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Old Jun 3, 2013, 05:42 PM   #1
philz4life
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Why is the iMac sealed off?

Except for the RAM in the 27 inch, Apple sealed off the iMac and retina MacBook Pro, making them almost impossible to repair or upgrade. This makes some sense in the portable rMBP, but the iMac is a desktop. Couldn't apple have made it 1/4 inch thicker so that it could be easily opened? It's ridiculous. I love the good old days where getting inside your Mac took a standard screwdriver and nothing else. Even the previous generation iMac and MBP were still relatively easy to get into.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 07:19 PM   #2
joe-h2o
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It's easy to open now.

Takes about 5 minutes and a plastic tool (or a guitar pick).

The internal layout is also better than the old one, making it easier to do a drive swap.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 10:40 PM   #3
old-wiz
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Originally Posted by joe-h2o View Post
It's easy to open now.

Takes about 5 minutes and a plastic tool (or a guitar pick).

The internal layout is also better than the old one, making it easier to do a drive swap.
iFixit says you need a heat gun as well as the guitar pick - you have to unglue the top. putting it back together requires re-glue
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 11:54 PM   #4
AppleNewton
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Dont use a heatgun on the imac, thats just a bad idea period.
a large plastic tool to remove the adhesive is all that is really needed.
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 01:08 AM   #5
joe-h2o
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Originally Posted by old-wiz View Post
iFixit says you need a heat gun as well as the guitar pick - you have to unglue the top. putting it back together requires re-glue
iFixit is not correct.

You absolutely do not need a heat gun under any circumstances. iFixit is a useful resource, but they've had a massive stick up their ass over Apple's recent design decisions (especially regarding using adhesives), and on this point they are 100% wrong.

All you need to open a 2012 iMac is a thin plastic tool - either a guitar pick, or a pizza cutter. Or, if you go on ebay and want to spend the cash, you can get the official tool that Apple sends to their authorised repair shops - a small plastic cutting wheel.

At no point anywhere in Apple's service manual for the iMac does it mention the need for a heat gun.
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 02:04 PM   #6
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good to know, thanks!
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 02:51 PM   #7
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of course what apple want you to do is spend a stupid amount of money with them for things you COULD do yourself for a 10th the price,

and god forbid you want to replace a faulty drive 4 or 5 years down the line, you should have binned that fossil and bought a new one by then !!

The iMac, and all the other mac products, are getting sealed to drive revenue up, there can be no other reason. Apple want the products to be disposable, to keep you going back and buying slight upgrades every three years
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 05:06 PM   #8
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are getting sealed to drive revenue up, there can be no other reason.
It's not revenue at all, macs will never be a big earner for Apple, but its Apples design ethos that has existed since pretty much the start. Form over function.

There is no better device in the world to look at, or hold or use for the most part than an Apple one. Macs will now continue to get thinner and thinner.
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 03:56 AM   #9
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It's not revenue at all, macs will never be a big earner for Apple, but its Apples design ethos that has existed since pretty much the start. Form over function.

There is no better device in the world to look at, or hold or use for the most part than an Apple one. Macs will now continue to get thinner and thinner.
You can , have both form and function if your a good Designer, there is NO reason iMacs couldn't have easily accessible doors for both RAM and HDD replacements (in fact the 27inch DOES have a door for RAM) without sacrificing the FORM at all.

I just think Mr Ive is incompetent as a technical designer, he should be making arty fountains or something instead of computer cases
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 08:34 AM   #10
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I tend to agree. When you look at it, the Dell XPS One 27 is not an ugly design.



And look at what parts are *user* upgradeable / replaceble. This is the contents from one of the User Manuals:

Before You Begin
After Working Inside Your Computer
Technical Overview
Removing the Back Cover
Replacing the Back Cover
Removing the Converter Board
Replacing the Converter Board
Removing the Optical Drive
Replacing the Optical Drive
Removing the System-Board Shield
Replacing the System-Board Shield
Removing the Power-Supply Unit
Replacing the Power-Supply Unit
Removing the Memory Module(s)
Replacing the Memory Module(s)
Removing the Coin-Cell Battery
Replacing the Coin-Cell Battery
Removing the Stand
Replacing the Stand
Removing the Hard Drive
Replacing the Hard Drive
Removing the Hard-Drive Cage
Replacing the Hard-Drive Cage
Removing the Power-Supply Fan
Replacing the Power-Supply Fan
Removing the TV-Tuner Mini-Card
Replacing the TV-Tuner Mini-Card
Removing the Wireless Mini-Card
Replacing the Wireless Mini-Card
Removing the mSATA Mini-Card
Replacing the mSATA Mini-Card
Removing the Processor Heat-Sink Fan
Replacing the Processor Heat-Sink Fan
Removing the Processor Heat-Sink
Removing the Processor
Replacing the Processor
Removing the Trim Cover
Replacing the Trim Cover
Removing the I/O Panel
Replacing the I/O Panel
Removing the Inner Frame
Replacing the Inner Frame
Removing the I/O- Board
Replacing the I/O Board
Removing the TV-In Port
Replacing the TV-In Port
Removing the Infrared-Emitter Port
Replacing the Infrared-Emitter Port
Removing the System Board
Replacing the System Board
Removing the Speakers
Replacing the Speakers
Removing the Power-Button Assembly
Replacing the Power-Button Assembly
Removing the Side I/O Board
Replacing the Side-I/O Board
Removing the Middle Cover
Replacing the Middle Cover
Removing the Display Panel
Replacing the Display Panel
Removing the Camera Module
Replacing the Camera Module
Removing the Microphone Modules
Replacing the Microphone Modules
Removing the Infrared(IR) Module
Replacing the Infrared(IR) Module
Removing the Antenna Module(s)
Replacing the Antenna Module(s)
System Setup
Flashing the BIOS

And no tape-cutting in sight!

It would be hard to argue that the new iMac is not form over function. I mean what was wrong with magnets to attach the screen for goodness sake???
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 09:19 AM   #11
toondw
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But if we could do all of above.....it would be a PC!
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 01:44 PM   #12
Chippy99
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Angry

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Originally Posted by toondw View Post
But if we could do all of above.....it would be a PC!
No, it would just have what's best about a PC. It would still be a Mac and still run OS X.

I really don't need all of the above, but being able to upgrade a disk or even (in the case of the 21") to be able to add some ram is surely not too much to ask.

It's like the iPad has been so successful, Apple are trying to make 27" desktop iPads. They've gone too far imho.

That said, I am still going to buy one :-)

I just wish I didn't have to either void the warranty or pay Apple $$$$$ for a 512GB SSD
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 03:35 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Chippy99 View Post
No, it would just have what's best about a PC. It would still be a Mac and still run OS X.

I really don't need all of the above, but being able to upgrade a disk or even (in the case of the 21") to be able to add some ram is surely not too much to ask.

It's like the iPad has been so successful, Apple are trying to make 27" desktop iPads. They've gone too far imho.

That said, I am still going to buy one :-)

I just wish I didn't have to either void the warranty or pay Apple $$$$$ for a 512GB SSD
The reality is most MAC users will never upgrade their Macs, they will just buy new ones. Trap door expansions are ugly and lets be honest, you'd feel ripped off if your Mac looked like that Dell, and to be honest if its what your after, buy a PC. Heck why have an all in one, get a desktop as all-in-ones are too limited in their upgradability.
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 08:25 PM   #14
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From the very core design and naming, it's been obvious. All-in-one PC is all about putting the components together in a compact, singular chassis.

What's so hard to understand? It has to be limited and less upgradeable than real desktop solution. Even something like HP Z1 will be cumbersome and limited when it comes to upgrades. OEM would rather you buy the new machine instead of replace a partial component. It's just how the economy works with this kind of product.

The MacPro is the only real desktop solution provided by Apple. It's expensive, it's outdated, deserted and we can only hope Apple would do something about it. Otherwise, all you can do is turn your head elsewhere and get a desktop PC.

Asking iMac to be completely user accessible is like asking why a hotdog is called a hotdog? How about deal with it and move on?
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 10:00 PM   #15
thedeske
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Asking iMac to be completely user accessible is like asking why a hotdog is called a hotdog? How about deal with it and move on?
Agree - I think people are confused. Since 09 the iMac blurred the category with very good performance and why can't I have it the way I want it? Apple did this, Apple did that, they suck.
Ok, fine. Meanwhile...
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Old Jun 6, 2013, 01:59 AM   #16
Lancer
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Originally Posted by Chippy99 View Post
I tend to agree. When you look at it, the Dell XPS One 27 is not an ugly design.
That's down to personal taste.

Quote:
It would be hard to argue that the new iMac is not form over function. I mean what was wrong with magnets to attach the screen for goodness sake???
I agree, but I bet the majority of PC users will never replace any of those items and would just take it in to be repaired any way. So it might help the tech save a few minutes taking it apart.
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Old Jun 6, 2013, 10:15 AM   #17
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The reality is most MAC users will never upgrade their Macs, they will just buy new ones. Trap door expansions are ugly and lets be honest, you'd feel ripped off if your Mac looked like that Dell, and to be honest if its what your after, buy a PC. Heck why have an all in one, get a desktop as all-in-ones are too limited in their upgradability.
First of all the closed-system approach only serves Apple, but definitely not the customer, as it's just a way to introduce planned obsolescence. Apple did this to retain the 3 year upgrade cycle of previous years, as the improvements in CPU performance don't justify a new computer for most people. Adding more RAM could get thise older machines running for another 2 years in many cases. Swapping those outdated magnetic discs for an SSD adds even more performance to them.

And how could a trap door ruin the looks? It's a computer, not jewelry. Function should always dominate form, otherwise it's bad design.
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Old Jun 6, 2013, 10:19 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Chippy99 View Post
No, it would just have what's best about a PC. It would still be a Mac and still run OS X.

I really don't need all of the above, but being able to upgrade a disk or even (in the case of the 21") to be able to add some ram is surely not too much to ask.

It's like the iPad has been so successful, Apple are trying to make 27" desktop iPads. They've gone too far imho.

That said, I am still going to buy one :-)

I just wish I didn't have to either void the warranty or pay Apple $$$$$ for a 512GB SSD
You do realize that you can run two thunderbolt drives, that have the same speed as internal drives and can be booted from right? And if you want to change them out, just pop in a different drive.
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Old Jun 6, 2013, 10:29 AM   #19
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You do realize that you can run two thunderbolt drives, that have the same speed as internal drives and can be booted from right? And if you want to change them out, just pop in a different drive.
But what's the point of an AIO if you have to attach external storage to it to make it fast ? And you can't add an external DIMM.
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Old Jun 6, 2013, 11:08 AM   #20
Chippy99
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Originally Posted by iSayuSay View Post
From the very core design and naming, it's been obvious. All-in-one PC is all about putting the components together in a compact, singular chassis.

What's so hard to understand? It has to be limited and less upgradeable than real desktop solution.
I think you have argued yourself into a corner there mate.

Why did you not say "It has to be limited and non upgradeable". Your very statement tells us that some degree of upgradeability would be reasonable.

No-one is arguing that a Mac should be a bag of interchangeable bits. But in the case of the 21", it is not upgradeabe AT ALL. That is imho a compromise too far.

----------

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And how could a trap door ruin the looks? It's a computer, not jewelry. Function should always dominate form, otherwise it's bad design.
Not sure I would go that far. But equally, I do not accept that a trap door ON THE BACK of the machine would ruin its looks! To say that is a completely ridiculous idea imho. Again, only my opinion, but imho I think the lack of upgradeability has very very little to do with aesthetic considerations. It's about planned obscolecence and forcing people to spend more sooner. If that wasn't the agenda, we'd see much more upgradeability in the design I think.
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Old Jun 6, 2013, 12:47 PM   #21
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imho the 21 inch was designed poorly. the reason there is no door on the back to access the ram is because its on the other side of the logic board. so its not even a matter of just opening it up, but completely breaking down the entire thing to the point of removing the logic board. To have to do this is plain stupid. its not like that on the 27 and shouldnt be like that on the 21.

also the stand change was ridiculous. they gained absolutely nothing from making it non removable.
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Old Jun 6, 2013, 02:32 PM   #22
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Old Jun 6, 2013, 04:14 PM   #23
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Still, their cunning plan works. This afternoon I ordered a 27" iMac with i7, 256GB SSD and GTX 680MX... all because I know I won't be able to upgrade the bloody thing. They have turned a possible 1,500 order into a 2,200 order. Well done Apple!

At least I didn't have to pay their ridiculous prices for more ram!
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Old Jun 6, 2013, 04:17 PM   #24
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Old Jun 6, 2013, 05:18 PM   #25
PJM82
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First of all the closed-system approach only serves Apple, but definitely not the customer, as it's just a way to introduce planned obsolescence. Apple did this to retain the 3 year upgrade cycle of previous years, as the improvements in CPU performance don't justify a new computer for most people. Adding more RAM could get thise older machines running for another 2 years in many cases. Swapping those outdated magnetic discs for an SSD adds even more performance to them.

And how could a trap door ruin the looks? It's a computer, not jewelry. Function should always dominate form, otherwise it's bad design.
Ahh you've confused opinion with fact. Easily done.
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