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Old May 5, 2013, 03:07 PM   #1
Rossatron
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so why *did* Boromir died?

i have read lord of the rings countless times, but only now i started wondering - why is Boromir the only one (except Gandalf, who resurrects) who dies?

what i think is that since "hearts of men are easily corrupted", he, indeed, was corrupted by the ring, even though he did not yield it himself. that is what i think the motive behind killing him was: once he got corrupted, he could not go back to his innocent self, and even though he "came-to" when the orcs raided the fellowship, and protected the hobbits, still there was no going back. if he had survived, he probably would have gone to Minas Tirith with Gandalf, but probably claim the palantir to himself (or at least try to), all the while trying to take Frodo there with him, and once there - he and Denathor would take the ring by force (especially considering how Denathor panicked) to try and lift the siege, and try to overthrow Sauron, but finally succumbing to him, and Boromir (who would yield the ring, if it happened) becoming a wraith.

i was wondering what others was thinking, as i did not find an "official" answer to this
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Old May 5, 2013, 05:15 PM   #2
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Well, LoTR is a series for children. And I've noticed in most things created for children, badass or strong characters cannot win, it always has to be the wimpiest character (so that children believe there is such as thing as a hero kid that saves the world). So in LoTR Boromir was a strong character and he had to die since he was a "bad boy", not a wimpy little kid like Frodo who of course in the end saves the world along with his lovely friends and blah blah everybody is happy forever.

Sorry if I sounded too sarcastic, but I can assure you those are my thoughts.

Of course you can disagree with Frodo being wimpy, "he's strong at heart and so on so forth" but on screen he always looked to me like a scared boy who was carrying a burden he never wanted to.
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Old May 5, 2013, 05:24 PM   #3
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WTF? Aragorn is badass throughout the series and comes out on top so I really don't understand the premise of your argument.

EDIT: FWIW IMO the main plot reason Boromir had to die was to drive Denethor to the edge.

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Old May 5, 2013, 05:29 PM   #4
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WTF? Aragorn is badass throughout the series
Well, in the books, yes. In the films he's more whiny about how he doesn't want power blah blah blah...
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Old May 5, 2013, 05:36 PM   #5
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Well, in the books, yes. In the films he's more whiny about how he doesn't want power blah blah blah...
True he was a bit softened in the movies.

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Old May 5, 2013, 06:10 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ipsychedelic View Post
Well, LoTR is a series for children. And I've noticed in most things created for children, badass or strong characters cannot win, it always has to be the wimpiest character (so that children believe there is such as thing as a hero kid that saves the world). So in LoTR Boromir was a strong character and he had to die since he was a "bad boy", not a wimpy little kid like Frodo who of course in the end saves the world along with his lovely friends and blah blah everybody is happy forever.

Sorry if I sounded too sarcastic, but I can assure you those are my thoughts.

Of course you can disagree with Frodo being wimpy, "he's strong at heart and so on so forth" but on screen he always looked to me like a scared boy who was carrying a burden he never wanted to.




What? Gandalf was trying not kill everyone out of frustration; Gimly is pretty bad ass, and "the elf" (lol) is also tough. And by-the-by, Frodo did not save the world. Have you even read the book?

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WTF? Aragorn is badass throughout the series and comes out on top so I really don't understand the premise of your argument.

EDIT: FWIW IMO the main plot reason Boromir had to die was to drive Denethor to the edge.

B
But wasn't he already at the edge from lookin in the palantir? If I remember correctly, he was ok before the palantir was brought to him ( I think they got it from one of the front line fortresses (like Osgiliat) and when he started to look inside he went nuts. Also I think that the main reason for Boromir going to Rivendeill is because Denethor wanted him (Boromir) to get the ring to himself so Denethor had already "checked out" in that sense
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Old May 5, 2013, 07:35 PM   #7
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What? Gandalf was trying not kill everyone out of frustration; Gimly is pretty bad ass, and "the elf" (lol) is also tough. And by-the-by, Frodo did not save the world. Have you even read the book?
I think we both have a different definition of badass in our minds.
And he did save the world, he saved it from the evil that was the eye (whatever its name was), and after that everything went back to peace. And that's because Tolkien died, otherwise probably he'd had written another story about the next generation and you know the drill.
And I did read the books, circa 2000, but that's not particularly something Imma be proud of, ever.
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Old May 6, 2013, 02:04 AM   #8
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You are very much mistaken. Frodo claimed the ring to himself. Golum was the one who (accidentally) saved the world.
Furthermore, lord of the rings was published in 1954, and went several revisions by Tolkien. Tolkien himself died in 1973, so your argument is invalid.
There was no new generation of evil. Because Morgoth and Sauron were defeated, so any true evil that generated from Morgoth was gone. Any further evil would have come from orcs or such trying to disrupt the ruling of the new line of kings. But that's drifting from the topic

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Old May 6, 2013, 11:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ipsychedelic View Post
Well, LoTR is a series for children. And I've noticed in most things created for children, badass or strong characters cannot win, it always has to be the wimpiest character (so that children believe there is such as thing as a hero kid that saves the world).
Say What?! In the series, Gandalf is arguably the strongest character on the good guys side. He's a Maia, for crying out loud (read the Silmarillion). To put in to perspective what that means, the top dog bad guy in LOTR, Sauron, is also a Maia.

Aragon, Boromir...heck the entire fellowship combined couldn't match a fraction of Gandalf's powers. He could probably wipe out the ring wraiths all by himself.

Boromir had to die because he was outnumbered 100 to 1 AND protecting the hobbits. It wouldn't be believable if he killed all them orc single-handedly, not in a pitched battle. It might have been plausible if he didn't have to protect the hobbits. He could have attrition the orcs, but he'd have to do that Rambo style.

As for the possible reasons why Tolkien killed off Boromir. He's was influenced by evil. Aragon, Gimli, Legolas...none of the Fellowship was tempted by the lure of the Ring. Only Boromir. Because of that taint, he had to be purged from the good guy's side. That's my thought anyhow. The good guys had to be white hat good, boy scout good.
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Old May 7, 2013, 10:53 AM   #10
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S

As for the possible reasons why Tolkien killed off Boromir. He's was influenced by evil. Aragon, Gimli, Legolas...none of the Fellowship was tempted by the lure of the Ring. Only Boromir. Because of that taint, he had to be purged from the good guy's side. That's my thought anyhow. The good guys had to be white hat good, boy scout good.
yep thats what i think too, otherwise one of them would have claimed the ring
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Old May 7, 2013, 12:07 PM   #11
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yep thats what i think too, otherwise one of them would have claimed the ring
... and yet when it all came down to it, it was two flawed hobbits Smeagol and Frodo that destroyed the one ring fighting over it. Of the three that reached Mt. Doom, only Sam managed to resist the ring's lure.



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Old May 7, 2013, 12:08 PM   #12
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Well, LoTR is a series for children.
Having read the series multiple times, I couldn't disagree more.

The Hobbit teeters on being a book for children. LOTR is nowhere close, IMO.

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So in LoTR Boromir was a strong character and he had to die since he was a "bad boy"
This is how the movie portrayed him. The books portrayed him as quite noble, completely loyal to Gondor and Aragorn - not a "bad boy" at all.

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not a wimpy little kid like Frodo
Kid? Frodo was 53 during the bulk of the series. He wasn't a kid by any stretch.

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Have you even read the book?
I couldn't help but wonder the same thing.
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Old May 7, 2013, 12:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ipsychedelic View Post
Well, LoTR is a series for children. And I've noticed in most things created for children, badass or strong characters cannot win, it always has to be the wimpiest character (so that children believe there is such as thing as a hero kid that saves the world). So in LoTR Boromir was a strong character and he had to die since he was a "bad boy", not a wimpy little kid like Frodo who of course in the end saves the world along with his lovely friends and blah blah everybody is happy forever.

Sorry if I sounded too sarcastic, but I can assure you those are my thoughts.

Of course you can disagree with Frodo being wimpy, "he's strong at heart and so on so forth" but on screen he always looked to me like a scared boy who was carrying a burden he never wanted to.
This made me LOL
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Old May 7, 2013, 12:16 PM   #14
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His bravery morphed into hubris.

He increasingly took action more for promoting his own glory. His attempt to seize the ring to use it caused Frodo to flee and broke the Fellowship. He was outnumbers in the attack by the orcs, and his death was a bit of repentance.

But it has been 30 years since I last read the LOTR.
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Old May 7, 2013, 12:22 PM   #15
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Well at least one person had to die or it would have been silly.
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Old May 7, 2013, 12:28 PM   #16
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His bravery morphed into hubris.

He increasingly took action more for promoting his own glory. His attempt to seize the ring to use it caused Frodo to flee and broke the Fellowship. He was outnumbers in the attack by the orcs, and his death was a bit of repentance.

But it has been 30 years since I last read the LOTR.
that's a good view on the matter. i didnt thought about that at all
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Old May 7, 2013, 01:03 PM   #17
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Boromir gave up his mortal life in pursuit of a more noble cause after being twisted by the ring. There have been no human characters that could withstand the power of the ring, especially once they were in possession of it. Keep in mind that Gandalf is not human and even he did not want the burden of carrying the one ring.

I think it did illustrate how quickly the will of men could be bent to the power of the ring, and shows how heavy a burden the quest is for a small hobbit.
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Old May 7, 2013, 01:10 PM   #18
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Boromir always struck me as an example of the clichéd hero (classically brave, handsome, confident, experienced, exhibiting the proverbial strong leadership abilities) gone wrong; he is the hero seduced by a misunderstanding of power and, ultimately lacks depth of character (and self knowledge) to realise what has happened until it is too late to remedy the damage. Ultimately, his choices undo him, every bit as much as his subversion by the ring.

The contrasts with his brother, Faramir, (who faced with choices unerringly chose correctly), and, of course, Gandalf, are striking. (Frodo and Samwise also make morally appropriate choices when faced with such).
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Old May 7, 2013, 10:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Rossatron View Post
i have read lord of the rings countless times, but only now i started wondering - why is Boromir the only one (except Gandalf, who resurrects) who dies?

what i think is that since "hearts of men are easily corrupted", he, indeed, was corrupted by the ring, even though he did not yield it himself. that is what i think the motive behind killing him was: once he got corrupted, he could not go back to his innocent self, and even though he "came-to" when the orcs raided the fellowship, and protected the hobbits, still there was no going back. if he had survived, he probably would have gone to Minas Tirith with Gandalf, but probably claim the palantir to himself (or at least try to), all the while trying to take Frodo there with him, and once there - he and Denathor would take the ring by force (especially considering how Denathor panicked) to try and lift the siege, and try to overthrow Sauron, but finally succumbing to him, and Boromir (who would yield the ring, if it happened) becoming a wraith.

i was wondering what others was thinking, as i did not find an "official" answer to this
Don't be too hard on Boromir. Remember that Frodo succumbed to The Ring as well. If it hadn't been for Gollum, who also had been ensnared, the Quest would have been for naught.

Boromir died because he was outnumbered by orcs while protecting hobbits, but he died clean. I've wondered what would have happened if he managed to wear the ring for even a few minutes...would he have had a place reserved in the Ever-most West the way Sam did?
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Old May 7, 2013, 11:37 PM   #20
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I'm pissed they are making 3 movies, prol 3 hrs each, out of the itty-bitty Hobbit book...
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Old May 8, 2013, 01:22 AM   #21
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Because Boromir was played by Sean Bean. All characters played by Sean Bean are bound to die.
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Old May 8, 2013, 03:37 AM   #22
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Because Boromir was played by Sean Bean. All characters played by Sean Bean are bound to die.
I do believe that Richard Sharpe (lately of the 95th Rifles) against all the odds actually managed to make it to retirement. (Perhaps we'll have a 3 part mini series of him sat in a rocking chair by the fire dribbling and rambling on about all the daughters he's mislaid over the years?)
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Old May 8, 2013, 08:12 AM   #23
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I do believe that Richard Sharpe (lately of the 95th Rifles) against all the odds actually managed to make it to retirement. (Perhaps we'll have a 3 part mini series of him sat in a rocking chair by the fire dribbling and rambling on about all the daughters he's mislaid over the years?)
Bravo. You have made the very post I had planned to make earlier in the day - so you beat me to it!

And, yes, I like the coda, too.......
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Old May 8, 2013, 10:39 PM   #24
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Because Boromir was played by Sean Bean. All characters played by Sean Bean are bound to die.
That's hardly an exclusive club:

"Baby don't cry, praise the most high
I tell you no lie, we're all gonna die"

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Old May 11, 2013, 05:07 PM   #25
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Don't be too hard on Boromir. Remember that Frodo succumbed to The Ring as well. If it hadn't been for Gollum, who also had been ensnared, the Quest would have been for naught.

Boromir died because he was outnumbered by orcs while protecting hobbits, but he died clean. I've wondered what would have happened if he managed to wear the ring for even a few minutes...would he have had a place reserved in the Ever-most West the way Sam did?
I'm not hard on him. Maybe this was done to be some kind of a warning to the others - show how much power the ring has on people.
If he got the ring his name probably would not appear there.

But on a more gentle point of view, say he got within a reach of the ring, wore it while the orcs were there - so the hobbits perhaps were kidnapped but he survives. But, and that's where I'm driving at, after the fight he would realize the power of the thing, and he probably recognized some of the wraiths in the darkness - he would realize the danger of the ring and remove it immidiately after the fight and hand it back to Frodo. Then he probably would've gotten a ticket to the gray havens....
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