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Old May 1, 2013, 02:58 PM   #1
Jasonscott71
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Sony Vegas via Windows on a Mac?

So . . . I shudder at the thought, but I really need to be able to edit and render in Sony Vegas, which is Windows only. Anybody have experience with this and can give some advice?

I have an early '11 quad core i7 with 1GB video card, but would Vegas even take advantage of it?

Also, this computer is in the last year of Apple Care and I feel like it may not be up to the task. But if it is, should I do it in bootcamp? It's HD video so I probably can't afford slowdowns and bottlenecks as a result of virtualization programs. But are those pretty much a thing of the past?

If I decide to get a new machine, I'd like to avoid a desktop (need portability) and I'd like to avoid spending $2k again. Is the Intel4000 integrated graphics enough to render HD video in Bootcamp? If so, I'd like to have a MacMini. And if I do that, will a Fusion drive enhance performance on renders?

I would appreciate any and all ideas on what sort of a Mac I could edit a lot on using Vegas through windows (if only they made it for Mac), or if I should just give up and get a Windows desktop (gasp) and have something like a MBA for normal computing tasks.

Thanks!
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Old May 1, 2013, 03:03 PM   #2
simsaladimbamba
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A 2011 i7 quad core MacBook Pro will be more than capable of handling what you want if you do it natively in Windows (no Virtual Machine crap).

The 2012 Mac mini would not be any better than the 2011 MacBook Pro.
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Old May 1, 2013, 05:53 PM   #3
Jasonscott71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simsaladimbamba View Post

The 2012 Mac mini would not be any better than the 2011 MacBook Pro.
Okay thanks, but I actually prefer a MacMini for now. It may not b any better, but would it be any worse? If so, how much? Since the minis only have HD4000 integrated graphics, could it handle HD editing and especially, rendering?

Thanks
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Old May 2, 2013, 02:15 AM   #4
AidanCornelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonscott71 View Post
Okay thanks, but I actually prefer a MacMini for now. It may not b any better, but would it be any worse? If so, how much? Since the minis only have HD4000 integrated graphics, could it handle HD editing and especially, rendering?

Thanks
I've done some editing (and rendering) with the HD4000 in OS X (FCPX) on a Mini and it seems to be capable.

I don't have any experience in particular with Windows and Vegas but I'm sure it would be okay.

The Vegas Pro 12 website has this to say on the graphics matter:

GPU-accelerated video processing and rendering require an OpenCL™-supported NVIDIA®, AMD/ATI™, or Intel® GPU with 512MB memory or more. (please see the GPU acceleration page for more detailed specifications and driver requirements)
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Old May 2, 2013, 07:30 AM   #5
Jasonscott71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanCornelius View Post
I've done some editing (and rendering) with the HD4000 in OS X (FCPX) on a Mini and it seems to be capable.

I don't have any experience in particular with Windows and Vegas but I'm sure it would be okay.

The Vegas Pro 12 website has this to say on the graphics matter:

GPU-accelerated video processing and rendering require an OpenCL™-supported NVIDIA®, AMD/ATI™, or Intel® GPU with 512MB memory or more. (please see the GPU acceleration page for more detailed specifications and driver requirements)
Your rendering and editing was HD footage, is that right?

If so, that's an anecdote worth noting. I'm sure it didn't render in real time or anything, but that's fine with me. If it can handle it 3-4x slower than real time. I just want to make sure it doesn't die mid0render or anything, heh.
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Old May 5, 2013, 08:17 AM   #6
AidanCornelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonscott71 View Post
Your rendering and editing was HD footage, is that right?

If so, that's an anecdote worth noting. I'm sure it didn't render in real time or anything, but that's fine with me. If it can handle it 3-4x slower than real time. I just want to make sure it doesn't die mid0render or anything, heh.
Yeah HD, and yeah it manages fine with a little wait time.
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Old May 5, 2013, 09:19 PM   #7
djpuma
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I edit videos in Sony Vegas 12 all the time on my 2011 MBP 2.3Ghz via parallels.
yeah, it would be faster with bootcamp, but I still can edit and render in 1080P without it being too sluggish.
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Old May 10, 2013, 11:28 AM   #8
telf
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Sony have released "Sound Forge" for mac and they are rumoured to be working on Vegas for Mac, but for now, you are limited to running it on a VM or via Bootcamp.
Firstly, don't get hung up on the video card. If you can watch HD video on your MB now, it will be fine. Your video card has nothing to do with rendering. Focus on grunt for rendering ie: HDD speed, processor and RAM.
I am running Vegas 12 on Windows 7 through Parallels VM (with the help of Macdrive Pro) for quick jobs. For more serious stuff, I boot into Windows with Bootcamp. If setting up a VM, be sure to set up Bootcamp first, then when you install the VM, point it to your existing Bootcamp Windows installation. I'm on a maxed out Retina MB Pro (my first Mac since an old Power Mac desktop) and it is a great mobile editing platform, with 2 x Thunderbolt ports, 2 x USB3s and an SD Card reader.
My plan was to use Vegas while I got my head around FCP, but it works so well on the Mac and I'm already friends with Vegas since about version 3, so I haven't bothered doing much more than play with FCP so far.
Your existing Macbook should be fine for editing. I believe it would have a Thunderbolt port? About the best thing you could do is buy a TBolt external drive, (or at least USB3) enclosure and throw a SSD in it and maybe upgrade your RAM if it is limited. You'd probably want to install the 64 bit version of Vegas instead of the 32 bit one. If you plan to capture HD video, I'd go as far as to recommend tracking down a couple of the Thunderbolt 2 x 2.5" Raid 0 enclosures. Put 2 x SSDs in one as your capture drive and 2 x SSDs or platter drives in the other to render to. This will pay dividends in rendering times, because you're not read/write cycling a single drive.
Good luck!
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Old May 11, 2013, 08:41 PM   #9
Jasonscott71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanCornelius View Post
Yeah HD, and yeah it manages fine with a little wait time.
That's pretty encouraging--thanks for answering.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by djpuma View Post
I edit videos in Sony Vegas 12 all the time on my 2011 MBP 2.3Ghz via parallels.
yeah, it would be faster with bootcamp, but I still can edit and render in 1080P without it being too sluggish.
That's impressive it works well with Parallels. Is this the one with the 1GB discrete GPU?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by telf View Post
Sony have released "Sound Forge" for mac and they are rumoured to be working on Vegas for Mac, but for now, you are limited to running it on a VM or via Bootcamp.
Firstly, don't get hung up on the video card. If you can watch HD video on your MB now, it will be fine. Your video card has nothing to do with rendering.
Hmmm, I admit to being a newbie on video, but I always thought the video card was the end all and be all of rendering. If it's doesn't have anything to do with rendering, then why do people spend all that money on high end video cards?

Quote:
Focus on grunt for rendering ie: HDD speed, processor and RAM.
I am running Vegas 12 on Windows 7 through Parallels VM (with the help of Macdrive Pro) for quick jobs. For more serious stuff, I boot into Windows with Bootcamp. If setting up a VM, be sure to set up Bootcamp first, then when you install the VM, point it to your existing Bootcamp Windows installation. I'm on a maxed out Retina MB Pro (my first Mac since an old Power Mac desktop) and it is a great mobile editing platform, with 2 x Thunderbolt ports, 2 x USB3s and an SD Card reader.
My plan was to use Vegas while I got my head around FCP, but it works so well on the Mac and I'm already friends with Vegas since about version 3, so I haven't bothered doing much more than play with FCP so far.
Your existing Macbook should be fine for editing. I believe it would have a Thunderbolt port? About the best thing you could do is buy a TBolt external drive, (or at least USB3) enclosure and throw a SSD in it and maybe upgrade your RAM if it is limited. You'd probably want to install the 64 bit version of Vegas instead of the 32 bit one. If you plan to capture HD video, I'd go as far as to recommend tracking down a couple of the Thunderbolt 2 x 2.5" Raid 0 enclosures. Put 2 x SSDs in one as your capture drive and 2 x SSDs or platter drives in the other to render to. This will pay dividends in rendering times, because you're not read/write cycling a single drive.
Good luck!
I appreciate the advice here. I actually never dealt with RAID, so I was thinking 2 total SSDs and 1 storage HDD. For that, would you suggest on SSD be the "write to" drive and the other SSD for the OS, plus the video application, and also the capture drive?

Yes my early '11 MBP has one thunderbolt. I'm really looking to not spend a lot of money so I haven't even looked at Thunderbolt peripherals . . .

Anyway, thanks again!
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Old May 12, 2013, 09:39 PM   #10
telf
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Hi Jason,

I'm glad you found that helpful.
VIDEO CARD
Your misconception about the video card is not uncommon and comes about because the word "render" is used in different contexts when talking about video cards and NLE. In the video card world it is used in terms of rendering your display/s. It is mostly used when comparing GPU performance in the all important frames per second generated in video games. In NLE, all it is doing is what you see in your GUI and external monitor if you use one, so its performance is less critical.

Your CPU is doing the big number crunching job in NLE, combining and converting (rendering) your raw footage, graphics, transitions etc into a single video file.

THUNDERBOLT, HDDs....
Doing this on a budget will present you with some decisions to make, but at the end of the day, it will all work. As a general rule, the more money you can throw at it, the less coffee you will drink waiting on a render of you finished project. You didn't say if you are planning to capture the video on you computer. That is the area that is most critical as far as transfer and storage speeds are concerned and that is where you should spend the most money. Go to the App Store and search for "Blackmagic Disk Speed Test" (free). It will tell you exactly what video any HDD you point it at will capture. If you are not doing that, you can relax the specs and expenditure.

You are on the right track with your planned HDD allocation. Leave your internal drive to handle the day to day stuff. The drive you use for your raw footage and/or capture should be the fastest and if possible, the largest. The render target drive can be smaller and slower, because it is only accepting the rendered stream of edited footage. A storage drive may be handy if you need to archive raw or edited footage and don't want to clog up your working drives.

I believe your Mac would only have USB2? If that is the case, you may be wasting money putting SSDs in USB2 enclosures, (fast drive on a slow interface = slow drive). Make friends with your Thunderbolt Port. You can buy a TB dock for a couple of hundred $ that will give you multiple USB3 ports, which will allow you to take advantage of faster drives and still allow you to connect an external monitor via the loop through. You'll find the size of the preview panes in Vegas limiting. Those fusion drives you mentioned elsewhere are good for an OS drive, but not for video.

On the subject of drives, think about how you format them. Fat32 works with both Mac and Windows, but the file size limitation makes is pretty useless for video. Mac Drive Pro or similar will help with the difficulty the two OSs have in reading each others file systems. If formatting an NTFS drive, choose a larger allocation unit size than the default... better for video.

More RAM = more :-)

Cheers!
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Old Jul 7, 2013, 11:15 PM   #11
Jasonscott71
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Originally Posted by telf View Post
Hi Jason,

I'm glad you found that helpful.
VIDEO CARD
Your misconception about the video card is not uncommon and comes about because the word "render" is used in different contexts when talking about video cards and NLE. In the video card world it is used in terms of rendering your display/s. It is mostly used when comparing GPU performance in the all important frames per second generated in video games. In NLE, all it is doing is what you see in your GUI and external monitor if you use one, so its performance is less critical.

Your CPU is doing the big number crunching job in NLE, combining and converting (rendering) your raw footage, graphics, transitions etc into a single video file.
Telf,

FIrst of all, thank you. Secondly, I'm sorry I didn't catch your May 12 reply until just now as I have had to back burner this a bit due to a move, but am now about carry on with all this--starting tomorrow in fact. Quick update is I sold the early '11 MBP and bought a factory refurb late '12, 13" MBP retina ($1360 on apple.com, $340 saved) and can use this for lighter video work (once I learn a good app), will also use it for all graphic design, photography and writing work (and everything else), but will use a windows machine (self build) for Vegas and only Vegas.

As a result of your excellent May 10 advice, I focused on grunt, and resisted the temptation to buy an expensive GPU; I did buy a 2GB nVidia 660 for $195: 960 CUDA cores isn't top of the line but will be helpful in the long run and based on your advice, I believe this will be adequate even for the heavy renders in HD I intend to do. Other than that, I made sure focus on RAM, CPU and SSDs. I have the new Haswell i7 4770k, 16GB RAM @1600, and 2 x 120GB SSDs for edit and rendering, and will then store to HDD. These extra expenditures on the 8 thread i7, extra RAM and SSDs should serve me well in editing HD. Thanks again for steering me right!

As for the SSDs, I was thinking the capture drive (& OS) should be the smallest since I would capture one at a time and I would let multiple files build up to the 2nd SSD, the "write-to" one. I will reverse that idea and follow your recommendation (well they are the same size at 120GB), but can you explain why the capture drive is the more critical one for space and speed?

Also, which SSD should host my OS and Vegas? The same as the capture or the write-to?

I'm doing this build in a few days so want to have it all set. Can't wait to move this all to Mac, but FCP is too hard and iMovie, to me, doesn't make it easy to do tight edits and pinpoint frames.

While I am doing the heavy lifting in Vegas via the new Windows machine, do you have any advice on doing things in Mac OS on my r-MBP? Should I try harder to learn iMovie for less demanding edits/renders? Should I try to learn Premier or Wondershare? Or just wait and hope that that Vegas comes to Mac?

Thanks again for everything.
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