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Old Jun 23, 2013, 09:16 PM   #1
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Colorado Transgender First-grader Coy Mathis Wins Civil Rights Case

Six year old Transgender girl gets to use the girls bathroom like anyone else now.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...il-rights-case

Wonder how many parents will think is a reason good enough to pull their kids from that school?
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 09:36 PM   #2
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My wife teaches special needs and had a student exactly like this and there hasn't been a peep from anyone about it. No kids or parents give a crap about it just as I think it should be.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 11:19 PM   #3
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I'm not sure I understand how a 6y/o can be transgender
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 11:23 PM   #4
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I'm not sure I understand how a 6y/o can be transgender
When I first heard about this several months ago, the parents said that the "boy" has always wanted to wear girls clothes and play with girls toys. They just let it happen since it was what the "boy" wanted.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 12:18 AM   #5
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Kathryn Mathis, Coy's mother, said in a statement. "All we ever wanted was for Coy's school to treat her the same as other little girls. We are extremely happy that she now will be treated equally.
How about the parents teach their child how to deal with being different than most and embrace it, instead of trying to force others not to notice the obvious.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 12:55 AM   #6
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When I first heard about this several months ago, the parents said that the "boy" has always wanted to wear girls clothes and play with girls toys. They just let it happen since it was what the "boy" wanted.
When I was in first grade I wanted to a lot of things that were not right.

This kid is going to grow with serious mental issues and the parents are 100% to blame.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 03:17 AM   #7
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When I was in first grade I wanted to a lot of things that were not right.

This kid is going to grow with serious mental issues and the parents are 100% to blame.
Not right? Why? Because society continues to perpetuate the archaic notion that men and women must behave differently and like different things?
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 03:26 AM   #8
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I'm all up for transgender rights but this is downright bizarre. Surely six year olds should be more concerned over Pokemon cards or whatever than their gender.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 09:47 AM   #9
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When I was in first grade I wanted to a lot of things that were not right.

This kid is going to grow with serious mental issues and the parents are 100% to blame.
Whole you are right on the fact he will have serious mental issues it is not going to be because of the parents. It will be because he is transgendered and issues that come up from that.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 09:59 AM   #10
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Not right? Why? Because society continues to perpetuate the archaic notion that men and women must behave differently and like different things?
You cannot seriously believe that society is the reason for that way of thinking?

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Originally Posted by lostngone View Post
When I was in first grade I wanted to a lot of things that were not right.

This kid is going to grow with serious mental issues and the parents are 100% to blame.
Exactly. But "society" will make the them out to be a heroes.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 10:29 AM   #11
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You cannot seriously believe that society is the reason for that way of thinking?
If you're trying to say its biological, let me point out that exactly what things people like has changed. For instance the color pink... Nowadays people consider it intensely feminine. Yet up until the mid twentieth century it was it was deemed a masculine color! Furthermore men in some ancient and even modern cultures wore/wear makeup all the time.

I would definitely argue that most human behavior is driven by social pressures.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 10:35 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by sviato View Post
I'm not sure I understand how a 6y/o can be transgender
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostngone View Post
When I was in first grade I wanted to a lot of things that were not right.
This kid is going to grow with serious mental issues and the parents are 100% to blame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadbloc View Post
I'm all up for transgender rights but this is downright bizarre. Surely six year olds should be more concerned over Pokemon cards or whatever than their gender.
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Originally Posted by SprSynJn View Post
Exactly. But "society" will make the them out to be a heroes.
PRSI denizens, I'm surprised at you. Educate yourselves...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_youth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
"In most cases of gender identity disorder (GID), the condition is often apparent in early childhood, when such a child may express behavior incongruent with and dissatisfaction related to his, or her assigned gender. However, many of these children experience rejection as a result of their differences and quickly attempt to repress them. Therefore, people who see these children regularly may be unaware that they are unhappy as members of their assigned gender.

According to the DSM-IV, most children diagnosed with gender identity disorder will establish an identity as a member of their assigned sex in adolescence or adulthood."
This is a real thing. It's defined in DSM-IV. This is not a fad for this child; it's her identity, just as your gender is your identity. Shame on you.

And Roadbloc:
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Originally Posted by roadbloc View Post
I'm all up for transgender rights but this is downright bizarre. Surely six year olds should be more concerned over Pokemon cards or whatever than their gender.
Imagine if at 6 years old someone told you you now had to act like a girl for the rest of your life, and if you acted like a boy you'd be punished by society and were a freak. Would you be "concerned with your gender"? OF COURSE! It's only because your gender and you sex matched up that you never even thought about it....but gender was a BIG part of your childhood, of anyone's childhood.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 10:45 AM   #13
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If you're trying to say its biological, let me point out that exactly what things people like has changed. For instance the color pink... Nowadays people consider it intensely feminine. Yet up until the mid twentieth century it was it was deemed a masculine color! Furthermore men in some ancient and even modern cultures wore/wear makeup all the time.

I would definitely argue that most personal behaviors are driven by social pressures.
I can't argue your first point, but after dealing with little kids for the last five years, I can tell you that what a child likes is more dependent on their sex than what you might think. If that sentence makes any sense.

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Originally Posted by lannister80 View Post
PRSI denizens, I'm surprised at you. Educate yourselves...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_youth



This is a real thing. It's defined in DSM-IV. This is not a fad for this child; it's her identity, just as your gender is your identity. Shame on you.
Scientists also tell us that obesity is a disease. Shame on you for believing everything your told.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 10:46 AM   #14
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I just wonder why the rights of this child seem to supersede the rights of the girls in his class...

What happens in Highschool, or even say 3rd grade, when the girls don't feel comfortable with a boy in the girls bathroom. I suppose they're SOL at that point?

Maybe I should refer to him as a female, but at the moment he's both genetically and anatomically male.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 10:51 AM   #15
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I can't argue your first point, but after dealing with little kids for the last five years, I can tell you that what a child likes is more dependent on their sex than what you might think. If that sentence makes any sense.
I still don't think that days anything about biology. The fact of the matter is we begin pushing gender roles onto our children from the moment they are born. Putting little girls in dresses, giving them dolls to play with, etc.

Now here is a question: why is it considered more acceptable for a girl to act boyish (eg. Tomboy) than the other way around?
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:01 AM   #16
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Now here is a question: why is it considered more acceptable for a girl to act boyish (eg. Tomboy) than the other way around?
I don't think anyone cares that the girl is acting like a tom boy. Probably, because she's not peeing standing up in the boys room. I think there are serious issues to consider here, but a bathroom should be the one place where gender is defined by what you carry between your legs.

I say that with all due respect and understanding for the plight of the transgender population, but if you're a boy, use the boys room. If you are a girl, use the girls room. It shouldn't matter how much you feel like the other gender.

(edit) If necessary, make a single stalled bathroom available for this child when needed if s/he can't go to the same room as the kids who are of his/her actual gender. This is an accomodation situation, and frankly, it may not be possible, but they should try.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:05 AM   #17
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I just wonder why the rights of this child seem to supersede the rights of the girls in his class...

What happens in Highschool, or even say 3rd grade, when the girls don't feel comfortable with a boy in the girls bathroom. I suppose they're SOL at that point?

Maybe I should refer to him as a female, but at the moment he's both genetically and anatomically male.
She's not a boy. She's a girl with a penis. Sex != Gender 100% of the time.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:08 AM   #18
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I don't think anyone cares that the girl is acting like a tom boy. Probably, because she's not peeing standing up in the boys room. I think there are serious issues to consider here, but a bathroom should be the one place where gender is defined by what you carry between your legs.

I say that with all due respect and understanding for the plight of the transgender population, but if you're a boy, use the boys room. If you are a girl, use the girls room. It shouldn't matter how much you feel like the other gender.
I agree, I mean where does it stop? Think about the future, will this kid file a lawsuit to be allowed to hit the showers with the girls in gym-class in Highschool?

I have a lot of sympathy for the things transgendered people deal with on a daily basis. But there is more than just the desires of the child in question that need to be considered here.

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(edit) If necessary, make a single stalled bathroom available for this child when needed if s/he can't go to the same room as the kids who are of his/her actual gender. This is an accomodation situation, and frankly, it may not be possible, but they should try.
This was already tried according to the report I read. The child was allowed to use the private, gender neutral bathroom in the school's office, but that wasn't sufficient for the child (or more likely his parents) so we have arrived at the current situation.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:12 AM   #19
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I agree, I mean where does it stop? Think about the future, will this kid file a lawsuit to be allowed to hit the showers with the girls in gym-class in Highschool?
Why should she not be allowed to? She's a girl, identifies as a girl, lives as a girl. What does some little bit of flesh between the legs matter?

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I have a lot of sympathy for the things transgendered people deal with on a daily basis. But there is more than just the desires of the child in question that need to be considered here.
Let's change that around: "I have a lot of sympathy for the things black people deal with on a daily basis. But there is more than just the desires of the child in question (to be in a desegregated classroom) that need to be considered here."

Sorry, your sense of "icky" does not trump her right to be a girl, as she's obviously genetically programmed to be.

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Scientists also tell us that obesity is a disease. Shame on you for believing everything your told.
Yeah, silly me trusting peer-reviewed, credentialed scientists instead of anon folks on the internet. What was I thinking??

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Now here is a question: why is it considered more acceptable for a girl to act boyish (eg. Tomboy) than the other way around?
Machismo built into our hominid brains.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:22 AM   #20
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She's not a boy. She's a girl with a penis. Sex != Gender 100% of the time.
Oh I agree, but when it comes to a genetic and anatomic male (in other words, a male) forcing his way into the girls room with no respect or consideration for the other girls in his class, it becomes clear that the most important issue is sex rather than this child's self perceived gender.

I have absolutely no issue with his desire to live as and be referred to as a female. But there are other people's rights that need to be considered here.

What's stopping some pervert from declaring himself a female and suing to be able to use the female locker room at the local municipal pool now that this precedent has been set? That's the issue in my mind.

(And no, I'm not comparing this child to a middle-aged pervert, so don't go there)

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Why should she not be allowed to? She's a girl, identifies as a girl, lives as a girl. What does some little bit of flesh between the legs matter?
Because there will almost certainly be teenage girls who will feel this is a violation of their privacy, and who may even feel sexually violated by being exposed to someone of the opposite sex in such a way. In this particular situation, it's not all about the transgendered child. This is a big problem with these arguments, many only want to consider what the transgender (or whoever else) person wants.


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Let's change that around: "I have a lot of sympathy for the things black people deal with on a daily basis. But there is more than just the desires of the child in question (to be in a desegregated classroom) that need to be considered here."
False equivalence fallacy. Racial integration didn't require female students to allow male students to be present in situations where they have to expose their bodies in ways that might make them extremely uncomfortable.

This isn't a case of the transgendered student being forced out of public school and told to go to a school for transgendered students, so the comparison fails.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:22 AM   #21
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Why should she not be allowed to? She's a girl, identifies as a girl, lives as a girl. What does some little bit of flesh between the legs matter?
If it doesn't matter, then use the restroom that is defined by the flesh between your legs.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:24 AM   #22
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Yeah, silly me trusting peer-reviewed, credentialed scientists instead of anon folks on the internet. What was I thinking??
A kid who cannot even stay out at night, and still probably believes in Santa Clause, want to change sex. Yep, sounds like this kid knows exactly what he wants. And hey! Scientists are backing it, so it must be 100% correct. No question! A sound plan if you ask me. My five year old niece told me the other day she wants to marry a cat. Looks like I better get going on getting a law passed before she changes her mind.

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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:27 AM   #23
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Oh I agree, but when it comes to a genetic and anatomic male (in other words, a male) forcing his way into the girls room with no respect or consideration for the other girls in his class, it becomes clear that the most important issue is sex rather than this child's self perceived gender.
The only thing that matters is gender, not genetic or anatomical sex, especially in children. There is clearly no kink/sexual agenda here. How can you say that the child's gender is not the important issue? If it had to do with physical sex, she would be relegated to the boy's washroom.


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I have absolutely no issue with his desire to live as and be referred to as a female. But there are other people's rights that need to be considered here.
Swap that around a bit: "I have absolutely no issue with a black child's desire to live like a white child, using the same bathrooms and water-fountains. But there are other people's rights that need to be considered here."

No, they really don't need to be considered. Your "ick" does not trump her identity.

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If it doesn't matter, then use the restroom that is defined by the flesh between your legs.
That's 100% backwards. The bit of flesh doesn't matter, it's the identity that does. She's a girl, and girls use the girls' bathroom. It's really that simple.

What if I told you today that you were originally a girl at birth and they did gender reassignment surgery for one reason or another so you're not "really" a male, and you must use the girls' bathroom from today forward. How would you feel?
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:27 AM   #24
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She's not a boy. She's a girl with a penis. Sex != Gender 100% of the time.
Sex != gender but at the same time... gender identity != gender. The only thing that is gender is gender, and that's defined by what you are at a chromosomal level until such time as you have a surgery, and even then, I think you're still are what you are.

(Edit) Out of curiosity, why can't this little boy use the boy's room? I understand that he identifies more with girls, but he's not one. Doesn't that matter? Don't the parents of the little girls have a right to know their children are going to a school where boys and girls don't have contact of an intimate nature.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:28 AM   #25
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Swap that around a bit: "I have absolutely no issue with a black child's desire to live like a white child, using the same bathrooms and water-fountains. But there are other people's rights that need to be considered here."

No, they really don't need to be considered. Your "ick" does not trump her identity.
See my post above, this is a false equivalence.

And physical sex absolutely does come into play when toileting and group showering are to be considered. As do the rights and desires of the other children involved.
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