Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jun 13, 2013, 09:25 AM   #1
tshrimp
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Where, oh where has our religious freedoms gone?

For our American posters here at PRSI, do you still consider the United States a place for religious freedoms, or have they been lost in the light of political correctness?

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...amendment.html
tshrimp is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 09:36 AM   #2
yg17
macrumors G5
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Do you have anything from a real news source?
__________________
Barack Obama is not a foreign born, brown skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away healthcare. You're thinking of Jesus.
yg17 is online now   19 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 09:51 AM   #3
mcrain
Banned
 
mcrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Illinois
You can practice whatever religion you want, but if you bring it into my government, my courthouse, or my laws, then you and I will have a problem. You have NO right to teach my kid some prayer or lead a prayer in front of a classroom. You have NO right to put the ten commandments up in a courthouse that has to hear cases involving people of all religions. You have NO right to pass laws based on your book of religious texts. NONE.

You have the freedom to practice your religion. They have the freedom to practice their religion. Others have the freedom from all religion. That's freedom.

The right-wing Christian fundamentalists who insist on sticking their religion into everything are trying to take freedom away from everyone else, and damnit, I for one won't tolerate it.
mcrain is offline   29 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 10:10 AM   #4
lannister80
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicagoland
Oh no, Christians aren't being pandered to quite as much as usual. THE HORROR.
__________________
Early 2008 Mac Pro, 8x2.8GHz, 3.25TB, 18GB RAM
UnRAID NAS, 9TB storage, 3TB parity, 400GB cache
lannister80 is online now   7 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 10:13 AM   #5
Todd H
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eastman, Georgia
Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1371136386.920879.jpg
Views: 708
Size:  18.4 KB
__________________
Mac mini 2.4 GHz 8 GB RAM 750 GB 7200 RPM internal HDD, iPhone 3S 16GB Black, iPhone 4 32GB Black, iPhone 5 32GB Black
Todd H is offline   21 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 10:17 AM   #6
Huntn
macrumors 604
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
For our American posters here at PRSI, do you still consider the United States a place for religious freedoms, or have they been lost in the light of political correctness?

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...amendment.html
You should not have the ability to wear you religion as a badge, in a position of authority over others. As others have said, this does nothing to limit your religious freedom to worship as you see fit. Funny that you would cite Faux News.

By the way, would it bother you if your Commanding Officer kept a Qur'an on his desk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd H View Post
Being oppressed to the predominant religion apparently means not being able to have your proselytizing ways with other-believers.
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.
Huntn is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 10:33 AM   #7
chrono1081
macrumors 604
 
chrono1081's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Isla Nublar
To answer the OP's question...

I'm a Christian and I have complete religious freedom, however I DO have a problem with people who use religion to oppress the rights of others (which is what a majority of Christians seem to do).

Religion should NEVER be able to dictate another individuals rights. I also don't agree with religion being in schools.

I have quite a different interpretation of the Bible than other Christians and I don't want right-wing nuts who can only quote the mistranslated English versions of the Bible influencing my children in the classroom and telling them things like "gays are bad and going to hell" or "if you have sex before marriage your future husband will be satan" and other untrue things.

Also Christians in the U.S. are in no way shape or form being oppressed. Instead they are the ones doing the oppressing and trying to use the excuse of "its their beliefs" to justify their oppression of others.

The way I see it, someones personal beliefs become irrelevant as soon as it affects others. We all only get one life to live and not a single person has the right to try and oppress someone else.

The only example I can see of Christians being oppressed is in the Middle East where they are being targeted and attacked.
__________________
Mac Pro (2010): 3.33Ghz Intel Xeon (6 core) - 24 GB RAM - NVidia Quadro k5000
Macbook Air (2010): 2.13 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo - 4GB RAM
chrono1081 is offline   7 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 10:59 AM   #8
tshrimp
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by yg17 View Post
Do you have anything from a real news source?
Yes...See my link. Any link I use will be met with "from a real news source" unless I select a liberal one. But it was just a general question and didn't even require a link.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntn View Post

By the way, would it bother you if your Commanding Officer kept a Qur'an on his desk or computer?

Being oppressed to the predominant religion apparently means not being able to have your proselytizing ways with other-believers.
I would not have an issue with a Commanding Officer keeping a Qur'an on his/her desk at all. I would hope they would if that was the persons faith.

On your second point. I work in a place that will not allow christian displays on your desk, but others are okay, and I came from another company where it was okay to display anything at Christmas time from any other religion but we could not post or say "Merry Christmas".
tshrimp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 10:59 AM   #9
Sydde
macrumors 68000
 
Sydde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
I'm a Christian and I have complete religious freedom, however I DO have a problem with people who use religion to oppress the rights of others (which is what a majority of Christians seem to do).
I do not think this is quite correct. The majority of Christians, everywhere, are get-along people who consider their own personal salvation, when they think about it, and live and let live. The great howling excretory orifices who make noise and trouble about America being Sodom and their religious rights being trampled are a small minority. Atheism and agnosticism are growing rather rapidly, it seems likely that soon the screaming believers will be outnumbered even by unbelievers, if they are not already.
__________________
You got to be a spirit. You can't be no ghost.
Sydde is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 11:01 AM   #10
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
Yes...See my link. Any link I use will be met with "from a real news source" unless I select a liberal one. But it was just a general question and didn't even require a link.
I'm at work and don't have time to listen to the radio program.

But from first glance it looks like personal commentary and not an actual news source.

It has nothing to do with liberal v. conservative.
citizenzen is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 11:07 AM   #11
yg17
macrumors G5
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
You stay classy Fox News commenters:

Quote:
Let me get this straight.. you are surprised that a piece of islamic scum like Obama would be against religious freedom? mannnn I want a hit of whatever you've been smoking.
I bet this guy did plenty of bitching about Reverend Wright. So who is Obama? A Muslim, or a Christian with a preacher who hates Obama? Make up your god damn mind.

Quote:
Is it just me or is ironic that a man who claims to be a Christian caters to the atheists and gays while punishing Christians for any public expression of faith?
Atheists! Gays! Ermahgerd!

Quote:
Scary wave that will build into a nightmare for Christians. Satan is using homosexuality to marginalize Christianity, right before our eyes. Can you think of anything more debauched and heinous? I can't. Western Civilization is based on Judeo Christian values. When Christianity is ordered out of the public square, society will crumble.
If Satan was trying to marginalize Christianity, I'd like to think he'd do something more effective than give us gay people, like wipe out parts of the bible belt with tornados. Oh, wait....

Quote:
looks like Barrys Satanic side is coming Through as he BARES his CLAWS and FANGS...........He needs to get to going now! Arrest the Traitor, because you can't Impeach an ILLEGAL ALIEN!
Hawaii's a foreign country?

Quote:
For years the military have been even tougher on atheist, you know why? Atheist and communism walk hand in hand, if separation of church and state fully succeeds then our nations next step will be socialism and that which leads to all out communism.

Laugh if you will, I have had family who lived under communism and they shared horror stories of living under Joesph Stalin's rule. I have read about Stalin and I see many similarities with him and our current president and also with many atheist.
I am indeed laughing behind my facepalm.

Quote:
Time for a Christian holy war time to stand up for our Savior
Here's my prediction for the score: US Military: 1. Christians: 0

Quote:
Obama opposes a religious freedom amendment? why is anyone surprised by that ass clown's actions anymore? Germany 1939 folks...
Paging Mr. Godwin

Quote:
fags get there right we don't.
Pure class right there

Quote:
How do I get off this bus?
Jump

Quote:
go to France and note the hundreds and hundreds of crosses at the American cemetery at Normandy. A few stars of David, zero Muslim crescents. This president, had their been a draft when he was young, would have left Hawaii and gone back to Singapore. Had it not been for men steeped in both the new and old testament at the founding of this country...there would be no country. There are no atheists in foxholes Mr. President
Pat Tillman said to go **** yourself

Quote:
Dig down more deeply, and you'll find some jews pushing this.
Took about 10 pages of comments but we finally have someone blaming this on the Jews.
__________________
Barack Obama is not a foreign born, brown skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away healthcare. You're thinking of Jesus.
yg17 is online now   7 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 11:08 AM   #12
Huntn
macrumors 604
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
I would not have an issue with a Commanding Officer keeping a Qur'an on his/her desk at all. I would hope they would if that was the persons faith.

On your second point. I work in a place that will not allow christian displays on your desk, but others are okay, and I came from another company where it was okay to display anything at Christmas time from any other religion but we could not post or say "Merry Christmas".
So as a Christian, it would not bother you if they had the Qur'an equivalent of the 10 Commandments posted on the Court House door? You know something like "Death to Infidels!!"

When you say no Christian displays allowed, but others are, can you give an example? I stress that the standard must be evenly applied. If a town council decides no Christmas displays in town, there better not be any religious displays allowed. Personally I have no issue with saying Merry Christmas.
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.
Huntn is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 11:14 AM   #13
zioxide
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
So as a Christian, it would not bother you if they had the Qur'an equivalent of the 10 Commandments posted on the Court House door? You know something like "Death to Infidels!!"

When you say no Christian displays allowed, but others are, can you give an example? I stress that the standard must be evenly applied. If a town council decides no Christmas displays in town, there better not be any religious displays allowed. Personally I have no issue with saying Merry Christmas.
Christmas isn't just a christian thing. It started as a pagan holiday until the christians hijacked it, but there are many non-religious people who still celebrate it.



Also, those comments from the Fox noise site are a pretty sad commentary on the failure of the American education system and the ridiculous ignorance that is prevalent in many parts of this country. It's sad, really.
zioxide is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 11:30 AM   #14
SLC Flyfishing
macrumors 65816
 
SLC Flyfishing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Portland, OR
What's wring with someone who wants to keep a bible on their desk?

Why are they not allowed to show their faith outwardly? If that is not restriction of freedom then I don't know what is!

Last edited by SLC Flyfishing; Jun 13, 2013 at 12:11 PM.
SLC Flyfishing is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 11:33 AM   #15
samiwas
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
On your second point. I work in a place that will not allow christian displays on your desk, but others are okay, and I came from another company where it was okay to display anything at Christmas time from any other religion but we could not post or say "Merry Christmas".
I'm not religious. I don't like people pushing their religion on others or using their religion as the basis for law.

That being said, I say Merry Christmas, Happy Easter, and I think it's freaking stupid to restrict such a thing. If someone wants to walk up to me and say Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, Merry Chrismahanukwanzakah, Happy Flying Spaghetti Monster Day...it doesn't bother me, and it shouldn't bother anyone else. If it's not your thing, fine, but why get panties in a wad about it?

And that being said, I do think that Christianity is trying to push too much onto others by pushing for laws that restrict others.
__________________
A lack of planning on your part should not constitute an emergency on mine.
samiwas is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 11:51 AM   #16
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
What's wring with someone who wants to keep a bible have sex on their desk?

Why are they not allowed to show it outwardly? If that is not restriction of freedom then I don't know what is!
Just like sex it's OK in your own home, but it is intimidating if you do it publicly.
__________________
If they have to tell you every day they are fair you can bet they arent, if they tell you they are balanced then you should know they are not - Don't Hurt me
Eraserhead is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 12:10 PM   #17
SLC Flyfishing
macrumors 65816
 
SLC Flyfishing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Just like sex it's OK in your own home, but it is intimidating if you do it publicly.
First off, that's a poor comparison.

Second off, why would you be intimidated by the mere sight of a bible?
SLC Flyfishing is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 12:18 PM   #18
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Second off, why would you be intimidated by the mere sight of a bible?
Well if you want to read some bible verses at lunchtime then that shouldn't be any more of a problem than someone reading fifty shades of grey at lunchtime (though I suspect if you're a schoolteacher that'd be a problem). However I get the impression that the person in this instance was pushing their personal religious beliefs a little bit more than that.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
I came from another company where it was okay to display anything at Christmas time from any other religion but we could not post or say "Merry Christmas".
That is ridiculous.
__________________
If they have to tell you every day they are fair you can bet they arent, if they tell you they are balanced then you should know they are not - Don't Hurt me
Eraserhead is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 12:23 PM   #19
SLC Flyfishing
macrumors 65816
 
SLC Flyfishing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Why?
Really? I'm sorry but you know exactly why. I'm not going to go down that path with you as it will only derail the thread; and any sane person doesn't require an explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Well if you want to read some bible verses at lunchtime then that shouldn't be any more of a problem than someone reading fifty shades of grey at lunchtime (though I suspect if you're a schoolteacher that'd be a problem). However I get the impression that the person in this instance was pushing their personal religious beliefs a little bit more than that.
I don't care of a teacher wants to read "50 shades of grey" at lunch time. That's the fantastic thing about books, one has to read them aloud for anyone else to know the content. If a teacher wants to sit and read silently, and not to his/her students, he/she can read anything they want as far as I'm concerned.

The mere presence of a bible (which the link mentioned is potentially being outlawed) is not enough to cause offense to anyone. At least not anyone who isn't looking for an opportunity to be offended.
SLC Flyfishing is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 12:39 PM   #20
chrono1081
macrumors 604
 
chrono1081's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Isla Nublar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydde View Post
I do not think this is quite correct. The majority of Christians, everywhere, are get-along people who consider their own personal salvation, when they think about it, and live and let live. The great howling excretory orifices who make noise and trouble about America being Sodom and their religious rights being trampled are a small minority. Atheism and agnosticism are growing rather rapidly, it seems likely that soon the screaming believers will be outnumbered even by unbelievers, if they are not already.
I hope you're correct here. Where I live sadly its pretty much all Fox News watchers who think their rights are being trampled. I'd like to think the rest of the world is not like this but living in PA it sure seems like everyone thinks that way.
__________________
Mac Pro (2010): 3.33Ghz Intel Xeon (6 core) - 24 GB RAM - NVidia Quadro k5000
Macbook Air (2010): 2.13 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo - 4GB RAM
chrono1081 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 12:42 PM   #21
Mac'nCheese
macrumors 68020
 
Mac'nCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
What's wring with someone who wants to keep a bible on their desk?

Why are they not allowed to show their faith outwardly? If that is not restriction of freedom then I don't know what is!
I'm a hard core atheist. I want religion out of my government, schools, etc. But I can't imagine why keeping a personal bible (or any religious book) on your personal desk at work (being in the Army is a job, after all) is against the rules. Hope we're missing some information here; if not, this is going to far....(IMHO)
Mac'nCheese is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 12:51 PM   #22
ugahairydawgs
macrumors 68020
 
ugahairydawgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
I hope you're correct here. Where I live sadly its pretty much all Fox News watchers who think their rights are being trampled. I'd like to think the rest of the world is not like this but living in PA it sure seems like everyone thinks that way.
As with all screaming crowds, the loudest of them all is usually the vast minority.

I know enough of the tin foil hat types that think the government is out to take all of their money and all of their guns and teach Islam in the schools. Some of them even happen to be religious to varying degrees.

But I know plenty more (in other words, almost all) true Christ followers who have opinions on taxes, a guns and all sorts of other things that aren't anywhere near hair-on-fire activist as the folks in the first group are.

The world tends to see the caricatures on all issues and assume that is the face of that particular group. A lot of groups raise a lot of money perpetuating those stereotypes.
ugahairydawgs is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 12:51 PM   #23
Huntn
macrumors 604
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Christmas isn't just a christian thing. It started as a pagan holiday until the christians hijacked it, but there are many non-religious people who still celebrate it.



Also, those comments from the Fox noise site are a pretty sad commentary on the failure of the American education system and the ridiculous ignorance that is prevalent in many parts of this country. It's sad, really.
Yeah, but the Pagans did not call it Christmas nor did they celebrate the same thing so this is kind of beside the point I was making. Most of the non-religious people I know who celebrate Christmas use it as an opportunity to socialize, commercialize, and give and receive goodies.
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.

Last edited by Huntn; Jun 13, 2013 at 01:22 PM.
Huntn is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 01:32 PM   #24
zioxide
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
What's wring with someone who wants to keep a bible on their desk?

Why are they not allowed to show their faith outwardly? If that is not restriction of freedom then I don't know what is!
Because it's annoying to have people spouting off about their religion all the time. I don't have a problem if you keep it to yourself, but unfortunately many religious people lack that capability.

I wonder how the religious folks would feel if every time they mentioned religion, god, or whatever, the people who don't believe in fairy tales said stuff to the effect of "god doesn't exist", etc. How long would it take before they got annoyed?

That's what it's like for people who aren't religious when we hear people saying "thank god" or "praise god" or whatever for every single little thing in their lives.

And on top of that, the radical religious freaks have been trying to restrict other's rights based off of fairy tales for too long... it's about time people stood up and said enough of this ********. It's 2013.. pick up a science textbook and put down the fairy tales.
zioxide is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 01:50 PM   #25
mcrain
Banned
 
mcrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs View Post
But I know plenty more (in other words, almost all) true Christ followers who have opinions on taxes, a guns and all sorts of other things that aren't anywhere near hair-on-fire activist as the folks in the first group are.

The world tends to see the caricatures on all issues and assume that is the face of that particular group. A lot of groups raise a lot of money perpetuating those stereotypes.
I would agree with you, except, an entire political party in this country has been hijacked by the hair-on-fire crazy loony-toons whack-a-doodles. Until the true-Christ followers decide to kick those fools out and say we won't be ruled by your brand of bigotry, hatred, and evil, then the caricature isn't just a caricature, but the actual face of that group of people.

The easy choice is to switch parties and join the reasonable majority.
mcrain is offline   4 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[NEW][FREE] Bible Quiz 3D - Religious Game nebojsa iPhone and iPod touch Apps 0 Sep 10, 2013 02:52 AM
religious freedom for Czechs Sydde Politics, Religion, Social Issues 21 Aug 8, 2013 08:24 AM
75% of Americans think America would be better off if it was more religious quagmire Politics, Religion, Social Issues 40 May 31, 2013 01:10 PM
Religious Fresco Restoration Disaster wrkactjob Politics, Religion, Social Issues 16 Sep 21, 2012 10:24 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC