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Old Jun 24, 2013, 09:16 PM   #1
splitpea
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IRS audited liberal groups too

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/po...ralgroups.html

Sounds like it was in fact a broader sweep looking at abuse of tax-exempt status by political groups in general.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 09:25 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by splitpea View Post
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/po...ralgroups.html

Sounds like it was in fact a broader sweep looking at abuse of tax-exempt status by political groups in general.
Ah damn there goes the GOP case that it was Obama doing. The IRS was clearly going after groups trying to dodge the law.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 10:37 PM   #3
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I think it was more that they were trying to determine which groups was using its non profits for primarily political purposes - which is the darn problem the IR has when dealing with certain non-profits.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 10:43 PM   #4
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Fair Tax.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 12:11 AM   #5
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Fair Tax.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 12:14 AM   #6
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None of the facts matter to the CONservatives who still believe that IRS scrutiny is a conspiracy against CONservative groups.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 12:33 AM   #7
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The IRS has scrapped use of the "be on the lookout" (BOLO) lists, newly appointed IRS chief Daniel Werfel said in a conference call with reporters. His disclosure about the breadth of the lists added a new twist to a six-week-old controversy that has embarrassed the Obama administration, forced the exit of several IRS officials and triggered probes by the FBI and Congress.

"We did determine and discover there are other BOLO lists in place," Werfel said on the call. "There was a wide ranging set of categories and cases that spanned a broad spectrum."

A top Democrat on the Ways and Means Committee, Sander Levin, said the word "progressive" was on one of the lists, which agency officials have said they used to flag applications for potential scrutiny.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95N18A20130624

No wonder there is so much anger over this. The IRS was doing its job and auditing political groups demanding tax-exempt status.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 03:16 AM   #8
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Even more reason to abolish the IRS and the tax code.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 08:34 AM   #9
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Even more reason to abolish the IRS and the tax code.
I'm sorry, but that's just silly. Can you get your head out of your ideology and tell me how this country is supposed to work without the IRS? I doubt it.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 10:24 AM   #10
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I'm sorry, but that's just silly. Can you get your head out of your ideology and tell me how this country is supposed to work without the IRS? I doubt it.

You clearly haven't been paying attention. All we need to do is go to a flat tax, use postcards to file returns and eliminate the IRS because people will no longer cheat on their taxes and we can trust all to report the correct amounts.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 10:27 AM   #11
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You clearly haven't been paying attention. All we need to do is go to a flat tax, use postcards to file returns and eliminate the IRS because people will no longer cheat on their taxes and we can trust all to report the correct amounts.
Many states have "flat" taxes and rely upon the IRS to collect the data necessary to collect the proper taxes. Eliminate the IRS, and you basically give free reign to tax cheats to cheat, and you give corporations the power to really cheat.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 10:50 AM   #12
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Many states have "flat" taxes and rely upon the IRS to collect the data necessary to collect the proper taxes. Eliminate the IRS, and you basically give free reign to tax cheats to cheat, and you give corporations the power to really cheat.
I get the impression that's what rdowns was saying. Unfortunately, the internet serves as an excellent high-pass filter for irony. ;-)
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 12:00 PM   #13
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Many states have "flat" taxes and rely upon the IRS to collect the data necessary to collect the proper taxes. Eliminate the IRS, and you basically give free reign to tax cheats to cheat, and you give corporations the power to really cheat.
And we get to trust them with handling a part of our healthcare. Doesn't this just give us all a warm fuzzy feeling
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 05:21 PM   #14
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No wonder there is so much anger over this. The IRS was doing its job and auditing political groups demanding tax-exempt status.
Oh, but do you think the media are going to pick up on this? No. Almost all the articles I've seen from the supposedly liberal media are still slanted in the direction of, "Oh, the poor widdle tea parties are being picked on!"

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And we get to trust them with handling a part of our healthcare. Doesn't this just give us all a warm fuzzy feeling
Hey, every time I get a bill from my health insurer, I get a warm wet feeling down my pants leg.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 04:53 PM   #15
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How the hell does Issa get away with this ****?


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The Treasury inspector general (IG) whose report helped drive the IRS targeting controversy says it limited its examination to conservative groups because of a request from House Republicans.

A spokesman for Russell George, Treasury’s inspector general for tax administration, said they were asked by House Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) “to narrowly focus on Tea Party organizations.”

The inspector general’s audit found that groups seeking tax-exempt status with “Tea Party” and “patriots” in their name did receive extra attention from the IRS, with some facing years of delay and inappropriate questions from the agency.

But top congressional Democrats have wielded new information from the IRS this week that liberal groups were also flagged for extra attention on the sorts of “be on the lookout” lists (BOLOs) that also tripped up conservative groups.

The spokesman for the Treasury inspector general noted their audit acknowledged there were other watch lists. But the spokesman added: "We did not review the use, disposition, purpose or content of the other BOLOs. That was outside the scope of our audit.”
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 06:07 PM   #16
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How the hell does Issa get away with this ****?
Hmm. So Issa orders an IRS audit that only focuses on activities relating to groups with "Tea Party" in their names, in order to accuse the IRS of only focusing on groups with "Tea Party" in their name. In other news, 100% of people who brush their teeth, brush their teeth.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 09:32 PM   #17
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Proof that we need SERIOUS income tax reform. Given what I've said is wrong with the current American income tax code based on Title 26, the Internal Revenue Code:

1. 30,000 tax lobbyists--HALF the lobbyists in Washington, DC--fighting for every scrap of a tax loophole. And you get political corruption on a huge scale over this.
2. The result is a tax code of the Internal Revenue Code plus additional rulings over 70,000 pages long so complex that it makes James Joyce's "Ulysses" easy to read in comparison. Even the IRS can't figure out much of the tax code!
3. The sheer complexity means exorbitant yearly compliance costs, estimated by some economists to exceed US$430 BILLION per year (and climbing fast in each subsequent year).
4. It also encourages the outsourcing of millions of jobs, thousands of factories, and hundreds of corporate headquarters for tax avoidance reasons.
5. It results in (by some estimates) around US$15 TRILLION on American-owned liquid assets sitting in "offshore financial centers" and other foreign banks for tax avoidance reasons (care to explain all those "banks" in the Cayman Islands, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands, and so on?).
6. Government uses the tax code as a political instrument to favor or punish political constituencies as little as ONE taxpaying entity.
7. Because the IRS needs to know intimate details of personal and business financial records in tax return filings, there are potentially serious issues with invasion of privacy.
8. The IRS assumes you're guilty of tax evasion, and you end up having less rights than most common criminals!

The Founding Fathers were not in favor of the income tax for many of the same reasons I cited above. Maybe we should look at alternatives such as FairTax (H.R. 25/S. 122--yes, it's an actual bill in Congress).
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:33 AM   #18
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The vanishing IRS scandal

The scandal here is how Darrell Issa is still committee chair and still in a position to cook up one non-scandal after another.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...ors_picks=true


Quote:
Now comes another revelation relevant to Issa’s investigation: I.R.S. employees in Cincinnati also targeted applications from liberal groups for further scrutiny, and they did it for the same reason they singled out conservative groups: a fear that such organizations might turn out to be primarily political rather than philanthropic. (Many political organizations are not eligible for tax-exempt status.) Specifically, the “Be On the Lookout” memos that I.R.S. managers sent to workers in the tax-exempt division instructed them to look carefully at groups with the word “progressive” in their names. “Common thread is the word ‘progressive,’ ” the memo said. “Activities appear to lean toward a new political party. Activities are partisan and appear as anti-Republican.”

The release of the internal I.R.S. documents came as the agency’s new acting head, Danny Werfel, confirmed in a conference call with reporters that the agency’s screening of groups suspected as being political was broader than previously thought, and crossed the political spectrum. In addition to “Tea Party” and “progressive,” the I.R.S. investigators screened for another dozen or so terms. According to lists released by Democrats in Congress, these included “Medical Marijuana,” “Occupied Territory Advocacy,” “Green Energy Organizations,” and “Healthcare legislation.”
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:29 PM   #19
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The scandal here is how Darrell Issa is still committee chair and still in a position to cook up one non-scandal after another.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...ors_picks=true
Sure they singled out liberal groups too but when you single out 296 conservative groups compared to 6 liberal groups that is pretty lopsided isn't it? Well at least using normal math it is. I guess maybe using liberal math it is even so maybe this is a non issue.

Quote:
Refuting Democratic suggestions that progressive groups were also swept up in the IRS probe of the tax status of Tea Party organizations, the Treasury Department's inspector general has revealed that just six progressive groups were targeted compared to 292 conservative groups.

In a letter to congressional Democrats, the inspector general also said that 100 percent of Tea Party groups seeking special tax status were put under IRS review, while only 30 percent of the progressive groups felt the same pressure.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2532456
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:57 PM   #20
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Fair Tax.
Fair to whom?

Wanna shed some details or do we take a two-word response as some sort of gospel that, as we all know, ends up as being yet another "do as I say and not as I do" ersatz sort of leadership that nobody needs on this planet anymore...

Ranks right up there with corporate welfare being handed out to corporations offshoring jobs...
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:10 PM   #21
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Sure they singled out liberal groups too but when you single out 296 conservative groups compared to 6 liberal groups that is pretty lopsided isn't it? Well at least using normal math it is.
Using normal math, one would first need to know the total application rate of each category.

According to your link:
The letter from the Treasury Department Inspector General for Tax Administration revealed that there just weren't many progressive groups who even sought special tax exempt status. A total of 20 sought it, and six were probed. All 292 Tea Party groups, meanwhile, were part of the IRS witchhunt.
So 20 "progressive" groups seeking special tax status, vs. 292 "tea party" groups.

Using percentages seems like a better way to "do the math". Except it fails to take into account this:
The Treasury inspector general (IG) whose report helped drive the IRS targeting controversy says it limited its examination to conservative groups because of a request from House Republicans.

A spokesman for Russell George, Treasury’s inspector general for tax administration, said they were asked by House Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) “to narrowly focus on Tea Party organizations.”
So it may be that 30% of each category were being checked, until someone asked the IRS “to narrowly focus on Tea Party organizations.”
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:52 PM   #22
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Fair to whom?

Wanna shed some details or do we take a two-word response as some sort of gospel that, as we all know, ends up as being yet another "do as I say and not as I do" ersatz sort of leadership that nobody needs on this planet anymore...

Ranks right up there with corporate welfare being handed out to corporations offshoring jobs...
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...owFairTaxWorks
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:19 AM   #23
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I am sure this has been adressed multiple times against anyone who trys to argue the "fair tax" but the so called "fair tax" is anything but far.

It is a tax increase on anyone but the mega rich. For the mega rich it is a huge tax cut.
Problem with the "fair tax" is it does not take in account for the fact that cost of living is not linear. It is a logimetric function. Fair tax shift the tax burden even more on the poor than it really is. The fair tax is a very regressive tax.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:20 AM   #24
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I am sure this has been adressed multiple times against anyone who trys to argue the "fair tax" but the so called "fair tax" is anything but far.

It is a tax increase on anyone but the mega rich. For the mega rich it is a huge tax cut.
Problem with the "fair tax" is it does not take in account for the fact that cost of living is not linear. It is a logimetric function. Fair tax shift the tax burden even more on the poor than it really is. The fair tax is a very regressive tax.
It's clear you don't know what you're typing about. Read up on it and come back. You're welcome.

Fair doesn't mean equal.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 01:08 AM   #25
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Nor does it mean fair. Make your own argument.
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