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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:07 AM   #1
Simplybetter
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The Mac Pro Criticism

Today with the unveiling of the new 2013 Mac Pro, a whole wave of criticism has come from this site which to say the least is detestable.

Even without any details people jumped to the conclusion that it can not be opened, can't be upgraded and that it is made of plastic. All of which is not true

Such criticism should only be coming from a cheesy Windows 8 supporter who is pissed off about no longer having a start button, not from the MacRumors community. It has become increasingly hard to see who supports the Mac Pro anymore on this once great community.

What has been revealed from Apple with the new Mac Pro has revolutionized the entire personal and professional computer market. It's design is unlike any other computer on the market. The new Mac Pro has changed how we view computer form factors and computer power vs. size.

It is quite obvious that the new Mac Pro will have a new Intel Ivy Bridge E5 2600 v2 12 core processor as shown in leaked roadmaps. At a minimum for people who hate the look of the Mac Pro this will provide Hackintosh users with power management for the newest generation Intel chips.

For those who want expandability with graphics cards, just like with the Saphire HD 7950, there will be alternative options for the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro is not closed.

Apple has equipped the Mac Pro with 6 of the fastest memory I/O's in the world and still complaints about hard drive expandability are excessive. Every major manufacture of external hard drives manufactures Thunderbolt devices. The reason for this is because the future is on the cloud, not on your hard drive.

This computer is called a "Pro" for a reason, and it's not because it's built for every poor cretin on this site who owns an iPhone. In fact most of the people on here who say they wouldn't buy it now wouldn't buy a new mac pro in the old form factor simply because it costs too much.

Are you scared of change? Scared of innovation? Scared of computers that are not box shaped? Or are you just so caught up in your own view of the world that you fail to see what is truly in front of you? Apple is showing you what you want, that's their job, you just don't know it yet.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:16 AM   #2
comatory
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i think once the price is revealed and someone gets to test the machine (benchmarks), it will feel more approachable and I think it will find its target audience. i also think that GPUs will be expandable to some degree (probably via Apple only) and if they add Nvidia chip, it might get a lot of support.

so far, the price will be a deal breaker. if this will be more expensive than current Mac Pro's, I think it will be hard to swallow for most of the people (especially the base model that will probably only carry 4-core Xeon, 8-16GB RAM and 256GB SSD).

it reminds me a lot of G4 Cube. and not just because of the "core" cooling but because of how people will percept it. (read original review here: http://archive.arstechnica.com/revie...g4-cube-1.html)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-PB86oy044
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:18 AM   #3
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I'm inclined to agree. Reminds me of the folks who thought the 2012 iMac would be a blazing inferno just because it was thinner.

As Apple said, they intend on keeping this design around for another ten years, so it had to be extremely (or "shockingly") forward-looking in design and philosophy.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:18 AM   #4
Wardenski
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Originally Posted by Simplybetter View Post
Are you scared of change? Scared of innovation? Scared of computers that are not box shaped? Or are you just so caught up in your own view of the world that you fail to see what is truly in front of you? Apple is showing you what you want, that's their job, you just don't know it yet.
Not sure if trolling...

Innovation is nice but it doesn't mean every innovation is useful for everyone.

Heard of Microsofts recent innovation regarding used games?
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:19 AM   #5
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You are definitely new around these parts. Hello.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:21 AM   #6
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:24 AM   #7
Loa
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Hello,

I agree. The intense conservatism shown here (by the users on the forum, not the admins) is childish. Just about nobody realizes that this Mac Pro is the modular Mac Pro that most people wanted without the clunky design. Is it perfect? Nope. No machine is.

The only hurdle that remains is the insane price of thunderbolt peripherals. Once that is overcome, most of the people here who are now saying "this Mac Pro sucks" will see what their fear of change prevent them from seeing.

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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:25 AM   #8
tdar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplybetter View Post
Today with the unveiling of the new 2013 Mac Pro, a whole wave of criticism has come from this site which to say the least is detestable.

Even without any details people jumped to the conclusion that it can not be opened, can't be upgraded and that it is made of plastic. All of which is not true

Such criticism should only be coming from a cheesy Windows 8 supporter who is pissed off about no longer having a start button, not from the MacRumors community. It has become increasingly hard to see who supports the Mac Pro anymore on this once great community.

What has been revealed from Apple with the new Mac Pro has revolutionized the entire personal and professional computer market. It's design is unlike any other computer on the market. The new Mac Pro has changed how we view computer form factors and computer power vs. size.

It is quite obvious that the new Mac Pro will have a new Intel Ivy Bridge E5 2600 v2 12 core processor as shown in leaked roadmaps. At a minimum for people who hate the look of the Mac Pro this will provide Hackintosh users with power management for the newest generation Intel chips.

For those who want expandability with graphics cards, just like with the Saphire HD 7950, there will be alternative options for the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro is not closed.

Apple has equipped the Mac Pro with 6 of the fastest memory I/O's in the world and still complaints about hard drive expandability are excessive. Every major manufacture of external hard drives manufactures Thunderbolt devices. The reason for this is because the future is on the cloud, not on your hard drive.

This computer is called a "Pro" for a reason, and it's not because it's built for every poor cretin on this site who owns an iPhone. In fact most of the people on here who say they wouldn't buy it now wouldn't buy a new mac pro in the old form factor simply because it costs too much.

Are you scared of change? Scared of innovation? Scared of computers that are not box shaped? Or are you just so caught up in your own view of the world that you fail to see what is truly in front of you? Apple is showing you what you want, that's their job, you just don't know it yet.
I could not agree more. Funny that in the PC world we have square earth mentality around Win 8 and now in the Mac world we see the same thing regarding the Mac Pro. Some people can not except anything that is not from their old fashioned world view. They have no vision.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:28 AM   #9
GermanyChris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplybetter View Post
Today with the unveiling of the new 2013 Mac Pro, a whole wave of criticism has come from this site which to say the least is detestable.

Even without any details people jumped to the conclusion that it can not be opened, can't be upgraded and that it is made of plastic. All of which is not true

Such criticism should only be coming from a cheesy Windows 8 supporter who is pissed off about no longer having a start button, not from the MacRumors community. It has become increasingly hard to see who supports the Mac Pro anymore on this once great community.

What has been revealed from Apple with the new Mac Pro has revolutionized the entire personal and professional computer market. It's design is unlike any other computer on the market. The new Mac Pro has changed how we view computer form factors and computer power vs. size.

It is quite obvious that the new Mac Pro will have a new Intel Ivy Bridge E5 2600 v2 12 core processor as shown in leaked roadmaps. At a minimum for people who hate the look of the Mac Pro this will provide Hackintosh users with power management for the newest generation Intel chips.

For those who want expandability with graphics cards, just like with the Saphire HD 7950, there will be alternative options for the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro is not closed.

Apple has equipped the Mac Pro with 6 of the fastest memory I/O's in the world and still complaints about hard drive expandability are excessive. Every major manufacture of external hard drives manufactures Thunderbolt devices. The reason for this is because the future is on the cloud, not on your hard drive.

This computer is called a "Pro" for a reason, and it's not because it's built for every poor cretin on this site who owns an iPhone. In fact most of the people on here who say they wouldn't buy it now wouldn't buy a new mac pro in the old form factor simply because it costs too much.

Are you scared of change? Scared of innovation? Scared of computers that are not box shaped? Or are you just so caught up in your own view of the world that you fail to see what is truly in front of you? Apple is showing you what you want, that's their job, you just don't know it yet.
I'm not a cheerleader for anything, Apple doesn't pay me so I don't "support" them.

The rest is just the same personal opinion noise that you're complaining about
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:31 AM   #10
tdar
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Originally Posted by Wardenski View Post
Not sure if trolling...

Innovation is nice but it doesn't mean every innovation is useful for everyone.

Heard of Microsofts recent innovation regarding used games?
But what if "Microsofts recent innovation regarding used games" is truly innovation? What if they know something that you don't. What if they can see the whole picture while you only see a small piece of it. Same with this new MP.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:32 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
I'm not a cheerleader for anything, Apple doesn't pay me so I don't "support" them.

The rest is just the same personal opinion noise that you're complaining about
Complaining about complainers is always a great past time.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:32 AM   #12
Simplybetter
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With the ever persistent GPU war between AMD and Nvidia there is no doubt that Apple will allow expandability.

The base model wont be all that "Base" and the price will be very hard to swallow.

Great original review of the G4 Cube!

People love the bandwagon when a product is not how they would picture it. They don't realize that they are not Jonathan Ive.

Innovation is the application of new solutions that meet new requirements, inarticulate needs, or existing market needs. Buying new registrations for a pre-used disc is not a solution to anything other than making more profit nor is it meeting a new requirement for a new markets needs.

Hello to you to, its nice to meet you.

That image was definitely made by a windows user.

This is true that no machine is perfect, and there never will be, but people should not ridicule Apple for putting a new light and a different more efficient spin on a high end product.

If most of the comments were read out allowed without knowing that they came from this community you wouldn't be wrong for thinking that they came from a windows based supporters forum.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:34 AM   #13
Pakaku
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I'm not usually much of a fangirl of anything, but this has to be the first time in a while that I've actually been intrigued over a computer. Very interested in how modular the thing will be, and how its competitors are going to react to a tube-shaped computer.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:45 AM   #14
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I'm not usually much of a fangirl of anything, but this has to be the first time in a while that I've actually been intrigued over a computer. Very interested in how modular the thing will be, and how its competitors are going to react to a tube-shaped computer.
I like the storage all being external. It means it can be quickly moved to another computer if needed.

Also, the less you muck around inside a computer, the less likely there will be an issue with it. It doesn't matter how careful you are - stuff happens.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 07:59 AM   #15
utekineir
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I'm torn.

The traditional pro tower being pretty much the only apple item that endorsed opening up the case and digging in like a pc tower had a lot of appeal. Standard 3.5" drives, regular expansion cards (supported by drivers), etc. Not everyone is afraid of doing so, and it does open up many benefits that in the past have not been available with external devices.


Thunderbolt 2 obviously can support the demands performance wise, but going all external on that stuff means cables, potential extra power adaptors, and a hodgepodge of assorted looking device enclosures to contend with. Essentially a mess waiting to happen, not really appleish imo. Plus the price premium for going external, which up till this point has been absurd on thunderbolt (pay a premium for a device, then half the time another $50 for a cable....).

It all sounds great on paper, but really wether this pans out or not will be as much reliant on the 3rd party creating the thunderbolt devices as it is apple.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 08:04 AM   #16
comatory
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Originally Posted by utekineir View Post
I'm torn.

The traditional pro tower being pretty much the only apple item that endorsed opening up the case and digging in like a pc tower had a lot of appeal. Standard 3.5" drives, regular expansion cards (supported by drivers), etc. Not everyone is afraid of doing so, and it does open up many benefits that in the past have not been available with external devices.


Thunderbolt 2 obviously can support the demands performance wise, but going all external on that stuff means cables, potential extra power adaptors, and a hodgepodge of assorted looking device enclosures to contend with. Essentially a mess waiting to happen, not really appleish imo. Plus the price premium for going external, which up till this point has been absurd on thunderbolt (pay a premium for a device, then half the time another $50 for a cable....).

It all sounds great on paper, but really wether this pans out or not will be as much reliant on the 3rd party creating the thunderbolt devices as it is apple.
I think lots of this cable clutter will be handled by a single enclosure, once it comes to market. I believe Sonnet, OWC or Belking will probably make one. I imagine something with Blu-Ray burner, 2.5 or 3.5" bays for SATA hard drives, it will have integrated SD card reader and USB hub. Once you have this, you actually have only one box with one power adapter, if it fit your needs though.

Talking about GPU and stuff is another matter.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 08:08 AM   #17
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In french mac community we got similar attitude, many people are stuck in the 1990's on their hardware conception and they don't see the difference between "a pro computer user" and "a professional who use computer".

Espcially they focus on "OH I WILL NEED EXTERNAL STORAGE, MEANS CABLE IT IS NOT PRO". But external storage IS a standard for years in pro domain (Firewire, eSATA, Fibre, SAS), and more since SSD get back the "online/ofline" way of work on the table.

And I not tell about "OWNOW THERE IS NO CHEAP BLU RAY RECORDER, THAT'S A SCANDAL APPLE WILL DIE IN 2014", holy sh***, do you want RJ-242 port too ? Because it's still used in military industry!

You don't do optical duplication with your "neon laser watercooling BD-R drive" - you give your digital master... to a pro. And for common work (or doing a master every month) you got external drive - wtf who use optical media for another thing ? I prefer SPACE and SILENCE on my desk during the time I did not use it.

Most of them compare TB to Firewire and tell you "FIREWIRE IS A FAIL". Hell no, 80% of pro audio hardware still use FW800 and before eSATA, it gave to us many power and flexibility in video. Yes it's not exactly a consumer success but who cares, we talk about niche usage... but for dogs who make 95% of your TV/Console/Theatre content !

And finally, "HOWNO I CANNOT PUT MY MLC OCZ 180GB SSD IN", damn, who cares of putting consumer SSD on in when you got PCI-E in standard ? "BUT IT'S A AN APPLE DRIVE AND NO A STANDARD", yes kid, there is no PCI-E standard for SSD - SATA-Express is only a paperwork for now. It's a common form factor in term of connector so be sure that third-party company will offer you upgrade like OWC, Toshiba... or Samsung



Yes this MP sign a big change in terms of workflow that some part of inependant or early industry adopters made during the last three years, but it's a good thing. All kind of computer got major progress during the last 5 years, workstation was the only one to stay on 80's concept. Yes it will not fit for all, yes in very very specific usage, lack of native PCI-E port could be damaging.

But PCI-E card on chassit means you can have flexibility on you working space. Prievously, al your I/O was stuck on a big truck under the table. Now you can disport it as long as TB cable support it, means more option on electricity, cooling, ventilation and how you can dispatch your peripheral on the chain and in your working room - and use it easily on different computer.

BUT, but, but, I just temperate my enthusiasm because for now we have no idea of the price (and noise, even we will have more idea on the Pixar/Adobe demo during the WWDC).
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 08:29 AM   #18
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Can anyone tell me what was the price tag of a strongly spec'd Mac Pro was when the current design came out in ??2006?
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 08:40 AM   #19
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Can anyone tell me what was the price tag of a strongly spec'd Mac Pro was when the current design came out in ??2006?
3GHz 4-cores, 8GB RAM, 2x500GB HDD, Radeon X1900XT and Applecare was US$7,100.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 08:59 AM   #20
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Additional RAM from Apple has always been ridiculously expensive.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 09:08 AM   #21
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I think lots of this cable clutter will be handled by a single enclosure, once it comes to market. I believe Sonnet, OWC or Belking will probably make one. I imagine something with Blu-Ray burner, 2.5 or 3.5" bays for SATA hard drives, it will have integrated SD card reader and USB hub. Once you have this, you actually have only one box with one power adapter, if it fit your needs though.

Talking about GPU and stuff is another matter.
the solutions will be there i'm sure.

but its going to boil down to how well they are implemented.

a bunch of mismatched plastic boxes don't really fit the motiff of a lot of the people here who like to post up pretty desk pictures.

they're going to be heartbroken.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 09:08 AM   #22
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In my opinion, the majority of the people bellyaching are the tinkerers and people who want a machine that's future proof for at least several years. However, they fail to realize that Apple never truly intended the Mac Pros to have upgradable CPUs. I can sympathize with people in this category as I like to tinker around once in a while myself.

Those who complain about lack of internal drive bays, there are many options for external drive bays. USB3 and Thunderbolt should be able to satisfy just about everyone.

For those who wish to not have too many cables clutter their desktop, 802.11ac can make using NASes/SANs a viable option.

Personally, I think the design of the next Mac Pro is brilliant. I just hope I will be able to afford one at some point.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 09:09 AM   #23
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Additional RAM from Apple has always been ridiculously expensive.
If that was in response to my reply, yes it has. Although that configuration with non-Apple memory and 3rd party HDDs would have still been $5,900.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 09:14 AM   #24
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If that was in response to my reply, yes it has. Although that configuration with non-Apple memory and 3rd party HDDs would have still been $5,900.
I don't remember how much I paid for my 1st gen Mac Pro with two dual core 3GHz CPUs and X1900 but I am quite certain it was not $5900. I would never have been able to afford it.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 09:20 AM   #25
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Shouldn't you preface some of your statements with "I think"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplybetter View Post
With the ever persistent GPU war between AMD and Nvidia there is no doubt that Apple will allow expandability.

The base model wont be all that "Base" and the price will be very hard to swallow.

Great original review of the G4 Cube!

People love the bandwagon when a product is not how they would picture it. They don't realize that they are not Jonathan Ive.

Innovation is the application of new solutions that meet new requirements, inarticulate needs, or existing market needs. Buying new registrations for a pre-used disc is not a solution to anything other than making more profit nor is it meeting a new requirement for a new markets needs.

Hello to you to, its nice to meet you.

That image was definitely made by a windows user.

This is true that no machine is perfect, and there never will be, but people should not ridicule Apple for putting a new light and a different more efficient spin on a high end product.

If most of the comments were read out allowed without knowing that they came from this community you wouldn't be wrong for thinking that they came from a windows based supporters forum.
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