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Old Jun 4, 2013, 12:47 PM   #1
peejack
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OWC Delivery Problems

No sure if this is right section, please move if it isn't.

I recently had my first experience of OWC (www.macsales.com) and have to sat I am FAR from impressed.

I have read a whole bunch of unhappy people from this forum but thought I would give them a go.

I live in the UK and ordered en Envoy Pro and a USB 3.0 Hub.

When ordering it came up with First Class international post which I selected and it advised me it could take 'up to 2 weeks' ... fair enough it was the cheapest option so I went for that.

I made my order on the 15th May 2013, and I still have not received it.

Anyway I contacted them via the live chat today and I thought I should include the chat here:

--

OWC Kat: [11:08:03 AM] Hello XXXXXX, thanks for contacting OWC Sales & Customer Service. This is OWC Kat. How may I assist you?

ME: [11:08:03 AM] Hi, I still have not received this order. I ordered nearly 3 weeks ago. I have contacted you and you have said to wait until the 16th June. I have been thinking about this and feel this is pretty unfair. When I ordered the item it said up to 2 weeks for delivery. I have waited nearly 3 and to be honest and fed up of waiting now. I would like a full refund. If it does ever turn up I will refuse delivery. Please can you arrange this.

OWC Kat: [11:08:35 AM] Thank you for contacting OWC. Please hold for just a moment while I look into this order for you.

ME: [11:08:41 AM] thank you.

OWC Kat: [11:14:10 AM] Unfortunately, the Postal Service shipping methods can take a longer due to customs. You are more than welcome to refuse the package, I can set up the RMA for refund right now for you. You will be billed for return shipping.

ME: [11:14:46 AM] what? i don;t get it

[11:15:34 AM] i want a refund because the item has not turned up in the time frame you gave me when i ordered, what good will setting up an RMA do I don't have anything to return

OWC Kat: [11:16:15 AM] The RMA will allow you to get your refund once the package is returned to us.

ME: [11:16:29 AM] i haven't got the package!!!!

[11:16:43 AM] this is my point

OWC Kat: [11:16:51 AM] Correct, once you refuse the package, it will be returned to us, and then we can process the refund for you.

ME: [11:18:04 AM] you not seeing what I am saying the problem is I have waited nearly 3 weeks for this item and it isn't here, im not prepared to wait any longer as I was advised up to 2 weeks when I placed the order. So refund me now and IF it turns up i'll refuse it.

[11:18:12 AM] Im not waiting any longer, if you won't refund me I will contact my bank, and ask for a chargeback, so either do this for me or pass me to your manager, OR repeat what you have already said and I will contact my bank.

OWC Kat: [11:21:16 AM] Unfortunately, we cannot refund you until we receive a product back. We will definitely refund you the money once that product is received. The method of shipping you chose does state on our check out page that it can take longer to receive a package than FedEx or UPS. You will not be charged any restocking fees once the product is returned, however we cannot refund you unless we receive the product here at OWC.

ME: [11:22:42 AM] what the hell are you on about? you obviously are not listening to what I am saying. Ok. I will contact my bank. I will also be making a post about this on MacRumours.com with a copy of this chat. Thanks for not helping me at all. I will NOT be using OWC again.

[11:23:48 AM] nothing else to say?

[11:24:08 AM] ok goodbye thanks for the 'service'.

---

..and after waiting that the last I heard and was disconnected.

I know one guy from OWC hangs around so perhaps he will reply, maybe not.

Thanks.

[Update] - Changed title.

Last edited by peejack; Jun 7, 2013 at 05:18 AM. Reason: Changed title.
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 01:06 PM   #2
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Once an item is shipped the seller has no control over how long it takes to arrive. I've shipped items to Europe that have arrived in under a week and ones that took over 3 months.

Demanding a refund because an item hasn't arrived in 3 weeks is simply illogical. Deduct the weekends and your item, which can take 14-30 business days in most cases, if it were shipped as soon as the day after you ordered, is only at the 14 day mark right now.

There's no "terrible customer service" here to complain about.
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 01:09 PM   #3
peejack
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Originally Posted by cocacolakid View Post
Once an item is shipped the seller has no control over how long it takes to arrive. I've shipped items to Europe that have arrived in under a week and ones that took over 3 months.

Demanding a refund because an item hasn't arrived in 3 weeks is simply illogical. Deduct the weekends and your item, which can take 14-30 business days in most cases, if it were shipped as soon as the day after you ordered, is only at the 14 day mark right now.

There's no "terrible customer service" here to complain about.
No? I beg to differ.

Then why does the assistant carry on like a robot telling me she has set up Rma when I haven't received the item.

When I ordered it said up 2 weeks if that wasn't the case then why say it?
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 01:14 PM   #4
cocacolakid
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You've never ordered anything from another country before?

No business is giving you a refund without returning the product first. Go down to your local market and tell them you don't like the product you paid for and want a refund without returning said product. See what happens.

OWC has an excellent track record. Their Better Business Bureau and online ratings are stellar.

Your issue is you're not happy with the speed of the post, well, get in line. And if your package was stopped for inspection by UK Customs, it will be delayed further. And there is no tracking for First Class International Post, so no way to know where in the system the package is. If you wanted a tracking number to know that you would have had to pay for International Priority Mail which starts around $24 U.S. for a tiny package. The next size up is $59.99, go look at the USPS.com website, those are actual prices for flat rate International Priority Mail. First Class is cheaper but takes far longer. And it has nothing to do with OWC (or any seller).
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 01:19 PM   #5
chrfr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peejack View Post
When ordering it came up with First Class international post which I selected and it advised me it could take 'up to 2 weeks' ... fair enough it was the cheapest option so I went for that.
Your issue is with the respective Postal services in the US and your country as well as Customs, not with OWC. First class mail, even domestically in the US, has no time guarantee. If you'd wanted this package sooner, you ought to have chosen a faster guaranteed service.
It's absolutely reasonable for a vendor to withhold a refund until they have received a returned product.
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 01:20 PM   #6
peejack
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Originally Posted by cocacolakid View Post
You've never ordered anything from another country before?

No business is giving you a refund without returning the product first. Go down to your local market and tell them you don't like the product you paid for and want a refund without returning said product. See what happens.

OWC has an excellent track record. Their Better Business Bureau and online ratings are stellar.

Your issue is you're not happy with the speed of the post, well, get in line. And if your package was stopped for inspection by UK Customs, it will be delayed further. And there is no tracking for First Class International Post, so no way to know where in the system the package is. If you wanted a tracking number to know that you would have had to pay for International Priority Mail which starts around $24 U.S. for a tiny package. The next size up is $59.99, go look at the USPS.com website, those are actual prices for flat rate International Priority Mail. First Class is cheaper but takes far longer. And it has nothing to do with OWC (or any seller).
So how long do I wait and what if it never turns up?
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 01:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by peejack View Post
So how long do I wait and what if it never turns up?
probably 2-3 months unless the seller gets some notification from the postal that package was lost (unlikely).

You can't expect the seller to issue a refund before the product is returned and received. Otherwise people would demand refunds for products they have in hand and are just trying to scheme the system.
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 01:33 PM   #8
peejack
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Originally Posted by old-wiz View Post
probably 2-3 months unless the seller gets some notification from the postal that package was lost (unlikely).

You can't expect the seller to issue a refund before the product is returned and received. Otherwise people would demand refunds for products they have in hand and are just trying to scheme the system.
2-3 months are you ****tin me? You would be happy with that?

----------

And to not reply then disconnect you think doesn't rate as bad customer service?
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 01:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by peejack View Post
2-3 months are you ****tin me? You would be happy with that?

----------

And to not reply then disconnect you think doesn't rate as bad customer service?
No I wouldn't be happy, but I was surely understand the circumstances around my order before ordering. Customs, mode of delivery, etc.

Seriously dude, reread the conversation. You were less than pleasant to talk to.
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 01:54 PM   #10
peejack
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How was I not pleasant ? Annoyed yes because of the advice that was given when I ordered and the lack of care from them. Then when I complained this robot lady didn't seem to understand what I was saying then ignored me and disappeared!
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 02:03 PM   #11
dejo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peejack View Post
How was I not pleasant ?
For example:
Quote:
ME: [11:22:42 AM] what the hell are you on about?
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 02:03 PM   #12
tgi
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How about you wait it out. We all know you will not refuse the package once it arrives because that would just be idiotic.

When shippers give you time frames for deliveries, they are just estimates. Numerous factors can cause a delay, none of which is the control of the shipper.
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 02:09 PM   #13
dan1eln1el5en
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I'm sorry but OWC is doing nothing wrong here.

The issue is that you might have tried to order, previously, in UK or EU, where you ship and postal service to postal service, no in-betweeners.
Due to the "Internal Market" in the EU, everything from anywhere outside EU will have to go through customs.

Customs will not tell you they got your package, customs might want to ask you 12.5% import tax (of an estimated price, not the real price, but a price custom service find suitable).

What you could do is ask for a tracking number, then you can see where the package is and if it's customs, it can take a day it can take weeks.

First Mac I bought, via eBay from the states to Sweden, took 2 months and we had to almost double the price of it, since customs estimated it was worth more than what I had paid on eBay.

so, there you go, shop from inside EU or expect delivery delay, which the shipper can't do anything about.

and you might find it unfair, but before 1994 (or sometime aroudn there) there was customs in between the EU member states and it was same deal within the EU....so it's an improvement at least...
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 02:18 PM   #14
peejack
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Ok thanks for the sensible replies. Ill handle this off here. Lesson learned.
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 02:25 PM   #15
dmchapman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peejack View Post

I am currently considering what to do and will be contacting my bank etc...

I thought this was worthy of a post to alert anyone thinking of ordering from this terrible company.

I know one guy from OWC hangs around so perhaps he will reply, maybe not.

I will be taking further action with this company and needless to say NEVER ordering from them again.

Thanks.
Doesn't sound like a problem with the supplier TBH (yet anyway).

I assume it's valued at over 15 quid? If so, it'll likely get held up at customs and you'll have to pay VAT (20%) and possibly duty (see ****************fmW8k )

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Old Jun 4, 2013, 03:30 PM   #16
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You have placed the blame on the wrong people. OWC is not to blame. I sell products around the world on Ebay and run into the same issues. Canada Post promises to deliver a package in 2 weeks time as an example. Which in almost every case can be done by them if not held up by Customs. Since terrorism has become so large in the world today, Customs takes no chances. They can hold the package as long as they want and you can do nothing about it as the seller or purchaser. Almost all delays are caused by Customs. Before 9/11, I could mail a package to anywhere in the world and have it delivered within a week. Now I have a simple package go to the US and I have had it take 3 & 4 weeks. Just because Customs decided to hold it.

As long as the seller is willing to continue communicating, then there should be no issue. It is called Customer Service. If you are in a hurry for something to arrive, then you may as well go and buy it at a brick & mortar. I also buy on the net and have had long delays in receiving my items. OWC has a process for returns they must follow. Don't follow it and all of a sudden inventories are out of whack. I would have dealt with you differently, but still would not have refunded you without receiving the item back or verifying with the postal services that the package was lost.

I know you may not like my response, but that is the reality of the situation.
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Old Jun 4, 2013, 07:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peejack View Post
And to not reply then disconnect you think doesn't rate as bad customer service?
Customer service reps are people too, they don't have to sit there and take abuse and insults. They explained the situation, you refused to accept their offer to accept the return after you receive it, there's nothing else to talk about. They offered you a refund. You said no and then threatened to try a chargeback with your credit card and then to publicly smear them, which you then did. What did you expect them to say when you made those threats?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by firedept View Post
You have placed the blame on the wrong people. OWC is not to blame. I sell products around the world on Ebay and run into the same issues. Canada Post promises to deliver a package in 2 weeks time as an example. Which in almost every case can be done by them if not held up by Customs. Since terrorism has become so large in the world today, Customs takes no chances. They can hold the package as long as they want and you can do nothing about it as the seller or purchaser. Almost all delays are caused by Customs. Before 9/11, I could mail a package to anywhere in the world and have it delivered within a week. Now I have a simple package go to the US and I have had it take 3 & 4 weeks. Just because Customs decided to hold it.
Exactly. I stopped offering international shipping on eBay because eBay decided their policy is if it hasn't arrived in 30 days the buyer gets a refund, which means I just gave away the item that too often arrives after 30 days, and it cost me the eBay and Paypal fees, plus shipping, on top of eating the cost of the product. At the same time, I've had items go to France and the UK and arrive in 3-4 days while items to Canada sometimes take over 30 days. There is no rhyme or reason to it, and without a tracking number, which is not available, there is no way to know how close an item is to arriving.
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Last edited by dejo; Jun 4, 2013 at 07:43 PM. Reason: fixed quote.
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 12:20 AM   #18
tengtengvn
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Originally Posted by peejack View Post
How was I not pleasant ? Annoyed yes because of the advice that was given when I ordered and the lack of care from them. Then when I complained this robot lady didn't seem to understand what I was saying then ignored me and disappeared!
Yep... I would do the same when dealing with someone unreasonable and keep whining about it.
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 01:48 AM   #19
Jedi Master
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Chill dude, paid what ever cancelation fees to the and out that too

Quote:
Originally Posted by peejack View Post
No sure if this is right section, please move if it isn't.

I recently had my first experience of OWC (www.macsales.com) and have to sat I am FAR from impressed.

I have read a whole bunch of unhappy people from this forum but thought I would give them a go.

I live in the UK and ordered en Envoy Pro and a USB 3.0 Hub.

When ordering it came up with First Class international post which I selected and it advised me it could take 'up to 2 weeks' ... fair enough it was the cheapest option so I went for that.

I made my order on the 15th May 2013, and I still have not received it.

Anyway I contacted them via the live chat today and I thought I should include the chat here:

--

OWC Kat: [11:08:03 AM] Hello XXXXXX, thanks for contacting OWC Sales & Customer Service. This is OWC Kat. How may I assist you?

ME: [11:08:03 AM] Hi, I still have not received this order. I ordered nearly 3 weeks ago. I have contacted you and you have said to wait until the 16th June. I have been thinking about this and feel this is pretty unfair. When I ordered the item it said up to 2 weeks for delivery. I have waited nearly 3 and to be honest and fed up of waiting now. I would like a full refund. If it does ever turn up I will refuse delivery. Please can you arrange this.

OWC Kat: [11:08:35 AM] Thank you for contacting OWC. Please hold for just a moment while I look into this order for you.

ME: [11:08:41 AM] thank you.

OWC Kat: [11:14:10 AM] Unfortunately, the Postal Service shipping methods can take a longer due to customs. You are more than welcome to refuse the package, I can set up the RMA for refund right now for you. You will be billed for return shipping.

ME: [11:14:46 AM] what? i don;t get it

[11:15:34 AM] i want a refund because the item has not turned up in the time frame you gave me when i ordered, what good will setting up an RMA do I don't have anything to return

OWC Kat: [11:16:15 AM] The RMA will allow you to get your refund once the package is returned to us.

ME: [11:16:29 AM] i haven't got the package!!!!

[11:16:43 AM] this is my point

OWC Kat: [11:16:51 AM] Correct, once you refuse the package, it will be returned to us, and then we can process the refund for you.

ME: [11:18:04 AM] you not seeing what I am saying the problem is I have waited nearly 3 weeks for this item and it isn't here, im not prepared to wait any longer as I was advised up to 2 weeks when I placed the order. So refund me now and IF it turns up i'll refuse it.

[11:18:12 AM] Im not waiting any longer, if you won't refund me I will contact my bank, and ask for a chargeback, so either do this for me or pass me to your manager, OR repeat what you have already said and I will contact my bank.

OWC Kat: [11:21:16 AM] Unfortunately, we cannot refund you until we receive a product back. We will definitely refund you the money once that product is received. The method of shipping you chose does state on our check out page that it can take longer to receive a package than FedEx or UPS. You will not be charged any restocking fees once the product is returned, however we cannot refund you unless we receive the product here at OWC.

ME: [11:22:42 AM] what the hell are you on about? you obviously are not listening to what I am saying. Ok. I will contact my bank. I will also be making a post about this on MacRumours.com with a copy of this chat. Thanks for not helping me at all. I will NOT be using OWC again.

[11:23:48 AM] nothing else to say?

[11:24:08 AM] ok goodbye thanks for the 'service'.

---

..and after waiting that the last I heard and was disconnected.

I am currently considering what to do and will be contacting my bank etc...

I thought this was worthy of a post to alert anyone thinking of ordering from this terrible company.

I know one guy from OWC hangs around so perhaps he will reply, maybe not.

I will be taking further action with this company and needless to say NEVER ordering from them again.

Thanks.
Chill dude, paid what ever cancelation fees to the and out that too...

Good Day

Last edited by maflynn; Jun 5, 2013 at 06:56 AM. Reason: Removed name calling
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 02:03 AM   #20
drsox
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There are OWC products available in the UK, you just have to look for them.
Try : http://www.allmacshop.co.uk/feature/..._SSD_Upgrades/

If you want to be really persistent, then there are also outlets in Germany who will send to the UK. Much easier than dealing transatlantic. You will pay more but the postage will be less (and less hassle).
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 07:40 AM   #21
webcity
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I'm kinda with both sides here...

OP, you do need to chill out a bit. I'd be cheesed off as well but you do have to understand that international deliveries can be held up by all sorts of things as has already been said.

However, on the flip side, in the UK, it is the sellers responsibility to ensure that a customer received what they pay for. If the seller chooses to offer a postal service that's not tracked, then it's on the sellers head if the parcel doesn't arrive. In the OP's situation, it appears OWC are saying the exact opposite (i.e. if the parcel gets lost and doesn't arrive, OWC will refuse to refund).

Doesn't sound fair to me.
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 07:46 AM   #22
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I do understand international deliveries take longer and that's fine, but I feel that now it is coming on for 3 weeks they should be looking to do something about it rather than just telling me they will refund it 'when they receive it back' That's not helping my position or answering my question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by webcity View Post
I'm kinda with both sides here...

However, on the flip side, in the UK, it is the sellers responsibility to ensure that a customer received what they pay for. If the seller chooses to offer a postal service that's not tracked, then it's on the sellers head if the parcel doesn't arrive. In the OP's situation, it appears OWC are saying the exact opposite (i.e. if the parcel gets lost and doesn't arrive, OWC will refuse to refund).

Doesn't sound fair to me.
Exactly. This is what I am trying to say, and something that she DID NOT answer when I speaking to her. She just said about sending it back when I have received or refusing it, NOTHING about the item actually not being with me or what they will do if it doesn't arrive.

They chose to offer a method of shipment that was non trackable and it was the cheapest so of course I selected that, but as you correctly say it's the sellers responsibility to be responsible for the package UNTIL it arrives with me and as yet it hasn't. The reason I got cheesed off with them is they were not answering what I was asking.
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 08:04 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by webcity View Post

However, on the flip side, in the UK, it is the sellers responsibility to ensure that a customer received what they pay for. If the seller chooses to offer a postal service that's not tracked, then it's on the sellers head if the parcel doesn't arrive. In the OP's situation, it appears OWC are saying the exact opposite (i.e. if the parcel gets lost and doesn't arrive, OWC will refuse to refund).
Don't think UK law applies as the order was taken on a US website.
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 08:06 AM   #24
peejack
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Don't think UK law applies as the order was taken on a US website.
Regardless. If the item doesn't turn up it's THEIR fault and problem. Not mine.
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Old Jun 5, 2013, 08:08 AM   #25
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No company is perfect, including OWC. However, they provide excellent service in most cases. This is a case of the customer not checking all the facts before ordering and not understanding who is responsible for shipment of items ordered. OWC is not responsible once the shipper picks up the items ordered. The thread title is false and misleading, as OWC's customer service in this situation is quite appropriate.
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