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Old May 26, 2013, 03:33 PM   #1
Lil Chillbil
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Haswell Mac mini to have 25% better Intel HD graphics

From what i'm seeing, the mac minis big selling point on apples page right now is its intel hd graphics for gaming. And the new haswell chips are expected to be more efficent which means cooler running. And have a much better upgraded version of intel hd graphics.
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Last edited by Lil Chillbil; May 26, 2013 at 04:08 PM.
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Old May 26, 2013, 04:06 PM   #2
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From what i'm seeing, the mac minis big selling point on apples page right now is its intel hd graphics for gaming. And the new haswell chips are expected to be more efficent which means a smaller powerbrick. And have a much better upgraded version of intel hd graphics.
The Mac mini doesn't use a powerbrick as it has a built in power supply.
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Old May 26, 2013, 04:08 PM   #3
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The Mac mini doesn't use a powerbrick.
When did this happen? sorry The last time I owned a mac mini it was a g4


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Old May 26, 2013, 04:26 PM   #4
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Only 25%? I thought those GPUs were like 100% (double) or more over the HD4000?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6926/i...e-gets-a-brand

Double the performance for 50% of the power sounds like a vast improvement to me.
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Old May 26, 2013, 05:06 PM   #5
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When did this happen? sorry The last time I owned a mac mini it was a g4
They have had an internal power supply since the "unibody" redesign in 2010.
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Old May 26, 2013, 05:17 PM   #6
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Only 25%? I thought those GPUs were like 100% (double) or more over the HD4000?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6926/i...e-gets-a-brand

Double the performance for 50% of the power sounds like a vast improvement to me.
the 4000 was supposed to be 25 to 50 % better then the 3000. It started out with bad errors a screen flicker that took a month or so to fix. Then the crushed white problem took until feb of this year to fix. Now I would say the 4000 is better then the 3000.

Based on Apple and Macmini graphics past history this will be a disappointment need patches and maybe 4 months after it comes out be 25% better then the 4000.

Since 2006 at least 3 different minis came out with defective graphic drivers that need patches. So those waiting for the Haswell stand a very good chance of waiting until 2014 for corrected graphics on it.
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Old May 26, 2013, 06:14 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Lil Chillbil View Post
When did this happen? sorry The last time I owned a mac mini it was a g4


edited
I want to say 2010.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kurzz View Post
Only 25%? I thought those GPUs were like 100% (double) or more over the HD4000?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6926/i...e-gets-a-brand

Double the performance for 50% of the power sounds like a vast improvement to me.
I wouldn't believe everything you read. First there are several versions, and we don't know which will make it into the Mini. Beyond that 50% of the power draw isn't happening. The power management is supposedly much more aggressive with Haswell. Peak power draw isn't supposed to be much lower.

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Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
the 4000 was supposed to be 25 to 50 % better then the 3000. It started out with bad errors a screen flicker that took a month or so to fix. Then the crushed white problem took until feb of this year to fix. Now I would say the 4000 is better then the 3000.

Based on Apple and Macmini graphics past history this will be a disappointment need patches and maybe 4 months after it comes out be 25% better then the 4000.

Since 2006 at least 3 different minis came out with defective graphic drivers that need patches. So those waiting for the Haswell stand a very good chance of waiting until 2014 for corrected graphics on it.
Sadly intel
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Old May 26, 2013, 11:30 PM   #8
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Sadly intel

Yeah I started with the mini in 2006 which was the first year of Intel and minis.

The nvidia chipset had a lot of issues with 10.6 snow. blackouts and flicker.

the 4000 had issues. I want to say so did the 9400 but that was a while back
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Old May 26, 2013, 11:47 PM   #9
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You can probably achieve 20% of the 25% by just updating the graphics drivers. Or Apple can not upgrade the drivers, and make it seem like the new 4200 is soooooo much better than the 4000. It's not, the big difference is the much lower power requirements for the (roughly) same performance.
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Old May 27, 2013, 12:23 AM   #10
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Yeah I started with the mini in 2006 which was the first year of Intel and minis.

The nvidia chipset had a lot of issues with 10.6 snow. blackouts and flicker.

the 4000 had issues. I want to say so did the 9400 but that was a while back
Huh it chopped my post earlier. I was saying sadly intel graphics have been subject to a number of driver bugs at launch. Outside of those they're actually good enough for a lot of things. I was unaware of those NVidia problems.
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Old May 27, 2013, 05:51 PM   #11
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Only 25%? I thought those GPUs were like 100% (double) or more over the HD4000?
That is the improvement on Windows & Linux machines with optimized drivers and certain software. On OS X machines, the improvement is probably something between 40-50 %, compared with Ivy Bridge.
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Old May 27, 2013, 06:09 PM   #12
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I want to say 2010.
Correct.

Power supply of the Mac mini 2010:
http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net...6XhdXsDG.large

Power supply of the Mac mini Late-2009
http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net...1qtyfSkR.large
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 02:06 AM   #13
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I'm in the market for a Mac Mini. I'm really hoping for a smaller, more modern form factor as the only reason Mac Minis were made that size was to accommodate an optical drive which aren't even in them any more. The size of the Intel NUC is what they should aim towards but admittedly, the NUC has an external power brick. Maybe a return of the cube form factor but tiny!
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 03:57 AM   #14
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I think the current sizing is fine especially given I have the 2009 with external power brick and whilst not ideal I find the size of the machine fine. It would be nice if it were available in black as mine lives under / next to the tv.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 04:04 AM   #15
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I'm in the market for a Mac Mini. I'm really hoping for a smaller, more modern form factor as the only reason Mac Minis were made that size was to accommodate an optical drive which aren't even in them any more. The size of the Intel NUC is what they should aim towards but admittedly, the NUC has an external power brick. Maybe a return of the cube form factor but tiny!
The mac mini is pretty much the best small form factor computer available. It's about as modern as it gets. The size allows it to accommodate 2 hard drives and an internal psu. How much more modern do you want? The argument that its size was dictated by optical media was thrown out the window back in 2010 when the entire mini was substantially wider than an optical drive needed to be.

Its form factor is not dictated by optical media.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 07:00 AM   #16
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But how is that shape good unless you want to stack them in a server farm? I just can't think of a single reason.

Current form factor started with:

- A core 2 duo which required significantly more motherboard space
- Separate dedicated video
- An internal 2.5" hdd - Nowadays a single NGFF SSD is considerably smaller
- An optical drive - not needed now

I think a 3.5" cube would be ideal and easily achievable, even with an inbuilt PSU.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 04:22 AM   #17
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The mac mini is pretty much the best small form factor computer available. It's about as modern as it gets. The size allows it to accommodate 2 hard drives and an internal psu. How much more modern do you want? The argument that its size was dictated by optical media was thrown out the window back in 2010 when the entire mini was substantially wider than an optical drive needed to be.

Its form factor is not dictated by optical media.
I'm also wondering if next Haswell will have or not Thundebolt 2 inside..or will it remain a Mac Pro exclusive?
I mean i heard TB2 could come also on next late 2013 Mac BooK Pro ..maybe because Broadwell seems shifted from 2014 to 2015...
just rumors i know..so i'm just trying to understand..
even because i fear the Mac Pro entry level to be really expensive and without any replaceable Gpu inside...and i don't need a mini with steroids..also because i have already an Imac 27 so...
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 06:55 AM   #18
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But how is that shape good unless you want to stack them in a server farm? I just can't think of a single reason.

Current form factor started with:

- A core 2 duo which required significantly more motherboard space
- Separate dedicated video
- An internal 2.5" hdd - Nowadays a single NGFF SSD is considerably smaller
- An optical drive - not needed now

I think a 3.5" cube would be ideal and easily achievable, even with an inbuilt PSU.
I believe when the mini was last redesigned, Apple adopted the footprint of the Airport Extreme.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 10:49 AM   #19
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I believe when the mini was last redesigned, Apple adopted the footprint of the Airport Extreme.
That is not correct. The Airport Extreme is 1.5" smaller in width and depth.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 02:02 PM   #20
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That is not correct. The Airport Extreme is 1.5" smaller in width and depth.
Oops. The previous mini and Airport Extreme used the same footprint. Thanks for the correction.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 09:16 PM   #21
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Current form factor started with:

- A core 2 duo which required significantly more motherboard space
- Separate dedicated video
- An internal 2.5" hdd - Nowadays a single NGFF SSD is considerably smaller
- An optical drive - not needed now

I think a 3.5" cube would be ideal and easily achievable, even with an inbuilt PSU.
This is interesting. I'm not sure the mini is due for a new design, but given the move away from optical drives in 2011, the move toward PCI-E based SSD storage (m.2, formerly known as Next Gen Form Factor or NGFF) it may be significantly smaller in both size and power consumption. There is already a great deal of unused space in the minis.

But a new form factor may not happen until 2014 given cost (the mini is the low-cost entry mac) and 2.5mm hard drives and SSDs should remain cheaper than the m.2 (or custom Apple-connector) PCI-E based SSDs. Having said that, the iMac is already using the smaller blade SSD.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 11:38 PM   #22
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This is interesting. I'm not sure the mini is due for a new design, but given the move away from optical drives in 2011, the move toward PCI-E based SSD storage (m.2, formerly known as Next Gen Form Factor or NGFF) it may be significantly smaller in both size and power consumption. There is already a great deal of unused space in the minis.

But a new form factor may not happen until 2014 given cost (the mini is the low-cost entry mac) and 2.5mm hard drives and SSDs should remain cheaper than the m.2 (or custom Apple-connector) PCI-E based SSDs. Having said that, the iMac is already using the smaller blade SSD.
building up would be worse for heat flow in the mini. One of the advantages to its current design is that the heat just has to go up to its largest heat sink (the largest surface of its exterior.
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