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Old Apr 26, 2013, 02:46 PM   #1
Sydde
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Surviving Utopia (Planitia)

Mars One strikes me as a pretty disturbing concept. Like the author of the linked editorial, I like the idea of manned exploration of space but am not quite sure we are ready for this.

To summarize, Mars One plans to shoot stuff to Mars to set up for their ultimate goal of sending four explorers to the red planet, to land in April of '23. These four will be Martians, they are not expected to return to Earth, which I find a little creepy: imagine spending the rest of your life with 3 other humans, and nowhere to go off to if they piss you off, unless more immigrants can be sent.

Mars One is a non-profit company that expects their project to cost $6 billion.us, about which I have my doubts (W*Mart spacecraft?). So how to raise this money? TV rights: a sort of reality-TV program, [insert imaginative and clever title here].

No tax money would be being spent on this, so they have done a nice job of eliminating that complaint. Still, I feel this is too impetuous, the thought of its inevitable demise is more than a little squicky.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 02:58 PM   #2
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imagine spending the rest of your life with 3 other humans, and nowhere to go off to if they piss you off, unless more immigrants can be sent.
Nothing that hasn't been done before. Colonists were once dropped off on all kinds of remote shores, supply ship then left, and *hopefully* came back some day. If not....well, sorry guys!

Humans need to take more exploration risks.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 03:55 PM   #3
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Nothing that hasn't been done before. Colonists were once dropped off on all kinds of remote shores, supply ship then left, and *hopefully* came back some day. If not....well, sorry guys!

Humans need to take more exploration risks.
Yeah, but the difference is that colonists planted in a remote part of the world didn't have to worry about running out of oxygen or being exposed to a lethal dose of radiation.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 07:08 PM   #4
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I think this is amazing, actually.

Though I agree that 4 people is *far* too few. There should be 12 or so, at least.

Yes, unlike the remote shore example, on Mars you're in an environment that wants you dead.

But we have to start spreading to other planets eventually. Our governments is too shortsighted to spend money on our future, so let's see if capitalism can do it.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 07:47 PM   #5
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I'm pretty sure they plan on sending 4 more people every two years.
So the Martian population will grow.
And the colonists are expected to reproduce.

I wish I could go. Why die here on earth like everyone else?
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 08:26 PM   #6
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Who owns Mars?

The first corporation there?

That doesn't seem fair or wise.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 08:43 PM   #7
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Who owns Mars?

The first corporation there?

That doesn't seem fair or wise.
Actually, I own Mars. I put in a claim many years ago, and no one challenged it...so it's mine.

I am in contact with my attorney regarding rent.

You are on noitce!!
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 10:13 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Who owns Mars?

The first corporation there?

That doesn't seem fair or wise.
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Originally Posted by Shrink View Post
Actually, I own Mars. I put in a claim many years ago, and no one challenged it...so it's mine.
Actually, according to the Space Treaty (I think), nobody can claim recognized ownership of Space or any of the Heavenly bodies. They are essentially owned by all for open access. You can claim all you want I suppose, but nobody of any actual importance will recognize your claim - which is important for ownership.
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Old Apr 28, 2013, 10:15 AM   #9
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Yes, unlike the remote shore example, on Mars you're in an environment that wants you dead.
I would imagine that the people that were on the ships for thousands of miles headed to a "possibility" of land would say that the ocean wanted them dead. The people that explored the polar caps would say that the weather wanted them dead. The people that first climbed Mt. Everest would also say that the mountain wanted them dead. Pretty sure the ocean wanted Don Walsh and Jacques Piccard dead too but they still did it. Lots of things want you dead....bears, tigers, snakes, bugs...just because you can breath doesn't mean a whole lot.

Think of how safe it would be. No dangerous animals or local people to deal with.

Exploration has danger but every day we turn more and more into a nanny state and try to keep people out of danger.
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Old Apr 28, 2013, 10:57 AM   #10
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Exploration has danger but every day we turn more and more into a nanny state and try to keep people out of danger.
Yet extreme sports are all the rage.

Is your perceived nanny state falling down on the job?
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Old Apr 28, 2013, 11:14 AM   #11
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But we have to start spreading to other planets eventually. Our governments is too shortsighted to spend money on our future, so let's see if capitalism can do it.
"Our future" ??? I think you saw to many crappy SiFi-movies....

Mars or any other object in the solar system won't help solving any problem we have and might encounter on earth. Going there for exploration might actually advance science, but building a constant colony is 100% pointless.

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The people that explored the polar caps ....
The people that first climbed Mt. Everest .....
Well alot of them actually died doing that proving Mr Darwin right I'd say There is no good reason going there just like there is no good reason to go to Mars.

Settlers who 1st went to America or Australia did have the option to live cavemen style, something not possible on Mars.
The resources needed to build a really self-substaning colony there are mindstaggering (and would still be only good for very few people with no return of investment possible for earth).
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Old Apr 28, 2013, 01:43 PM   #12
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"Our future" ??? I think you saw to many crappy SiFi-movies....

Mars or any other object in the solar system won't help solving any problem we have and might encounter on earth. Going there for exploration might actually advance science, but building a constant colony is 100% pointless.

@MuddyPaws1



Well alot of them actually died doing that proving Mr Darwin right I'd say There is no good reason going there just like there is no good reason to go to Mars.

Settlers who 1st went to America or Australia did have the option to live cavemen style, something not possible on Mars.
The resources needed to build a really self-substaning colony there are mindstaggering (and would still be only good for very few people with no return of investment possible for earth).
No return of investment possible?

How about natural resources? Minerals? Water (if it is indeed water that NASA might have discovered on Mars)?

Yes, our future. Why wait until we start running out of resources here before expanding out? Sucking Mars dry of resources wouldn't be near as dire as sucking Earth dry.
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Old Apr 28, 2013, 01:52 PM   #13
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Minerals? Water
Water ????

You could probraly de-salt all water in the caspian sea with the same amount of energy/resources needed to get 1l of water from Mars to Earth (and things won't look any better for ANY mineral/metal that might be found there).

For the same reason is there no point to "solve" overpopulation by sending a few 1000 (at best) people there and/or setting up farms up there.

Heck, even if we had a Cpt. Picard style Enterprise at hand it would probraly still economic unsound....
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Old Apr 28, 2013, 02:44 PM   #14
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Actually, I own Mars. I put in a claim many years ago, and no one challenged it...so it's mine.
That's as may be. But "do you have a flag?"

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Old Apr 28, 2013, 02:51 PM   #15
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That's as may be. But "do you have a flag?"

YouTube: video
Of course!!

What, you think I'm some phony baloney guy making a silly claim!?

See the flag...and be warned!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Flag.png
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ID:	409997  
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Old Apr 28, 2013, 03:06 PM   #16
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No return of investment possible?

How about natural resources? Minerals? Water (if it is indeed water that NASA might have discovered on Mars)?

Yes, our future. Why wait until we start running out of resources here before expanding out? Sucking Mars dry of resources wouldn't be near as dire as sucking Earth dry.
In the foreseeable future, mining Mars for resources is more than a little unrealistic. The mere cost of putting one Kg of anything into space right now is $20K.us, and while it could come down a little, it is not ultimately one of those economy-of-scale things.

As it stands, with the nature of orbital mechanics, it takes more energy to get a thing inward vs outward in the solar system, so getting stuff from Mars to Earth is even more costly. Even pure U-235, assuming you could ship it in pure form, which is not possible, would not be valuable enough to pay for itself. Adamantium, Unobtanium or Arakeen Melánge could, maybe, break even.

So, to get a fair RoI, you would have to establish a space-faring society and interplanetary trade, which is more than a century off, if not more. And how an interplanetary economy would work, well, much smarter people than I get headaches trying to imagine it in realistic terms.

As far as water goes, if we had people living on Mars, I imagine they would want to hang on to every drop they had. The piece linked in the OP indicates that Mars' most valuable export will be Reality TV – yeah, we need more of that
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Old Apr 29, 2013, 07:42 AM   #17
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If they can find some constant source of water I'd say it might not be a death sentence. I don't know that I'd want to depend on the backing of a corporation to ensure my supplies come on time. What happens when its not profitable and they decide to cut the plug?
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Old Apr 29, 2013, 11:51 AM   #18
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See the flag...and be warned!
Not a flag to be messed with!

----------

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Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
No dangerous animals or local people to deal with.
Or government. I'm surprised folks aren't lining up to go.
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Old May 2, 2013, 08:22 AM   #19
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Mars One strikes me as a pretty disturbing concept. Like the author of the linked editorial, I like the idea of manned exploration of space but am not quite sure we are ready for this.

To summarize, Mars One plans to shoot stuff to Mars to set up for their ultimate goal of sending four explorers to the red planet, to land in April of '23. These four will be Martians, they are not expected to return to Earth, which I find a little creepy: imagine spending the rest of your life with 3 other humans, and nowhere to go off to if they piss you off, unless more immigrants can be sent.

Mars One is a non-profit company that expects their project to cost $6 billion.us, about which I have my doubts (W*Mart spacecraft?). So how to raise this money? TV rights: a sort of reality-TV program, [insert imaginative and clever title here].

No tax money would be being spent on this, so they have done a nice job of eliminating that complaint. Still, I feel this is too impetuous, the thought of its inevitable demise is more than a little squicky.
If you can find volunteers sure, but what kind of material commitment from Earth will they have? What kind of manufacturing capabilities will they have if any? Will they be in a position to get themselves to a stable self-sustained existence or will they be completely dependent on supplies from Earth? Good luck finding volunteers.

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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Who owns Mars?

The first corporation there?

That doesn't seem fair or wise.
Can't the first person to step on Mars claim the planet? I need to check with an interstellar lawyer.
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Old May 2, 2013, 09:54 AM   #20
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... Can't the first person to step on Mars claim the planet? I need to check with an interstellar lawyer.
Interestingly enough, they're called "space lawyers".
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Old May 2, 2013, 04:37 PM   #21
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I would imagine that the people that were on the ships for thousands of miles headed to a "possibility" of land would say that the ocean wanted them dead. The people that explored the polar caps would say that the weather wanted them dead. The people that first climbed Mt. Everest would also say that the mountain wanted them dead. Pretty sure the ocean wanted Don Walsh and Jacques Piccard dead too but they still did it. Lots of things want you dead....bears, tigers, snakes, bugs...just because you can breath doesn't mean a whole lot.

Think of how safe it would be. No dangerous animals or local people to deal with. ...
Mars has some heady dangers. If the life-support system craps out, you're vacuum-sealed freeze-drie vittles for the next set of colonists (ala Jamestown), however, it's a risk worth taking for the right people.

To push past the bonds of Earth, we have to take risks.

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If they can find some constant source of water I'd say it might not be a death sentence. I don't know that I'd want to depend on the backing of a corporation to ensure my supplies come on time. What happens when its not profitable and they decide to cut the plug?
Simple. Write into the contract a kind of squatters rights for the planet. If the company cuts you off, Mars is yours.
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Old May 2, 2013, 06:36 PM   #22
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We just have to somewhat compare it to the colonization of America minus the liveable environement, the help of natives, the fertile ground, abundance of animal meat, oh hell, they're screwed on Mars...
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Old May 2, 2013, 09:55 PM   #23
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You guys are right. It's too hard. We should never try anything hard.
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Old May 3, 2013, 09:01 AM   #24
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Exploration has danger but every day we turn more and more into a nanny state and try to keep people out of danger.
You need to stay more focused on subject.
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Old May 3, 2013, 10:56 AM   #25
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You guys are right. It's too hard. We should never try anything hard.
For me, it's not simply because it's hard, it's that it seems incredibly expensive/dangerous for something that is fairly pointless. What is there to gain beside bragging rights? The Mars Rover right now is doing a pretty excellent job of exploring the planet as it is; why do we need to put billions of dollars and endanger lives for the sake of reality TV?

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