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Old Jun 22, 2013, 06:40 PM   #1
timehacker11
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This is not a "Pro" machine.

I can't understand why Apple is calling a non-expandable, no disc drive machine a "Pro" machine.

"Pro's", aka Professionals, do NOT want external expansion boxes cluttering their desk just because Apple deems it necessary to not allow people to expand it's internal components. ("expansion is external")

Professional users also want to burn media (videos, photos, etc) to DVDs and Blu Rays. Now, on top of a ~$3000+ machine, they have to purchase an additional external drive just to do that. Apple is not gonna undercut the price of the high end ridiculously priced 15" rMBP. ($2799)

Don't get me started on the internal storage. WHY can Pros NOT expand the internal storage? Yes, there are external drives, but when it comes down to it, it's yet ANOTHER external expansion box, cluttering an already cluttered desk.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 06:41 PM   #2
echoout
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Oh yes they do!!! Read these forums and you'll see!!
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 06:47 PM   #3
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The only way we'll settle this argument is through the marketplace.

We'll just have to wait and see.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 07:00 PM   #4
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The only way we'll settle this argument is through the marketplace.

We'll just have to wait and see.
There really isn't an argument. Apple and anyone with eyes knows this is Apple's attempt to gracefully exit the serious market and move into the Mickey Mouse/ "I'm a Director because I make wedding & graduation videos" market.

The serious folk need power with no compromises or middle man adapters. They want software that doesn't have excuses or silly limits. "What do you mean you need multi cam support? Just shoot with fewer cameras, see we SAVED you money !!!"

The wedding video guys are satisfied with a few sparkle dazzle spinning stars transitions and....a computer in a can.


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Originally Posted by echoout View Post
Oh yes they do!!! Read these forums and you'll see!!
Yes, it would seem most of Apple's shills have been posting all sorts of glowing comments.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 07:25 PM   #5
ABCDEF-Hex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timehacker11 View Post
I can't understand why Apple is calling a non-expandable, no disc drive machine a "Pro" machine.

"Pro's", aka Professionals, do NOT want external expansion boxes cluttering their desk just because Apple deems it necessary to not allow people to expand it's internal components. ("expansion is external")

Professional users also want to burn media (videos, photos, etc) to DVDs and Blu Rays. Now, on top of a ~$3000+ machine, they have to purchase an additional external drive just to do that. Apple is not gonna undercut the price of the high end ridiculously priced 15" rMBP. ($2799)

Don't get me started on the internal storage. WHY can Pros NOT expand the internal storage? Yes, there are external drives, but when it comes down to it, it's yet ANOTHER external expansion box, cluttering an already cluttered desk.
Buy an iMac then you'll have a neat desk.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 07:27 PM   #6
subsonix
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FWIW, intel have similar visions for the future of data centers.

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...100gbps-links/

Things change fast in the computer industry.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 07:41 PM   #7
Larry-K
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Originally Posted by MacVidCards View Post
There really isn't an argument. Apple and anyone with eyes knows this is Apple's attempt to gracefully exit the serious market and move into the Mickey Mouse/ "I'm a Director because I make wedding & graduation videos" market.

The serious folk need power with no compromises or middle man adapters. They want software that doesn't have excuses or silly limits. "What do you mean you need multi cam support? Just shoot with fewer cameras, see we SAVED you money !!!"

The wedding video guys are satisfied with a few sparkle dazzle spinning stars transitions and....a computer in a can.

Yes, it would seem most of Apple's shills have been posting all sorts of glowing comments.
Well if "Pros" buy it and use it, it's a success, if they don't it's not. Seems pretty simple to me.

I wouldn't have ever even thought of wedding video editors, but, sure, they can be Pros.

Frankly, I find video editing the dullest thing to do, on the planet, but there are plenty of "Pros" doing it.

If you're so serious about having all the power and none of the limitations, you moved on from Apple a long time ago. Nobody with those needs would wait three years for a new machine.

I haven't seen the machine up close. The guy using Mari said it was very good, I'll defer to him for the moment, but I'll make my own decision apart from the cacophony of vitriol surrounding the announcement.

If you're a "Real Pro" you have to make up your own mind on business decisions all the time. This is just one more.

At least you're not stuck with a consumer grade monitor permanently attached, that's one small blessing.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 07:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timehacker11 View Post
"Pro's", aka Professionals, do NOT want external expansion boxes cluttering their desk
Apparently you've never seen a pro at work. If you don't use redundant storage (usually external) then you're asking for trouble.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 07:57 PM   #9
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Oh yes they do!!! Read these forums and you'll see!!
No they don't!!!

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Originally Posted by NT1440 View Post
Apparently you've never seen a pro at work. If you don't use redundant storage (usually external) then you're asking for trouble.
That's for back up and that be done on one (two if you rotate it) external HD via Time Machine. Heck you can use a RAID 1 external and have redundancy all in one HD enclosure. If you're using like 5 external HDs for back ups, then I guess this is no issue for you.

Yea you can use externals for main storage, but having lots of externals laying around can get cluttery. With six thunderbolt ports, that can ad up fast. Plus each port can be daisy chained so it could go even more.

I rather have main storage be inside and back up be external. Or backup to a server. With the new Mac Pro, things will get cluttery which goes against the whole "Apple thing." Think the iMac. The iMac is used by pros, and it's a minimal set up.

Don't assume that all pros use all externals for everything.

And that's the only gripe about the new Mac Pro...you can't change anything. I'm not sure about RAM, but the graphics I don't believe can be changed out. Stupid for a pro machine. The HDs connect via PCIe, I'm not sure about that. If you can't change out those, then Apple has built an amazing yet crippled machine.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 08:40 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by tech4all View Post
No they don't!!!
And that's the only gripe about the new Mac Pro...you can't change anything. I'm not sure about RAM, but the graphics I don't believe can be changed out. Stupid for a pro machine. The HDs connect via PCIe, I'm not sure about that. If you can't change out those, then Apple has built an amazing yet crippled machine.
I'm going to be cautiously optimistic about the upgrade potential of the new Mac Pro. Looking at the demo on Apple's site, it seems to me that things are fairly accessible and bolted in, rather than soldered. Memory and hard drive definitely look like an easy upgrade. The processors on current gen MacPros are technically replaceable though few people do it b/c its a major PITA. This one looks like it may actually be easier. Who knows about the graphics cards, since they are definitely a specialized design for the form factor, but I think it would be foolish of them to not offer some kind of upgrade path. Who knows? Apple has certainly been foolish about these things in the past but we can always hope.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 08:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ABCDEF-Hex View Post
Buy an iMac then you'll have a neat desk.
And a computer I cannot upgrade.

For the same price as the iMac, I can get something that has double the power AND can be upgraded overtime meaning that I'll always get the latest parts. Once you get the iMac, your screwed into purchasing another $1299+ computer in a few years when you could have just spent $100 - $350 on a new graphics card / processor.

And don't say "just get it because it's an iMac." iMacs use the same damn parts as other computers, and probably cost a whole lot less for Apple to purchase due to bulk purchasing, meaning Apple makes hand over fist money by screwing their customers into purchasing non-upgradable computers.

They're doing the same with the Mac Pro. Apple doesn't want pros upgrading internal parts because they won't have to buy thunderbolt to do so. Thunderbolt is even more money into Apple's pocket. Why do you think there's six thunderbolt ports? That's an extra $234 JUST in thunderbolt cables.

Last edited by maflynn; Jun 23, 2013 at 06:32 AM. Reason: removed insults
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 09:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by MacVidCards View Post
There really isn't an argument. Apple and anyone with eyes knows this is Apple's attempt to gracefully exit the serious market and move into the Mickey Mouse/ "I'm a Director because I make wedding & graduation videos" market.

The serious folk need power with no compromises or middle man adapters.

The wedding video guys are satisfied with a few sparkle dazzle spinning stars transitions and....a computer in a can.




Yes, it would seem most of Apple's shills have been posting all sorts of glowing comments.
I know one of those so called Mickey Mouse directors who makes wedding videos who bought one of your cards. I'm sure he"ll be pleased to hear you call him that. I think your scared of the new Mac Pro. Otherwise you wouldn't be spouting off so much about it.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 10:05 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by dmax35 View Post
. I think your scared of the new Mac Pro. Otherwise you wouldn't be spouting off so much about it.
He's not the only one.

In fact, you are in the minority.

Last edited by maflynn; Jun 23, 2013 at 06:33 AM. Reason: removed insults from quote
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 10:17 PM   #14
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Don't buy an R2D2 pro. Problem solved. Good lord, do you people not know this company? A huge majority of Apple products have not been upgradeable going on 10+ years now, it was going to make it to the "Pro" line eventually especially with their modern focus on controlling all the hardware. If you can't handle that then get a PC or an older Mac Pro. You can be a professional without using a Mac.
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Old Jun 22, 2013, 10:43 PM   #15
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No they don't!!!

That's for back up and that be done on one (two if you rotate it) external HD via Time Machine. Heck you can use a RAID 1 external and have redundancy all in one HD enclosure. If you're using like 5 external HDs for back ups, then I guess this is no issue for you.
That's not necessarily true. While it's certainly used for redundancy (hence why RAID 5 is so popular), it's just as much about performance.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 01:10 AM   #16
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This would be fun to watch if it wasn't so depressing.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 01:39 AM   #17
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I put this on the other MacPro thread...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...7&postcount=58

The lack of slots and internal drives aren't an issue because we've been using chassis and external and network storage for around 10 years. Or almost 10 years. After about 35 years in the biz it gets a bit foggy sometimes...

I'll also add that as a rule burning copies of the work isn't what we do most of the time. In fact in most of the big houses it's verbotten to take the work product out unless it's authorized. We do burn somethings from time to time for some to proof but these days we can proof in other ways and if something is going into production we certainly aren't burning it to a disk for a master from the workstation.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 01:44 AM   #18
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Dear OP,

Some professionals require nothing more than a 486 for their daily job tasks. The "Pro" in Mac Pro is purely marketing.

Relax and chill ^^ While I think PCIe slots and internal drives beat having a bunch of external boxes and dongles, it is what it is. Unfortunately, I doubt Apple would "see the light" if the new Mac Pro had poor sales, they'd just use that as an excuse to stop selling the dang thing altogether xD

I doubt Apple was targeting anyone in particular with the new Mac Pro though! It would be an excellent machine for a lot of people. Granted, I think it's silly that they made it so small you can't jam dual xeon chips inside. Oh well.

I'll join into the broken record crowd that keeps dreaming and wishing for a mid-end mac tower with an i7 and expansion. You know how Apple could make a lot of us extremely happy? If they licensed their firmware to a motherboard manufacturer like Asus or Gigabyte and sold a special OS X motherboard.

I'd be all over that. A simple ATX board that can be stuck inside of anything and easily/legally run OS X!
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 02:00 AM   #19
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You know how Apple could make a lot of us extremely happy? If they licensed their firmware to a motherboard manufacturer like Asus or Gigabyte and sold a special OS X motherboard.
Ask Steve Kahng how that worked out last time...
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 04:17 AM   #20
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Ask Steve Kahng how that worked out last time...
Getting $100 million in Apple stock at $4.80 per share?
Let see.....
$100,000,000 / $4.80 = 20,833,333 shares
AAPL at $413.50

It worked out (to a potential) $8.6 billion.

Worked out pretty well I would say.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 05:10 AM   #21
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Yeah your right, 7 Teraflops, this is just a new Mac mini.

External expansion is much better than internal. With my old pro pulling it out on to the desk and basically taking the whole thing apart to swap out one drive was a pain. Now I can store the mac pro out of sight and just have my hard drive bay on desk. win.

Also may I direct you to the news post: http://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/14/...ant-metal-box/
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 05:11 AM   #22
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Selling a special run of ATX boards (or ****, Apple could just sell the boards themselves) is not the same as giving free reign to other manufacturers to make computers.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 05:25 AM   #23
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No Pci slot was a punch in the gut for me. Good bandwith is now under lock and key. Storage i can deal with, Mac Pro 1,1 is a very elegant solution and will be the server.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 05:28 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by timehacker11 View Post
I can't understand why Apple is calling a non-expandable, no disc drive machine a "Pro" machine.

"Pro's", aka Professionals, do NOT want external expansion boxes cluttering their desk just because Apple deems it necessary to not allow people to expand it's internal components. ("expansion is external")

Professional users also want to burn media (videos, photos, etc) to DVDs and Blu Rays. Now, on top of a ~$3000+ machine, they have to purchase an additional external drive just to do that. Apple is not gonna undercut the price of the high end ridiculously priced 15" rMBP. ($2799)

Don't get me started on the internal storage. WHY can Pros NOT expand the internal storage? Yes, there are external drives, but when it comes down to it, it's yet ANOTHER external expansion box, cluttering an already cluttered desk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by echoout View Post
Oh yes they do!!! Read these forums and you'll see!!
Yup! They sure do. External media rocks! It can go mobile from station to station or from location to location. Here, check this out:



Almost every storage device they use is external. External devices make so much more sense to me. And unless you're silly in your consumerism at very very little added cost.


.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 05:39 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by timehacker11 View Post
I can't understand why Apple is calling a non-expandable, no disc drive machine a "Pro" machine.
A “Pro" machine is a machine which allows professional work. The new MP allows professional work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timehacker11 View Post
"Pro's", aka Professionals, do NOT want external expansion boxes cluttering their desk just because Apple deems it necessary to not allow people to expand it's internal components. ("expansion is external")
No one said, that the external components must be on your desk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timehacker11 View Post
Professional users also want to burn media (videos, photos, etc) to DVDs and Blu Rays.
They can do this with external burners. One advantage is, that you can use such external devices on different machines (Linux, Mac, Windows).

Quote:
Originally Posted by timehacker11 View Post
Now, on top of a ~$3000+ machine, they have to purchase an additional external drive just to do that.
Even if such a burner costs 300 US$, it is no problem for the professional market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timehacker11 View Post
Don't get me started on the internal storage. WHY can Pros NOT expand the internal storage? Yes, there are external drives, but when it comes down to it, it's yet ANOTHER external expansion box, cluttering an already cluttered desk.
Apple is not responsible for your cluttered desk. You are responsible for your desk.
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