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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:30 PM   #1
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Justice Department Presents Opening Arguments Against Apple in E-Book Price Fixing Trial




In a Manhattan courtroom this morning, the U.S. Department of Justice presented its opening arguments in USA v Apple Inc, the antitrust e-book price fixing trial. The DoJ filed suit last April and Apple has consistently defended itself and has said the accusations are "simply not true".

According to AllThingsD, Justice Department attorney Lawrence Buterman presented the government's case this morning, using a slideshow filled with email and phone record evidence that the government says shows Apple colluded with book publishers to drive up the cost of e-books ahead of the launch of the iBookstore.

var docstoc_docid="158797523";var docstoc_title="U.S. v. Apple et al Opening Slides";var docstoc_urltitle="U.S. v. Apple et al Opening Slides";
For its part, Apple's lead attorney claims the company was using the same strategies that worked when the company was building the iTunes Music Store to get contracts with the major book publishers. From Apple 2.0:
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Apple's opening statement [...] tried to pull the rug out from under everything the DOJ had just presented. [Apple SVP Eddy] Cue, Snyder claims, was just trying to break into a crowded e-book market (one dominated by Amazon) using precisely the same approach he used when he got the company into the music market with iTunes and the applications market with the App Store. Those innovation poured billions of dollars into the U.S. economy, he said. "Apple should be applauded, not condemned."
Eddy Cue -- Apple's senior vice president for Internet Software and Services, and one of its chief negotiators -- sits squarely at the middle of the DoJ's case and was responsible for much of the email and phone traffic mentioned in the government's opening argument. He is expected to take the stand on June 13th.

The Department of Justice has settled with all of the book publishers initially accused, while Apple remains the main target of the suit.

Article Link: Justice Department Presents Opening Arguments Against Apple in E-Book Price Fixing Trial
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:35 PM   #2
Shrink
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OK, let's get this out of the way now...

Doesn't the Government have anything better to do...and so on.

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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:35 PM   #3
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This lawsuit is ridiculous. Must be funded by Amazon.

This is all very simple. Book publishers are upset with Amazon because they can't set the prices of their books (they want MORE money not less). They sign with Apple so they can set their own prices. Surprise, surprise, books are higher priced because Book publishers are allowed to set the prices to prices THEY want (higher).

Amazon should be the one sued, not Apple.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:37 PM   #4
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So, they decided to charge more than a direct competitor. And that competitor has a free app available on the devices in question, and people can shop there instead. Call the President!
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:40 PM   #5
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OK, let's get this out of the way now...

Doesn't the Government have anything better to do...and so on.

The way our government has been going lately, I'd rather they find something like this to keep them busy instead of finding new ways to erode our rights.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:41 PM   #6
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:41 PM   #7
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We should know now that price fixing is only ok when Amazon is doing it in order to run competitors out of business.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:41 PM   #8
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Whatever happened to free choice?

Consumers who don't like Apple pricing, can go to Amazon. Its that simple!
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:46 PM   #9
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I hope this story gets turned into a made-for-tv drama one day.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:48 PM   #10
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I heard rumors that AMC might do a spin-off show with this dude. Not sure if it will be as good as "Breaking Bad" though.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by SPUY767 View Post
We should know now that price fixing is only ok when Amazon is doing it in order to run competitors out of business.
Except that isn't what Amazon is doing. Amazon is selling at low/no/negative profit margins, they're hoping to make it up in volume. That isn't price fixing, the publishers still get the wholesale price of their books, Amazon sets the retail price, which is many cases is below what they bought them for from the publishers.

Now I'm not saying that what Amazon is doing is great for competitors, but it isn't illegal unlike what the publishers and Apple are accused of doing.

Amazon could be accused of abuse of monopoly power in the market hurting their competitors, but that isn't what this case is about.

For this case and this case only Amazon didn't do anything *legally* wrong, Apple probably did.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:07 PM   #12
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Whatever happened to free choice?

Consumers who don't like Apple pricing, can go to Amazon. Its that simple!
If you knew anything about this issue you would not be asking such a question.

It has nothing to do with what Apple and Amazon charge for ebook, in simple terms. It is about why Apple and Amazon [have to] now charge extra for ebooks. It is regarding the [forced] change in business model with publishers supposedly changed by Apple under Steve Job's.

It's not that simple, Steve said so therefore it must be true.... Right?
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Last edited by AppleMark; Jun 3, 2013 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:07 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Shadowpig View Post
Except that isn't what Amazon is doing. Amazon is selling at low/no/negative profit margins, they're hoping to make it up in volume. That isn't price fixing, the publishers still get the wholesale price of their books, Amazon sets the retail price, which is many cases is below what they bought them for from the publishers.

Now I'm not saying that what Amazon is doing is great for competitors, but it isn't illegal unlike what the publishers and Apple are accused of doing.

Amazon could be accused of abuse of monopoly power in the market hurting their competitors, but that isn't what this case is about.

For this case and this case only Amazon didn't do anything *legally* wrong, Apple probably did.
Amazon loses money on ebooks... This is why big corporations win, they can play chicken longer...

Amazon buys books at 10 dollars sells a 9,99 (they lose 1 cent), how can they make ANY profit from volume sales ?
They don't and since not that many companies can keep up with losing money (don't forget the cost of running the business itself, not just the buying/selling the merchandise) they just end up running the competition to the ground...

Go ask your tiny bookshops around the corner.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:09 PM   #14
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This looks like the most stupidest lawsuit. So the publishing company and Apple priced their product at a higher rate than Amazon.

Big deal. The consumer still have the choice to choose between Amazon and iBooks
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Shadowpig View Post
Amazon could be accused of abuse of monopoly power in the market hurting their competitors, but that isn't what this case is about.
But when the government's entire case pretty much boils down to 'you're charging more than Amazon,' I'd say that what Amazon is doing IS open for discussion.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:11 PM   #16
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In germany we have an official "book price fixing" mechanism.
All books have to cost the same at all retailers.
This is to prevent a big company like amazon to kill all the small book shops.

So the publisher says "i want that the book costs 14.99". And all retailes have to sell it for that price.
Only if books are damaged you are allowed to sell them at a significantly lower price (about 1 to 2).

I, as a german and proud book reader (both e and paper books), like that basically. Because it leads to the situation that you can buy books everywhere, even at the smallest shop.
And you can buy ALL books at all shops because there is a common book order mechanism for all book shops.
This is basically only possible thanks to book price fixing.

For sure for me as customer at first it sounds great having books only for 9.99 but before apple there was no german ebook market.
So i am happy to buy sometimes more (in many cases i pay less than 9.99) and have them digital also
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:15 PM   #17
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I'd still like to know why ebooks are more expensive than paper books (besides greed) it should be cheaper since there isnt any production costs or shipping, etc. WTH!
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:16 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mjaco002 View Post
This looks like the most stupidest lawsuit. So the publishing company and Apple priced their product at a higher rate than Amazon.

Big deal. The consumer still have the choice to choose between Amazon and iBooks
Not really. The deal with Apple and the publishing company meant that Amazon could no longer sell the publisher's books lower than the price the publisher set. Before, Amazon was able to sell a book at their own loss, not the publisher's. The publisher still got the price out of Amazon they wanted. It was Amazon taking the loss and the risk of losing $$$. Apple did not like this strategy and set up a new plan with the publishers which is what the DOJ is highlighting now.

----------

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Originally Posted by DJsteveSD View Post
I'd still like to know why ebooks are more expensive than paper books (besides greed) it should be cheaper since there isnt any production costs or shipping, etc. WTH!
That is a question for the publishers.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:17 PM   #19
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I'd still like to know why ebooks are more expensive than paper books (besides greed) it should be cheaper since there isnt any production costs or shipping, etc. WTH!
One part is higher pirated version count.
Other part is digital distribution is also not free.
Depending on the drm system you also have to pay fees,
and rest is greed
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:20 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by DJsteveSD View Post
I'd still like to know why ebooks are more expensive than paper books (besides greed) it should be cheaper since there isnt any production costs or shipping, etc. WTH!
Here's the history:

http://blog.nathanbransford.com/2011...more-than.html

Short version: You're often not paying full price for those hardcovers.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by pixelpro View Post
Whatever happened to free choice?

Consumers who don't like Apple pricing, can go to Amazon. Its that simple!
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Originally Posted by SPUY767 View Post
We should know now that price fixing is only ok when Amazon is doing it in order to run competitors out of business.
I think your point is valid and al though i am not 100% certain of the facts - i think the issue here is that the agencies forced amazon to do it a certain way OR not get the books - and this may or may not have happened if APPLE was not in the picture.

One could argue that Amazon is free to buy the books at whatever point and still sell them at a loss to gather other business - consumer wins here for sure - BUT competitors can not compete - and that should be investigated by the DOJ as well!

Again, Apple comes in and FROM WHAT was entered as exhibits seems to sway the publishers to charge what apple thinks they should charge to make sure APPLE gets it ridiculous 30% and in some cases seems to make the publishers lose money - lol - but with the WAY apple handled it forced the publishers to alter the way IT SELLS again i repeat the DEAL IN WHICH AMAZON CAN BUY BOOKS is under new terms consistent in the way apple wanted them to do it.


At least thats how i see it - I am not a lawyer and don't claim to be one - but my layperson understanding points to me this picture. Lets see what apple has to say - but bottom line its all corporations and the only interest of corporations is MONEY not about the customer!

Last edited by holmstockd; Jun 3, 2013 at 04:27 PM. Reason: SPELLING - which sucks! lol
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:21 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Shadowpig View Post
Except that isn't what Amazon is doing. Amazon is selling at low/no/negative profit margins, they're hoping to make it up in volume. That isn't price fixing, the publishers still get the wholesale price of their books, Amazon sets the retail price, which is many cases is below what they bought them for from the publishers.

Now I'm not saying that what Amazon is doing is great for competitors, but it isn't illegal unlike what the publishers and Apple are accused of doing.

Amazon could be accused of abuse of monopoly power in the market hurting their competitors, but that isn't what this case is about.

For this case and this case only Amazon didn't do anything *legally* wrong, Apple probably did.
If you're making a negative profit, volume only makes things worse.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:21 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by JarJarThomas View Post
One part is higher pirated version count.
Other part is digital distribution is also not free.
Depending on the drm system you also have to pay fees,
and rest is greed
I'm not disagreeing with the reasons you listed, but it makes it look like a library is brick and motor torrent store. This is 90% greed if not more.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:22 PM   #24
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I'd still like to know why ebooks are more expensive than paper books (besides greed) it should be cheaper since there isnt any production costs or shipping, etc. WTH!
They never used to be....

In court papers, it is written: "Apple wanted to sell ebooks to the public, but did not want to compete against the low prices Amazon was setting.

"Apple knew that the major publishers also disliked Amazon's low prices and saw Apple's potential entry as a pathway to higher retail prices industry-wide."


Its purpose was to force Amazon to raise ebooks to the $9.99 price it had set for the most popular ebook titles because that was substantially below their hardcover prices, according to the government.

This arrangement guaranteed Apple a 30% commission on each ebook it sold.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:23 PM   #25
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D-oh-J

The DOJ has been rendered irrelevant. They should just show Holder the door and close up shop.
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