legally responsible for a child. It's not fair that men are marginalized on this issue when the baby is theirs too.
It might not sound fair but at the end, women are the ones that have to bear the burden of carying for 9 months (Both physical and mental) and give birth.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:09 PM   #5
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I kinda take issue with that. If the woman doesn't want an abortion, and you do, she's making the choice to have a baby for herself and herself only, and in such a case a man should not be legally responsible for a child. It's not fair that men are marginalized on this issue when the baby is theirs too.
Poor the men.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:10 PM   #6
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I kinda take issue with that. If the woman doesn't want an abortion, and you do, she's making the choice to have a baby for herself and herself only, and in such a case a man should not be legally responsible for a child. It's not fair that men are marginalized on this issue when the baby is theirs too.
That's a cool idea, I just try my hardest to abstain from political arguments online.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:13 PM   #7
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Poor the men.
Oh here we go already. The you're a man so you can't point out social injustices that involve men card.

----------

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Originally Posted by aerok View Post
It might not sound fair but at the end, women are the ones that have to bear the burden of carying for 9 months (Both physical and mental) and give birth.
They don't have to though. They choose to.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:14 PM   #8
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Oh here we go already. The you're a man so you can't point out social injustices that involve men card.

----------



They don't have to though. They choose to.
And they can choose not to as well.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:16 PM   #9
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And they can choose not to as well.
Sure. Then it's their choice and their responsibility alone.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:17 PM   #10
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That's a cool idea, I just try my hardest to abstain from political arguments online.
For me, personally and specifically, I try my hardest to abstain from political abortion arguments (ironic, that I post this in an abortion thread, I know).

I wouldn't trade my children for the world, whether I was ready for them or not (and I didn't think I was; I had never cared for a child in my life, and that includes babysitting). But seeing the joys I have, I wouldn't trade them at all.

But that also puts me at odds with my supporting women's rights and decisions that they would want to make. I am of no authority to tell anybody (man or woman) what they should or should not do with their bodies. All I do know is that that puts me fairly at both pro-life and pro-choice, but haven't soul-searched enough to be able to reconcile both. So I abstain.

With that said, I exit, Wreck-It-Ralphing with my son all the way, stage left.

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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:22 PM   #11
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For me, personally and specifically, I try my hardest to abstain from political abortion arguments (ironic, that I post this in an abortion thread, I know).

I wouldn't trade my children for the world, whether I was ready for them or not (and I didn't think I was; I had never cared for a child in my life, and that includes babysitting). But seeing the joys I have, I wouldn't trade them at all.

But that also puts me at odds with my supporting women's rights and decisions that they would want to make. I am of no authority to tell anybody (man or woman) what they should or should not do with their bodies. All I do know is that that puts me fairly at both pro-life and pro-choice, but haven't soul-searched enough to be able to reconcile both. So I abstain.

With that said, I exit, Wreck-It-Ralphing with my son all the way, stage left.

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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:29 PM   #12
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That's just awful. In very first place for the victims of this doctor and his practices. But also I'm sure that these incidents will be used as manipulation material against abortion clinics that work clean and strictly by regulations.

(the first comment already talks god/hell/hitler/burn/demons/blabla... now that escalated quickly)
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:31 PM   #13
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Sure. Then it's their choice and their responsibility alone.
Unfortunately for childbirth, it's never going to be equal. Unless scientists find a way for men to carry for 40 weeks.

One thing we do know is that it takes both a man and a woman to make a baby. But only the woman has the burden of doing the work in between creating that baby and the baby being born.

I, too, don't agree that it's fair. But what happens if a woman wants an abortion and the man doesn't? And the minute the baby is born, the man disappears? The mother can't just disappear if she decides at week 20 that being pregnant sucks. It's simplistic, but there really is no fair way to do it. On one hand, I'm for the man having to agree to an abortion and if he doesn't he accepts responsibility no matter what until the child turns 18. On the other hand, he's free and clear for those 40 weeks. The woman doesn't have the same luxury.

Having gone through childbirth and now motherhood, I have very, very mixed feelings about abortion. I don't, however, have mixed feelings about a woman's right to choose.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 05:37 PM   #14
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Unfortunately for childbirth, it's never going to be equal. Unless scientists find a way for men to carry for 40 weeks.

One thing we do know is that it takes both a man and a woman to make a baby. But only the woman has the burden of doing the work in between creating that baby and the baby being born.

I, too, don't agree that it's fair. But what happens if a woman wants an abortion and the man doesn't? And the minute the baby is born, the man disappears? The mother can't just disappear if she decides at week 20 that being pregnant sucks. It's simplistic, but there really is no fair way to do it. On one hand, I'm for the man having to agree to an abortion and if he doesn't he accepts responsibility no matter what until the child turns 18. On the other hand, he's free and clear for those 40 weeks. The woman doesn't have the same luxury.

Having gone through childbirth and now motherhood, I have very, very mixed feelings about abortion. I don't, however, have mixed feelings about a woman's right to choose.
Well I definitely think a woman ultimately has the right to choose, I just think that when a woman is choosing to proceed with having a child, and the father doesn't want it (let's say at the beginning or when they first find out) then he shouldn't be responsible for the woman's choice. To me it's a matter of taking responsibility for your actions. And yes a woman carries a child, but a man also has to provide for the family (not solely, but contribute) and care for the child when it's born.

I think that it should be a mutual decision. And if a woman chooses to not have a child? That would crush me, personally, so I just think that it's fair to give men and women responsibility and choice in the matter. Should a guy be able to up and leave the last week and not be held financially liable? No. The first week should a guy who doesn't want a baby after a one night stand( men and women are equally responsible for sex) have to pay for a child he doesn't want if the woman wants it? I definitely think not.

Ultimately it's the woman's decision, whether to keep the child or not, but the man should have a say too. It's half his. Carrying the child or not, he still carries burdens associated with it.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 06:05 PM   #15
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I'm not going to take a stance on abortion as I am a male and its not my decision, but this has to be one of the worst things I've ever read.
As a matter of a woman's right to choose, it shouldn't extend indefinitely up to the normal point of labor without medical reasons, and it seems at least most states do have laws that place limits on this. The Gosnell trial involves a disreputable clinic. There are other articles that mention the FBI raid, unlicensed staff administering anesthetics, and lack of sterilized equipment. I would not expect pro-choice groups to come to this guy's defense.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 07:18 PM   #16
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Well I definitely think a woman ultimately has the right to choose, I just think that when a woman is choosing to proceed with having a child, and the father doesn't want it (let's say at the beginning or when they first find out) then he shouldn't be responsible for the woman's choice. To me it's a matter of taking responsibility for your actions. And yes a woman carries a child, but a man also has to provide for the family (not solely, but contribute) and care for the child when it's born.

I think that it should be a mutual decision. And if a woman chooses to not have a child? That would crush me, personally, so I just think that it's fair to give men and women responsibility and choice in the matter. Should a guy be able to up and leave the last week and not be held financially liable? No. The first week should a guy who doesn't want a baby after a one night stand( men and women are equally responsible for sex) have to pay for a child he doesn't want if the woman wants it? I definitely think not.

Ultimately it's the woman's decision, whether to keep the child or not, but the man should have a say too. It's half his. Carrying the child or not, he still carries burdens associated with it.
If the woman decides to have the child, the men should acept her decision and help out. Although not his decision, I still think men (including me) should support the child even if against his own will. At the end, it is our fault also for sticking our tool in without contraception. I still say women should have 100% of the say, men should only be allowed to give their opinion.

It is with that knowledge I have lived my life and none of my partners became pregnant.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 07:35 PM   #17
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If the woman decides to have the child, the men should acept her decision and help out. Although not his decision, I still think men (including me) should support the child even if against his own will. At the end, it is our fault also for sticking our tool in without contraception. I still say women should have 100% of the say, men should only be allowed to give their opinion.

It is with that knowledge I have lived my life and none of my partners became pregnant.
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even if against his own will.
Can't ever agreewith that.

And it doesn't matter if men give their opinion, women make the choice either way.

The problem is that women make the choice,not men, yet men have to deal with the consequences, even if it's against their will.

If this was 1500 and people weren't doing abortions, fine. But it's 2013. You can get an abortion. You're choosing to proceed with the baby.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 07:37 PM   #18
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Can't ever agreewith that.

And it doesn't matter if men give their opinion, women make the choice either way.

The problem is that women make the choice,not men, yet men have to deal with the consequences, even if it's against their will.

If this was 1500 and people weren't doing abortions, fine. But it's 2013. You can get an abortion. You're choosing to proceed with the baby.
This is one of those issues where it is hard to tell which side is right or wrong anyways. Either way, wear protection people
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 07:49 PM   #19
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But it's 2013. You can get an abortion. You're choosing to proceed with the baby.
Dude, i finally agree with your posts!

>Have sex
>girl gets preggers
>man doesn't want baby, leaves woman
> ??????
>No more profits for said man, because he is ordered to pay child support. not cool.

I mean, if you're married and your wife has a baby then you should legally have to take care of the baby. But if the parents are both single, then where did the child support consent come from?
The act of having sex?
I hardly consider that a legal contract, especially since you have to be 18 to sign a contract. You don't have to be 18 to have sex or have a baby though.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 07:52 PM   #20
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I'm inclined to use the M-word when the "abortion" happened during the last trimester (in this case, week 29). The most radical pro-choice people here are free to call me narrow-minded if they want to, but this made me really sick!
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 08:10 PM   #21
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I'm inclined to use the M-word when the "abortion" happened during the last trimester (in this case, week 29). The most radical pro-choice people here are free to call me narrow-minded if they want to, but this made me really sick!
I'm not aware of a single US state where where an elective abortion would be legal at week 29. The doctor described in the article is actually charged with murder there, so it's not a very good pro-choice example. Legally performed late term abortions seem to be solely for medical reasons, like if childbirth would jeopardize the life of the mother. State laws seem to cut off no later than 24 weeks, and I suspect not all doctors would agree to perform them that late.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 08:26 PM   #22
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I'm not aware of a single US state where where an elective abortion would be legal at week 29. The doctor described in the article is actually charged with murder there, so it's not a very good pro-choice example. Legally performed late term abortions seem to be solely for medical reasons, like if childbirth would jeopardize the life of the mother. State laws seem to cut off no later than 24 weeks, and I suspect not all doctors would agree to perform them that late.
Right, it's a lousy pro-choice example, which is why I addressed the most radical one(s) in what I wrote.

FTR, I'm pro-choice myself.

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Old Apr 23, 2013, 12:42 AM   #23
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This story is unbearable to me.

My last son was born at 29 weeks. He was only 3LBS. He's now almost two, perfectly healthy and happy.

I was more liberal on this issue at one time. As a libertarian, if someone wanted their murder their unborn baby, that's on them.

However, my own experience with my baby has changed my view. I would ban abortion after 14 weeks except for the most EXTREME of situations. And I do mean extreme: Rape/Incest/Life&Death

I suppose that generally makes me pro-choice, but I call it what it is; baby murder.
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Old Apr 23, 2013, 02:47 AM   #24
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I call it what it is; baby murder.
Isn't that the point of an abortion?
People just use words in place of other words to feel better about themselves.
I'm pro choice, and I'm not afraid to say its murder. Eating meat is murder too.
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Old Apr 23, 2013, 03:02 AM   #25
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Isn't that the point of an abortion?
People just use words in place of other words to feel better about themselves.
I'm pro choice, and I'm not afraid to say its murder. Eating meat is murder too.
Eating a hotdog does not equate shooting your neighbor to death. Neither does the abortion of a non-viable fetus.

Sure, taking life (or even just facilitating it) is killing, but it does not necessarily constitute an act of murder. Even if a flower withers and dies because I picked it, it wouldn't make much sense to call me a flower-murderer, would it?

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