Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > iOS Blog Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jun 21, 2013, 09:46 AM   #1
MacRumors
macrumors bot
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Tokyo Court Says Samsung Infringed Apple 'Bounce Back' Patent




Reuters reports on a decision from a Tokyo court ruling that Samsung has infringed Apple's "bounce back" patent. The report notes that the decision comes months after the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) ruled that the patent was invalid, but the agency reversed that decision just last week, reconfirming the validity of the key claim of Apple's patent.
Quote:
Apple*claimed that Samsung had copied the "bounce-back", in which icons on its smartphones and tablets quiver back when users scroll to the end of an electronic document. Samsung has already changed its interface on recent models to show a blue line at the end of documents.
In the past couple of months, the "bounce back" ruling has come under heavy scrutiny with a number of claims found invalid in multiple rulings. The invalid declaration allowed Samsung to continue to sell older phone models that used the feature.

But with that key claim being reconfirmed after reexamination last week, Apple has now defended it twice against challenges, giving the patent stronger presumptive validity in its court cases.

The patent was successfully used by Apple in its U.S. lawsuit against Samsung, which yielded a $1 billion judgment. In November, there will be a trial to redetermine the portion of damages that Samsung must pay Apple after the ruling was partly thrown out due to jury error.

Article Link: Tokyo Court Says Samsung Infringed Apple 'Bounce Back' Patent
MacRumors is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 10:10 AM   #2
Bhatu
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Thumbs up

Apple to Samsung: "One night I'm gonna come to you, inside of your house, wherever you're sleeping, and I'm gonna cut your throat."
Bhatu is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 10:22 AM   #3
jonnysods
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Aussie living in Canada
SUE EVERYONE.

I filed a patent on breathing. I'm taking everyone in the whole world to court. I want $1 from every person.
jonnysods is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 10:40 AM   #4
GSPice
macrumors 68000
 
GSPice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysods View Post
SUE EVERYONE.

I filed a patent on breathing. I'm taking everyone in the whole world to court. I want $1 from every person.
Sorry, that's not what this is about.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
A Tokyo court! I love it!
__________________
15" Haswell rMBP 2.3/16/512/750m | 24" iMac 3.06/500/4/8800 | Mac OS X 10.9.2
AEBS MC340LL/A | APC RS 800VA/XS 1000 | iPhone 5 16GB 7.1 | iPad 16GB LTE 7.1 | Apple TV 2
GSPice is offline   8 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 10:46 AM   #5
street.cory
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Good. I'm glad that Apple is the winner on this patent dispute.

This is a case where Samsung clearly could have created and implemented their own solution of the "bounce back" feature but blatantly copied it until they were called out on it.
__________________
no one cares

street.cory is offline   13 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 11:06 AM   #6
keysofanxiety
macrumors 65816
 
keysofanxiety's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: In a house that defies physics by being colder than absolute zero.
Quote:
A Tokyo court! I love it!

At the risk of being pedantic, Samsung are Korean... and the Japanese hatred of Samsung (and Korean business in general) is well documented ...

... but other than that!
__________________
"And they all lived happily ever after ... except for Pocket, who died of Hepatitis B."

Last edited by keysofanxiety; Jun 21, 2013 at 11:27 AM. Reason: I was a little rude before. Sorry! :)
keysofanxiety is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 11:09 AM   #7
nikeislove
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
I always though that effect was from Palm WebOS.
nikeislove is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 11:22 AM   #8
SvenSvenson
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysods View Post
SUE EVERYONE.

I filed a patent on breathing. I'm taking everyone in the whole world to court. I want $1 from every person.
Did you do it first?
SvenSvenson is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 11:42 AM   #9
nagromme
macrumors G5
 
nagromme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Why don't more people want to see what Samsung could do instead of copying Apple?

Every time Samsung copies Apple, we get LESS choice and LESS innovation in the market.

Why do some people seem to want Samsung to be a copycat? Sounds more fun, to me, to see what they come up with on their own. (In this case, a blue stripe--which sounds like it would serve the purpose just fine in a less fun way.) THAT would be competition worth having in the market. I would think Samsung fans would agree--just like Apple fans wouldn't want to see Apple slavishly clone Windows 8.

No, Samsung doesn't copy every little detail from Apple.... but they copy SO many SO slavishly that they're in a league all their own. (They even went white when Apple did!) What would all those iPhone-alike products have been if Samsung acted more like other phone makers and went in their own direction? I'd love to have THAT choice in the market more often, and lazy clones less.
nagromme is offline   6 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 11:58 AM   #10
dBeats
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
Why don't more people want to see what Samsung could do instead of copying Apple?
You're making the large assumption that they could innovate instead of copy. Considering they Stabbed Sony in the back all those years ago and undercut them on TVs that were essentially the same as the one's they were making for Sony, I think the long term strategy has been pretty clear. Take (or become a "partner"), copy, advertise "Why pay more, we have same thing", make 200 variations each with some spec tweaked, crash the price/commoditize, starve the innovator, spend then next 10 years doing nothing but bumping specs until a new innovator shows a new idea, rinse, lather, repeat.
dBeats is offline   7 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 12:19 PM   #11
nagromme
macrumors G5
 
nagromme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by dBeats View Post
You're making the large assumption that they could innovate instead of copy. Considering they Stabbed Sony in the back all those years ago and undercut them on TVs that were essentially the same as the one's they were making for Sony, I think the long term strategy has been pretty clear. Take (or become a "partner"), copy, advertise "Why pay more, we have same thing", make 200 variations each with some spec tweaked, crash the price/commoditize, starve the innovator, spend then next 10 years doing nothing but bumping specs until a new innovator shows a new idea, rinse, lather, repeat.
I also remember the Samsung "BlackJack" clone of BlackBerry. And "bump to share"? iPhone has had that (via a very nice free app) since at LEAST the iPhone 3G. (I'd rather have AirDrop, and have never seen anyone "bump" in real life.) However, Samsung tries SOME new things sometimes, and imagine if they did it more? Android fans should be calling for that, not fighting to keep innovative pressure off of Samsung.

It's just odd
nagromme is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 12:29 PM   #12
Skika
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by dBeats View Post
You're making the large assumption that they could innovate instead of copy. Considering they Stabbed Sony in the back all those years ago and undercut them on TVs that were essentially the same as the one's they were making for Sony, I think the long term strategy has been pretty clear. Take (or become a "partner"), copy, advertise "Why pay more, we have same thing", make 200 variations each with some spec tweaked, crash the price/commoditize, starve the innovator, spend then next 10 years doing nothing but bumping specs until a new innovator shows a new idea, rinse, lather, repeat.
Agreed. Samsung is a horrible company in that aspect.
__________________
MacBook Pro, iPad, iPhone
Skika is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 01:21 PM   #13
pirg
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
No surprise here. Samsung is a thief and courts worldwide are proving it
pirg is offline   6 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 01:40 PM   #14
SockRolid
macrumors 65816
 
SockRolid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Almost Rock Solid
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
... Samsung had copied the "bounce-back", in which icons on its smartphones and tablets quiver back when users scroll to the end of an electronic document.
Pretty sure the patent has nothing to do with icons quivering or moving in any way.
It's only the document content that bounces back when you scroll past an "edge."
(Emphasis mine.)

This is from an earlier MacRumors story (emphasis mine again):

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
The patent, which addresses the ability for content displayed on iOS devices to "bounce back" when the user scrolls to the top or bottom of the page.
Full story:

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/02/...patent-office/
__________________
Sent from my iPad Simulator
SockRolid is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 02:13 PM   #15
jonnysods
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Aussie living in Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenSvenson View Post
Did you do it first?
Dang it. Good point.
__________________
Sodagorn Media
www.sodagorn.com
jonnysods is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 02:27 PM   #16
blackhand1001
macrumors 68030
 
blackhand1001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by street.cory View Post
Good. I'm glad that Apple is the winner on this patent dispute.

This is a case where Samsung clearly could have created and implemented their own solution of the "bounce back" feature but blatantly copied it until they were called out on it.
They haven't used bounce back on a product in over 2 years and when they did it was part of stock android from before they switched to edge glow. It now uses the stock edge glow and even the original galaxy s switched to edge glow. Second of all there is so much prior art for the bounce back that the patent will likely be invalidated. Its also no secret that Japan has a hate for South Korea, especially in recent years.
__________________
Macbook 2008
HP Dv7t - 2.53 ghz, 9600m GT, WSXGA+, 120gb ssd, 250 gb 7200rpm
Core i7 3770k, 8gb ram, 2x 120gb sdd raid0, 500gb hdd, GTX 460
Moto X Dev Edition (VZW) Nexus 7
blackhand1001 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 04:01 PM   #17
macs4nw
macrumors 68020
 
macs4nw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: On Safari…..
Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenSvenson View Post
Did you do it first?
Or invent it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
Why don't more people want to see what Samsung could do instead of copying Apple?
Every time Samsung copies Apple, we get LESS choice and LESS innovation in the market.
Why do some people seem to want Samsung to be a copycat? Sounds more fun, to me, to see what they come up with on their own. (In this case, a blue stripe--which sounds like it would serve the purpose just fine in a less fun way.) THAT would be competition worth having in the market. I would think Samsung fans would agree--just like Apple fans wouldn't want to see Apple slavishly clone Windows 8.
No, Samsung doesn't copy every little detail from Apple.... but they copy SO many SO slavishly that they're in a league all their own. (They even went white when Apple did!) What would all those iPhone-alike products have been if Samsung acted more like other phone makers and went in their own direction? I'd love to have THAT choice in the market more often, and lazy clones less.
They've taken the (sl)easy way out.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dBeats View Post
You're making the large assumption that they could innovate instead of copy.....
They have more than enough money to hire talented people and come up with their own unique ideas a bit more often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dBeats View Post
.....Considering they Stabbed Sony in the back all those years ago and undercut them on TVs that were essentially the same as the one's they were making for Sony, I think the long term strategy has been pretty clear. Take (or become a "partner"), copy, advertise "Why pay more, we have same thing", make 200 variations each with some spec tweaked, crash the price/commoditize, starve the innovator, spend then next 10 years doing nothing but bumping specs until a new innovator shows a new idea, rinse, lather, repeat.
Sadly, True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
I also remember the Samsung "BlackJack" clone of BlackBerry. And "bump to share"? iPhone has had that (via a very nice free app) since at LEAST the iPhone 3G. (I'd rather have AirDrop, and have never seen anyone "bump" in real life.) However, Samsung tries SOME new things sometimes, and imagine if they did it more? Android fans should be calling for that, not fighting to keep innovative pressure off of Samsung. It's just odd
Agreed! Encouraging companies to copy good ideas (by purchasing their products), just for the sake of saving a little money, is a short-sighted policy, that in the long run leads to stagnation. When the companies who do stick their neck out, and take risks with bold new ideas, have been 'run out of town' by those, shamelessly copying those new features, and therefore being able to undercut the innovators (no R&D costs), what incentive will there be for another great company to come along, and take big risks with innovation, knowing they will soon enough be undercut by the copycats, and unable maybe, to even recoup their R&D investment.
__________________
Due to my aversion to bragging and clichés, no words of wisdom to be found on this line.....
macs4nw is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 04:07 PM   #18
street.cory
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
They haven't used bounce back on a product in over 2 years and when they did it was part of stock android from before they switched to edge glow. It now uses the stock edge glow and even the original galaxy s switched to edge glow. Second of all there is so much prior art for the bounce back that the patent will likely be invalidated. Its also no secret that Japan has a hate for South Korea, especially in recent years.
Okay. I really don't understand why you're responding to me. I didn't say or imply recent Samsung devices infringed on the patent or that Samsung hasn't implemented their own feature.

I said they
Quote:
copied it until they were called out on it.
Which means, they used to use it, now they don't.

As far as previous art, that's all good and dandy but they didn't patent it did they? Is the patent system abused in some cases? Yes. Does it protect people who own the patent? Yes.

Also, if you think Japan's hate for South Korea is the reason Apple won I'll direct you to this patent case.
__________________
no one cares

street.cory is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 04:35 PM   #19
bchery21
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenSvenson View Post
Did you do it first?
Got 'em!
bchery21 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 09:47 PM   #20
GenesisST
macrumors 65816
 
GenesisST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Where I live
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysods View Post
SUE EVERYONE.

I filed a patent on breathing. I'm taking everyone in the whole world to court. I want $1 from every person.
Bill Gates would still be richer than you...
__________________
Kenmore microwave, Frigidaire oven, Fisher & Paykel fridge, LG washer & Dryer and Crane toilet
GenesisST is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2013, 11:10 PM   #21
inscrewtable
macrumors 6502a
 
inscrewtable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
I find the 'sosumi' apple sound to be rather irritating but with the current rate of litigation, it looks like this 'in' joke will be with us for a long time yet.
__________________
2013 2.7GHz rMBP
iPod Touch 5th Gen,
inscrewtable is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2013, 12:38 AM   #22
Yamcha
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Ridiculous! iOS6 & 7 clearly borrows so much from Android 4+ yet as far as I know Apple hasn't been sued yet, maybe the difference is it wasn't patented? Well in my view copying is copying, so I really find it appalling when Apple is "Borrowing" ideas from Android and they don't seem to have an issue with it.

But when another company like Samsung in this case uses the bounce back effect, it becomes the end of all things.

How about let's stop having double standards and start being fair and objective?
__________________
iMac 27" | Intel Core i5 3.2GHz | 8GB Memory | 1TB Hard Drive | GeForce GTX 675MX 1GB | OSX Mavericks 10.9.1 | Windows 8.1 64-Bit
Yamcha is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2013, 05:12 AM   #23
thepowerofnone
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysods View Post
SUE EVERYONE.

I filed a patent on breathing. I'm taking everyone in the whole world to court. I want $1 from every person.
A patent on breathing you say? I would like to license that under FRAND please - since it is truly essential to life, and $1 is a hugely inflated price. Also, I will see you in court to challenge whether I actually infringed on your "breathing" patent, since my way of breathing is just a little bit different, and I will be filling with the Patent Office to have your patent invalidated on grounds that I don't believe you can prove that you invented it. Welcome to the world of patents - even if you had legitimately invented breathing I would have so many ways to try to dodge your patent and cost you money defending it, it begs the question why would you invent at all when you can just replicate. Why indeed...

When I win, don't deliver my legal expenses to me in $0.05 coins: a bank transfer is necessary.
thepowerofnone is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2013, 05:27 AM   #24
thepowerofnone
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamcha View Post
Ridiculous! iOS6 & 7 clearly borrows so much from Android 4+ yet as far as I know Apple hasn't been sued yet, maybe the difference is it wasn't patented? Well in my view copying is copying, so I really find it appalling when Apple is "Borrowing" ideas from Android and they don't seem to have an issue with it.

But when another company like Samsung in this case uses the bounce back effect, it becomes the end of all things.

How about let's stop having double standards and start being fair and objective?
Maybe its because iOS 6 was publicly previewed before Jelly Bean was and most of the similarities didn't come in until JB? So surely Apple should be suing Google for that to? Or maybe because the similarities between the early iOS's (which was the first to be developed/released/previewed/any other word you like) and the original Android are so staggeringly obvious that of Google to go into court and say "iOS is a copy of Android" would have the whole room in hysterics? IF Android were to introduce a piece of software or a phone developer introduced a piece of hardware which was legitimately patentable then Apple ought to have to pay for it. However, you can't patent "4G on a mobile device" or "a home screen with icons arranged in a grid pattern" and if you could Samsung got there first on the 4G and Apple beat Android to the grid pattern so everyone owes everyone else lots of money. You can patent software quirks which improve the interface without really adding functionality however since Samsung can't turn around and say "we introduced bounce back because it solved this major issue our customers have been having"; they introduced it because they saw it on iOS and realised that it improved the user experience. I can't think of any user experience items which Apple has copied.

FYI I use a Nexus 4 and think that its an amazing, great value product that blows the iPhone out of the water when it comes to value for money, but it just really annoys me when people accuse Apple of not innovating when its one of very few companies to truly alter traditional technology markets in the past 10 years and its done it three times. The only other one which springs to mind is Sony with the RX100 camera - that little thing has changed the digital camera market significantly by raising the bar a long, long way for its competitors.
thepowerofnone is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2013, 08:56 AM   #25
szw-mapple fan
macrumors 6502a
 
szw-mapple fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by keysofanxiety View Post
At the risk of being pedantic, Samsung are Korean... and the Japanese hatred of Samsung (and Korean business in general) is well documented ...

... but other than that!
Correct, but then all the Japanese phone makers used and still uses Android. If they awarded Apple this case it might open the doors for Apple to sue other Japanese makers who have also 'borrowed' this feature.

I'm glad Apple won this. The bounce back feature is much more than a 'rounded rectangle'.
szw-mapple fan is offline   1 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > iOS Blog Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apple and Samsung Negotiating Agreement to Settle Patent Disputes Out of Court MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 163 May 26, 2014 01:59 PM
Apple and Samsung Face Off in Court as Second Patent Infringement Trial Begins MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 49 Apr 5, 2014 03:59 PM
South Korean Court Dismisses Samsung's Patent Lawsuit Against Apple MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 57 Dec 20, 2013 11:32 PM
Samsung Denied New Trial Over Apple's 'Bounce-Back' Patent MacRumors iOS Blog Discussion 54 Aug 26, 2013 01:16 PM
Apple broiled, barbecued in court: Samsung PROVES pinch to zoom patent invalid tninety Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion 12 Aug 14, 2012 03:37 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:41 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC