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Old May 3, 2013, 04:01 PM   #1
mcrain
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Hey look, Obama's policies are working!

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Stocks rallied to record highs, briefly sending the Dow industrials above 15000 and pushing the S&P 500 past 1600, after April job growth data handily beat expectations.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose 142.38 points, or 1%, to 14973.96, after touching an all-time intraday high of 15009.59.

The Standard & Poor's 500-stock index, meanwhile, smashed through the 1600-point level, 13 years after it surpassed 1500. The index rose 16.83 points, or 1.1%, to 1614.42. The Nasdaq Composite Index climbed 38.01 points, or 1.1%, to 3378.63.

A Labor Department report showing the U.S. added 165,000 jobs last month bolstered stock-market bulls' argument that the economy continues to recover steadily, to the benefit of companies' earnings and share prices. A handful of shaky economic reports had cast doubt on that view recently, including disappointing payrolls data last month and a weak reading on April's private-sector job growth Wednesday.

"The jobs report certainly puts a dent in the soft-patch worry," said Hank Herrmann, chief executive officer of Waddell & Reed Financial. "The fear has been that we're going to have a repeat of softer data and the market's spring selloff. But with the latest jobs data, we've taken one of the legs off that story."

The gains capped a second-straight weekly advance for the Dow and the S&P 500. The Nasdaq Composite rose 3% on the week, its biggest weekly gain since November, amid a rally in technology shares. WSJ
Imagine how much better things will be when the Congress gets off its ass and fixes the stupid sequester and the ACA is fully implemented!

Are you feeling any optimism despite the petulent obstruction of the GOP, or do you still feel like we can't accomplish anything because of their unAmerican unwillingness to compromise on anything?

(Hope that wasn't too partisan. I was trying very hard to be neutral).
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Old May 3, 2013, 04:04 PM   #2
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Shares are at record highs in the UK too, and the UK government is completely useless.

Personally I thank these guys for high stock prices.
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Old May 3, 2013, 04:07 PM   #3
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Imagine how much better things will be when the Congress gets off its ass and fixes the stupid sequester and the ACA is fully implemented!

Are you feeling any optimism despite the petulent obstruction of the GOP, or do you still feel like we can't accomplish anything because of their unAmerican unwillingness to compromise on anything?

(Hope that wasn't too partisan. I was trying very hard to be neutral).
All I see when I see that the stock market is at its highest is the impending crash that will be much worse than 2008, especially considering we did nothing to fix the structural problems.
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Old May 3, 2013, 04:08 PM   #4
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especially considering we did nothing to fix the structural problems.
a) The global economy is much stronger than in 2008.
b) We have made a significant effort to fix the structural problems.
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Old May 3, 2013, 04:17 PM   #5
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a) The global economy is much stronger than in 2008.
b) We have made a significant effort to fix the structural problems.
No, we doubled down on the repeal of glass -stegal and just handed out money until the banks said they were ok.

We patched a broken damn without caring that the earth holding it in place is eroding faster because of those patches.

What structural changes were made? Banks are bigger than they were. We didn't break up any failed institutions or jail anyone for the clear lies (Jamie Dimon lied directly to congress (it's ok, his buddy leading the hearing made sure none of these people were under oath (unprecedented) so it wasn't illegal) that have been and are still being uncovered.

I'd bet money on it. The next big crash will be this decade, and unless it is met with reforms like in the new deal (it's own can of worms) it will be the end of this economic system (that is, the American corporate brand of capitalism).


Edit, just realized you're from the UK, I'm not familiar with the response on your side of the pond but unfortunately it doesn't matter. The USA is the biggest domino by far (in terms of seeding risk throughout the global economy) and boy are we going to fall hard. That will set in place the failure of the rest of the system. Remember that the first bank to go down, igniting all the rest of the kindling, was less than 2% of the total "wealth" lost but it set the avalanche off.

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Old May 3, 2013, 05:21 PM   #6
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...The next big crash will be this decade, and unless it is met with reforms like in the new deal (it's own can of worms) it will be the end of this economic system (that is, the American corporate brand of capitalism)....
Between Michael Lewis and Matt Taibbi, I'm think you're right: the bankers aren't interested in reforms, they've created a structure of paper profits that hasn't resolved, and they're greedy enough to threaten the whole system again to make their bonuses.

And, there's a structural failure from the rating's agencies like S&P that makes these failures much more likely.
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Old May 3, 2013, 05:25 PM   #7
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Well, we DO have to pay those loans back eventually.
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Old May 3, 2013, 10:20 PM   #8
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Well, we DO have to pay those loans back eventually.
Details...
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Old May 3, 2013, 11:29 PM   #9
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His policies of pumping huge amounts of cash into criminal organizations has worked great! The banks and corporations have way more money than they did before the crash. Meanwhile 40 million people are on assistance just so they can eat, and the middle class is footing the bill so that everyone can be forced to purchase private health insurance. He's so AMAZING!
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Old May 3, 2013, 11:40 PM   #10
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We have made a significant effort to fix the structural problems.
What about the LIBOR thing? Has that in reality been fixed?
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Old May 3, 2013, 11:46 PM   #11
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What about the LIBOR thing? Has that in reality been fixed?
Libor is just the tip of the iceberg. The entire financial system is rigged from within and controlled by a few large banks.

Everything is Rigged

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Conspiracy theorists of the world, believers in the hidden hands of the Rothschilds and the Masons and the Illuminati, we skeptics owe you an apology. You were right. The players may be a little different, but your basic premise is correct: The world is a rigged game. We found this out in recent months, when a series of related corruption stories spilled out of the financial sector, suggesting the world's largest banks may be fixing the prices of, well, just about everything.

You may have heard of the Libor scandal, in which at least three – and perhaps as many as 16 – of the name-brand too-big-to-fail banks have been manipulating global interest rates, in the process messing around with the prices of upward of $500 trillion (that's trillion, with a "t") worth of financial instruments. When that sprawling con burst into public view last year, it was easily the biggest financial scandal in history – MIT professor Andrew Lo even said it "dwarfs by orders of magnitude any financial scam in the history of markets."

That was bad enough, but now Libor may have a twin brother. Word has leaked out that the London-based firm ICAP, the world's largest broker of interest-rate swaps, is being investigated by American authorities for behavior that sounds eerily reminiscent of the Libor mess. Regulators are looking into whether or not a small group of brokers at ICAP may have worked with up to 15 of the world's largest banks to manipulate ISDAfix, a benchmark number used around the world to calculate the prices of interest-rate swaps.

Interest-rate swaps are a tool used by big cities, major corporations and sovereign governments to manage their debt, and the scale of their use is almost unimaginably massive. It's about a $379 trillion market, meaning that any manipulation would affect a pile of assets about 100 times the size of the United States federal budget.

It should surprise no one that among the players implicated in this scheme to fix the prices of interest-rate swaps are the same megabanks – including Barclays, UBS, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase and the Royal Bank of Scotland – that serve on the Libor panel that sets global interest rates. In fact, in recent years many of these banks have already paid multimillion-dollar settlements for anti-competitive manipulation of one form or another (in addition to Libor, some were caught up in an anti-competitive scheme, detailed in Rolling Stone last year, to rig municipal-debt service auctions). Though the jumble of financial acronyms sounds like gibberish to the layperson, the fact that there may now be price-fixing scandals involving both Libor and ISDAfix suggests a single, giant mushrooming conspiracy of collusion and price-fixing hovering under the ostensibly competitive veneer of Wall Street culture.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...#ixzz2SIQ5U3Pw
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Old May 4, 2013, 12:01 AM   #12
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Everything is Rigged


Noooooo!

It can't be true!

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Old May 4, 2013, 02:44 AM   #13
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I think you guys are right and I am wrong.
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Old May 4, 2013, 02:54 AM   #14
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Well, we DO have to pay those loans back eventually.
Why? Nobody gives a damn about the debt. Just more assurances to financial institutions that do care, the other 99% think about jobs, housing, healthcare.

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Old May 4, 2013, 11:32 AM   #15
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The NFP was a complete joke. Hours worked fell which lost the equivalent of 700,000 but its not reflected in the numbers. Birth/death model added 192,000 jobs. Economy needs to add over 200,000 per month to keep employment from shrinking. Most of the new jobs were in hospitality/leisure/temp, i.e. minimum wage. Major economies around the world are slowing and the stock markets are setting new highs on thin volumes while margin is at levels similar to 2007 and 2000 (and 1929!) and central banks are pumping in $160B per month. Its not going to end well.
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Old May 4, 2013, 09:13 PM   #16
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Why? Nobody gives a damn about the debt. Just more assurances to financial institutions that do care, the other 99% think about jobs, housing, healthcare.
That's what the Greeks said.
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Old May 4, 2013, 10:20 PM   #17
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Market indexes are like a speedometer: they have shown us that we can get this rig up to 160mph. I mean, what more do you need to know, that is a good thing, right?
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Old May 5, 2013, 02:17 AM   #18
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That's what the Greeks said.
The Greek economy that is less efficient than China's, and probably most of South East Asia with the wages of central Europe.

Of course they are going to be in trouble.
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Old May 5, 2013, 08:49 AM   #19
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Market indexes are like a speedometer: they have shown us that we can get this rig up to 160mph. I mean, what more do you need to know, that is a good thing, right?
Jim Hightower once said that what we need is not a Dow Jones average, but a Doug Jones average: How is ol' Doug doing? Are his wages keeping up with inflation, or is his buying power backsliding? Are his benefits stable or are they being taken away from him? Are jobs still available in his field, or are they going overseas?

I think we've been conditioned over the years to buy into that what's-good-for-business-is-automatically-good-for-the-country attitude. I'm glad the market still thinks it's a good thing when we're hiring people, but really, a lot of the stock market revival is still based on investments and "productivity" gains (i.e., doing with fewer employees, converting more to part time, etc.).
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Old May 5, 2013, 10:47 AM   #20
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I think we've been conditioned over the years to buy into that what's-good-for-business-is-automatically-good-for-the-country attitude.
Given that business effectively runs the country (cf. gun control legislation), you could see how "they" might want to foster that impression. And the media is a business, most Americans get their information from commercial sources.
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Old May 5, 2013, 03:00 PM   #21
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Between Michael Lewis and Matt Taibbi, I'm think you're right: the bankers aren't interested in reforms, they've created a structure of paper profits that hasn't resolved, and they're greedy enough to threaten the whole system again to make their bonuses.

And, there's a structural failure from the rating's agencies like S&P that makes these failures much more likely.
You call it structural failure, I call it failure by design...aka corporate capitalism run amuck.
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Old May 5, 2013, 07:44 PM   #22
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You call it structural failure, I call it failure by design...aka corporate capitalism run amuck.
I see a big difference between banks and other corporations. Banks were protected by the Federal Reserve when they failed. No one protected the dotcoms in 2000.

The ups and downs in the market have nothing to do with the president but with the monetary policy of the Fed.

Obama doesn't deserve credit for the stock market boom just like Bush doesn't get credit for the housing boom.

Bubbles eventually pop.
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Old May 6, 2013, 12:09 AM   #23
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The ups and downs in the market have nothing to do with the president but with the monetary policy of the Fed.
The Fed! The Fed! The Fed! Blah, blah, blah, you (and others) keep vaguely yammering on about the Evil Fed but have done little-to-nothing to convince anyone. But, just keep repeating it, sooner or later it will become fact.
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Old May 6, 2013, 12:54 AM   #24
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You call it structural failure, I call it failure by design...aka corporate capitalism run amuck.
Certainly there are bankers who believe that the lack of regulating agencies is a benefit, but like deer celebrating the end of the wolves, they haven't figured out that they've designed their own terrible end.


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I see a big difference between banks and other corporations. Banks were protected by the Federal Reserve when they failed. No one protected the dotcoms in 2000.

The ups and downs in the market have nothing to do with the president but with the monetary policy of the Fed.

Obama doesn't deserve credit for the stock market boom just like Bush doesn't get credit for the housing boom.

Bubbles eventually pop.
The influence of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, combined with the corruption of the S&P and the SEC, cheap money from the Fed, not to mention the "exotic" structures created by the banks under the CDS is what caused the boom and bust. We have government fueling an engine designed by the banks to make mountains of short-term cash.

Congress and the White House have been too afraid to strangle the banks because they've been convinced that doing so would damage the economy. In the short-term they were right, but the problem remains that the banks have never been forced to deal with their manipulations—people should have gone to Federal prison—and thus we're limping along.

The Fed is an important part of this problem, especially under Greenspan, but we can't ignore that the banks have acted against their long-term interests.
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Old May 6, 2013, 09:26 AM   #25
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Is it just me, or has all the criticism about the Obama administration been that it has acted too much like a Republican administration in its pro-business activities?

I find that mildly interesting.
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