Do we need a new finder?

MacBytes · Oct 31, 2005, 12:27 PM

Category: Mac OS X
Link: Do we need a new finder?

Posted on MacBytes.com
Approved by Mudbug

hob · Oct 31, 2005, 12:47 PM

I agree with that guy 100% - finder has bugs! Try clicking on file save on my PM G5 and it hangs for about 10-40 seconds whilst all the disks spin up...

Erendiox · Oct 31, 2005, 12:59 PM

I dunno. I can see how there's plenty of nitpicking to be done about the finder, but I personally find it to be MUCH more enjoyable to use than windows. Thats enough for me.

Blue Velvet · Oct 31, 2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Why, for example, can't you add items to the Sidebar?

Erm... I don't have problems adding items to the Sidebar at all. Is this guy clueless?

mkubal · Oct 31, 2005, 01:32 PM

About the only thing I dislike is when I right click an icon to get a contextual menu and then go to "open with," I have to wait 10 seconds or so for it to spool all the disks and figure out what can open that file. Why can't this be cached in some way?

iEdd · Oct 31, 2005, 01:38 PM

Hmm.. The only prob I'm having with finder atm, is clicking on one of my mov files that I've rotoscoped lightsabers into. As soon as I click it once, it starts to load the preview thing at the right, then finder crashes.

simX · Oct 31, 2005, 01:44 PM

OK, to the writer of this "newsletter", say it with me, together now...

"IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER THE FINDER IS WRITTEN IN CARBON OR COCOA!"

Seriously, tell us specifically what bugs you want fixed, NOT that you think the bugs are there simply because of the programming language the Finder is written in. News flash: the same bad decisions and bad programming will lead to a similarly buggy Finder, whether or not it was programmed in Carbon or Cocoa.

... and that little comment in the newsletter pretty much makes me ignore everything else that was said.

SiliconAddict · Oct 31, 2005, 02:42 PM

Umm heck yes.

~Shard~ · Oct 31, 2005, 02:56 PM

Sure, Finder has some limitations and room for improvement, but show me an application that doesn't. Also, sometimes these types of "complaints" are subjective, as different people use the Finder for different things/in different ways. Or, some people simply don't know how to use it properly, or are unaware of all the functionality that exists which might make things easier for them. Finder can't be all things for all people all the time. And for my needs, it's definitely more than adequate.

Spectrum · Oct 31, 2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Velvet

Erm... I don't have problems adding items to the Sidebar at all. Is this guy clueless?

I think the author means when you are in the middle of a save dialogue box. The drop down window looks like a standard finder window (albeit aqua, not brushed metal), but you cannot drag things around,etc.

My opinions :-)

I for one merely humour the OSX finder in comparison to the way I embraced late stage OS9. I find

it less intuitive, and very buggy.

Why, for example, are viewing preferences constantly changing from how you last left them?

Why don't file/folder icons change colour like they used to when you alter their label? e.g. is that file RED? or did I select it? (if red is your highlight colour that is)

How come you have to do different things to edit file/folder titles in the different views? - column/list you need to click, then click again. icon view you just need to click and then wait (the old way).

Ever since it was born the OSX finder has seemed slower to navigate than OS9 (as used on a g3/450 powerbook). Finally with my 1.67Ghz PB and Tiger, it is approaching a similar level of snappiness.

Finally, I much preferred the way that a file/folder could only exist in one place EVER on OS9. Thus duplicate finder windows in OSX should be disabled (or at least disableable). They are confusing, and make me feel like I'm using Windows. For me, it was the flexibility and ease of use of the OS9 Finder that won me over. Now I have to remember the path/path/path/path/ etc to get somewhere.

I yearn to be able to navigate there visually like the way I did in OS9.

Finally, the brushed metal look has dated rapidly, and IMO is very wasteful of screen space.

rant over. :-)

SummerBreeze · Oct 31, 2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erendiox

I dunno. I can see how there's plenty of nitpicking to be done about the finder, but I personally find it to be MUCH more enjoyable to use than windows. Thats enough for me.

I agree. It is far superior to the Windows explorer (which inexplicably quits almost every time I run Windows), and I don't really have too many gripes with it.

ethernet76 · Oct 31, 2005, 05:03 PM

I want smart management of network disks.

My powerbook has a **** fit every time I close the lid and wake it when I'm connected to network disks.

This simple problems shouldn't be able to bring the finder to a halt for over a minute.

PCMacUser · Oct 31, 2005, 05:17 PM

I'd definitely like finder to be more like windows explorer (braces for flamings).

khammack · Oct 31, 2005, 05:38 PM

Am I missing something here?

Close all finder windows, then open one (gets your home dir).

Click on the little bubble in the upper right corner. The brushed metal disappears.

Go to Finder -> Preferences -> General, check "Always open folders in a new window"

Is this not how pre-OSX finder worked? I could be wrong, I haven't used that thing in years and was never an advanced MacOS finder user. But this seems to match the behavior that everyone is describing.

-kev

~Shard~ · Oct 31, 2005, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCMacUser

I'd definitely like finder to be more like windows explorer (braces for flamings).

Not flaming at all, but can you explain what specific features of Windows Explorer you would like to see in Finder?

123 · Oct 31, 2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simX

OK, to the writer of this "newsletter", say it with me, together now...

"IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER THE FINDER IS WRITTEN IN CARBON OR COCOA!"

Seriously, tell us specifically what bugs you want fixed, NOT that you think the bugs are there simply because of the programming language the Finder is written in. News flash:

News flash: READ THE ARTICLE.

"To some, the fault lies in the fact that the Finder was programmed in Carbon rather than Cocoa. I won't even begin to tackle programming issues and the logic behind Apple's choices. I just want it fixed."

PlaceofDis · Oct 31, 2005, 05:44 PM

not a new one, but an improved one would do just fine i think

~Shard~ · Oct 31, 2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlaceofDis

not a new one, but an improved one would do just fine i think

Absolutely - as I said above, there's always room for improvement. That being said, you can't please all the people all the time, so there will always be people who would like to see things done a bit differently, but hey, what can you do?...

I'll be interested to see what Jobs has in store for Leopard's Finder. Or Leopard itself, for that matter...

PlaceofDis · Oct 31, 2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Shard~

Absolutely - as I said above, there's always room for improvement. That being said, you can't please all the people all the time, so there will always be people who would like to see things done a bit differently, but hey, what can you do?...

I'll be interested to see what Jobs has in store for Leopard's Finder. Or Leopard itself, for that matter...

i agree, and am looking forward to what is in store for us....

i think the finder has a lot of wasted space right now, things need to be tightened up and made a bit more visual orientied. better view options, and remembering settings etc.

its not bad by any means, but could certainly use some work.

~Shard~ · Oct 31, 2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlaceofDis

i agree, and am looking forward to what is in store for us....

i think the finder has a lot of wasted space right now, things need to be tightened up and made a bit more visual orientied. better view options, and remembering settings etc.

its not bad by any means, but could certainly use some work.

Yes, remembering folder settings is a big pet peeve of mine - they could definitely improve that in the future!

simX · Oct 31, 2005, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 123

News flash: READ THE ARTICLE.

"To some, the fault lies in the fact that the Finder was programmed in Carbon rather than Cocoa. I won't even begin to tackle programming issues and the logic behind Apple's choices. I just want it fixed."

I did read the article. He already began to tackle the "programming issues" simply by bringing it up. He could have easily just said "OMG there are too many bugs in the Finder and I want them fixed" but he has to mention the Carbon vs. Cocoa thing in passing.

Eric5h5 · Oct 31, 2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simX

"IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER THE FINDER IS WRITTEN IN CARBON OR COCOA!"

Seriously, tell us specifically what bugs you want fixed, NOT that you think the bugs are there simply because of the programming language the Finder is written in. News flash: the same bad decisions and bad programming will lead to a similarly buggy Finder, whether or not it was programmed in Carbon or Cocoa.

News flash: neither Carbon nor Cocoa are programming languages. They are application environments. Cocoa is largely tied to Objective-C, while Carbon is pretty much language-independent. Cocoa is more high-level, whereas Carbon requires more low-level housekeeping with such things as mouse clicks and so on. Therefore, the Finder being Carbon is theoretically more bug-prone since there's more for the programmers to keep track of.

--Eric

frogbat · Nov 1, 2005, 05:19 AM

i use windows at work and os x at home and would definitely love a hybrid of both ( tho admittedly i/'m still on panther so i havne't enjoyed the benefits of spotlight yet)

- windows has an excellent thumbnail mode
- the ability to view data by their meta data in details view
- i'd love to be able to filter files according to filetype, date created etc in any mode esp column mode - ( i often have to switch between column and list)
- column mode needs to be a bit more intuitive as there's little feedback at times - i get confused as to which folder i'm actually in
- i'd like the views to be able to support keyboard input better - if i start typing the name of the files it should find them - so far it does a half arsed job
- the file requestors should like, windows afford the functionality of the finder with perhaps some mac nanny-ing like enabling an advanced mode or asking multiple times if i'm sure i'd like to delete a file

one thing apple should never do though is to confuse the web broswer with the file browser.

i've found a couple of utilities such as pathfinder and some file requestor replacement sw but i've found them too slow to use on a daily basis

sjk · Nov 1, 2005, 12:18 PM

shidoshi's 10.5 Finder mockup (via a post in Mac OS X 10.5 Details?) is pretty cool.

dubbz · Nov 1, 2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjk

shidoshi's 10.5 Finder mockup (via a post in Mac OS X 10.5 Details?) is pretty cool.

Ok, that one looks great!

The Finder doesn't really have to be replaced, but definitely need a little work.

Oct 31, 2005, 12:27 PM	#1
MacBytes macrumors bot Join Date: Jul 2003	Do we need a new finder? Category: Mac OS X Link: Do we need a new finder? Posted on MacBytes.com Approved by Mudbug
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 12:47 PM	#2
hob macrumors 68020 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: London, UK	I agree with that guy 100% - finder has bugs! Try clicking on file save on my PM G5 and it hangs for about 10-40 seconds whilst all the disks spin up... __________________ see robmac.net for my work
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 12:59 PM	#3
Erendiox macrumors 6502a Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Brooklyn NY	I dunno. I can see how there's plenty of nitpicking to be done about the finder, but I personally find it to be MUCH more enjoyable to use than windows. Thats enough for me. __________________ Eighthinch Pictures
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 01:44 PM	#7
simX macrumors 6502a Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bay Area, CA	OK, to the writer of this "newsletter", say it with me, together now... "IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER THE FINDER IS WRITTEN IN CARBON OR COCOA!" Seriously, tell us specifically what bugs you want fixed, NOT that you think the bugs are there simply because of the programming language the Finder is written in. News flash: the same bad decisions and bad programming will lead to a similarly buggy Finder, whether or not it was programmed in Carbon or Cocoa. ... and that little comment in the newsletter pretty much makes me ignore everything else that was said. __________________ -- simX
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 02:42 PM	#8
SiliconAddict macrumors 601 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicago, IL	Umm heck yes. __________________ -iPod Video 160GB -MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.33Ghz/3GB RAM/250GB -Newton 4700 (a.k.a iPaq 4700) -Dell 2405FPW 24" Widescreen
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 01:32 PM	#5
mkubal macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tampa	About the only thing I dislike is when I right click an icon to get a contextual menu and then go to "open with," I have to wait 10 seconds or so for it to spool all the disks and figure out what can open that file. Why can't this be cached in some way?
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 01:38 PM	#6
iEdd macrumors 68000 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia	Hmm.. The only prob I'm having with finder atm, is clicking on one of my mov files that I've rotoscoped lightsabers into. As soon as I click it once, it starts to load the preview thing at the right, then finder crashes.
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 02:56 PM	#9
~Shard~ macrumors P6 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: 1123.6536.5321	Sure, Finder has some limitations and room for improvement, but show me an application that doesn't. Also, sometimes these types of "complaints" are subjective, as different people use the Finder for different things/in different ways. Or, some people simply don't know how to use it properly, or are unaware of all the functionality that exists which might make things easier for them. Finder can't be all things for all people all the time. And for my needs, it's definitely more than adequate. __________________ My riches consist not in the extent of my possessions, but in the fewness of my wants. - J. Brotherton
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 05:03 PM	#12
ethernet76 macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jul 2003	I want smart management of network disks. My powerbook has a **** fit every time I close the lid and wake it when I'm connected to network disks. This simple problems shouldn't be able to bring the finder to a halt for over a minute.
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 05:17 PM	#13
PCMacUser macrumors 68000 Join Date: Jan 2005	I'd definitely like finder to be more like windows explorer (braces for flamings).
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 05:38 PM	#14
khammack macrumors regular Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Portland, OR	Am I missing something here? Close all finder windows, then open one (gets your home dir). Click on the little bubble in the upper right corner. The brushed metal disappears. Go to Finder -> Preferences -> General, check "Always open folders in a new window" Is this not how pre-OSX finder worked? I could be wrong, I haven't used that thing in years and was never an advanced MacOS finder user. But this seems to match the behavior that everyone is describing. -kev
	0

Oct 31, 2005, 05:44 PM	#17
PlaceofDis macrumors 604 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Chicago.	not a new one, but an improved one would do just fine i think __________________ dim my eyes on the waves of confessions...
	0

Nov 1, 2005, 05:19 AM	#23
frogbat macrumors newbie Join Date: Oct 2004	i use windows at work and os x at home and would definitely love a hybrid of both ( tho admittedly i/'m still on panther so i havne't enjoyed the benefits of spotlight yet) - windows has an excellent thumbnail mode - the ability to view data by their meta data in details view - i'd love to be able to filter files according to filetype, date created etc in any mode esp column mode - ( i often have to switch between column and list) - column mode needs to be a bit more intuitive as there's little feedback at times - i get confused as to which folder i'm actually in - i'd like the views to be able to support keyboard input better - if i start typing the name of the files it should find them - so far it does a half arsed job - the file requestors should like, windows afford the functionality of the finder with perhaps some mac nanny-ing like enabling an advanced mode or asking multiple times if i'm sure i'd like to delete a file one thing apple should never do though is to confuse the web broswer with the file browser. i've found a couple of utilities such as pathfinder and some file requestor replacement sw but i've found them too slow to use on a daily basis __________________ u2emporium.com
	0

Nov 1, 2005, 12:18 PM	#24
sjk macrumors 6502a Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eugene	shidoshi's 10.5 Finder mockup (via a post in Mac OS X 10.5 Details?) is pretty cool.
	0

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