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Old Jun 25, 2013, 05:37 PM   #1
DakotaGuy
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Woman attacked in home caught on nanny cam

Article:

http://gawker.com/horrific-footage-o...t-on-576207527

Direct YouTube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=dvvHMM6TF50

I thought this was an interesting story because many have made the statement that you don't need to own a gun for self defense because the police will protect you. Where were the police when this man broke down her door and attacked her? What if he would have decided to hurt the child? I don't know how long it took him to get through the door, but I'm sure she could have had some time to prepare if she had a good solid door.

Anyhow I can understand a person who doesn't want to own a gun, but after watching this happen I don't see how people can criticize those who choose to have a gun in their house for self defense.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 05:56 PM   #2
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Because guns are not safe, this might have helped the woman defend herself but history has proven that guns can create an unsafe environment inside the home.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 06:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by aerok View Post
Because guns are not safe, this might have helped the woman defend herself but history has proven that guns can create an unsafe environment inside the home.
Guns are completely safe if the owner is responsible, properly trained and follows all safety guidelines. The problem is that some gun owners don't treat the firearm with the respect it deserves. I have learned 1) You ALWAYS check to make sure the chamber is clear before you handle it even if you KNOW it's clear. 2) Even after you check to make sure it is clear you still handle it like it is loaded and never ever point it at yourself or another person. I never ever leave my rifle loaded because it only takes a couple of seconds to put in a magazine if I needed to defend myself. People who leave loaded guns lying around (or even unloaded for that matter) are asking for trouble. Last, even though I live by myself I still store my rifle unloaded in a safe out of reach and sight location.

It is not difficult to be a safe gun owner, however there are many that take shortcuts and don't seem to respect the power of the firearm.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 06:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
Guns are completely safe if the owner is responsible, properly trained and follows all safety guidelines. The problem is that many gun owners don't treat the firearm with the respect it deserves.
Bold for emphasis. There is your problem right there.

Quote:
I have learned 1) You ALWAYS check to make sure the chamber is clear before you handle it even if you KNOW it's clear. 2) Even after you check to make sure it is clear you still handle it like it is loaded and never ever point it at yourself or another person. I never ever leave my rifle loaded because it only takes a couple of seconds to put in a magazine if I needed to defend myself.
It's good that you have learned that. Again, bold for emphasis.

Quote:
People who leave loaded guns lying around (or even unloaded for that matter) are asking for trouble. Last, even though I live by myself I still store my rifle unloaded in a safe out of reach and sight location.
Again, bold for emphasis. At this point, I'd consider yourself to be responsible. But as we all know, that only counts for you, and not others. And unfortunately, you may be in the minority.

Quote:
It is not difficult to be a safe gun owner, however there are many that take shortcuts and don't seem to respect the power of the firearm.
Agreed. and again, bold for emphasis. Until those others start to respect it as well as the responsibility they must have with owning one, people are going to continue to wind up hurt or with a major case of dead.

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Old Jun 25, 2013, 06:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
Guns are completely safe if the owner is responsible, properly trained and follows all safety guidelines. The problem is that some gun owners don't treat the firearm with the respect it deserves. I have learned 1) You ALWAYS check to make sure the chamber is clear before you handle it even if you KNOW it's clear. 2) Even after you check to make sure it is clear you still handle it like it is loaded and never ever point it at yourself or another person. I never ever leave my rifle loaded because it only takes a couple of seconds to put in a magazine if I needed to defend myself. People who leave loaded guns lying around (or even unloaded for that matter) are asking for trouble. Last, even though I live by myself I still store my rifle unloaded in a safe out of reach and sight location.

It is not difficult to be a safe gun owner, however there are many that take shortcuts and don't seem to respect the power of the firearm.
Great insight. Also some states have laws regarding locks around guns. In reality you should never store a gun anywhere without a lock. Doesn't need to be a safe, but at least a lock.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 06:58 PM   #6
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Yeah but this guy could have also gotten the gun away from her and shot her and the baby dead. We'll never know. All we know is one thing: find this animal and lock him away for the rest of his life. Make sure the other prisoners get some computer time to watch this video and prepare a nice welcome to prison party for him.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
Yeah but this guy could have also gotten the gun away from her and shot her and the baby dead. We'll never know. All we know is one thing: find this animal and lock him away for the rest of his life. Make sure the other prisoners get some computer time to watch this video and prepare a nice welcome to prison party for him.
If you shoot someone properly they don't get back up, ever.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
Guns are completely safe if the owner is responsible, properly trained and follows all safety guidelines. The problem is that some gun owners don't treat the firearm with the respect it deserves. I have learned 1) You ALWAYS check to make sure the chamber is clear before you handle it even if you KNOW it's clear. 2) Even after you check to make sure it is clear you still handle it like it is loaded and never ever point it at yourself or another person. I never ever leave my rifle loaded because it only takes a couple of seconds to put in a magazine if I needed to defend myself. People who leave loaded guns lying around (or even unloaded for that matter) are asking for trouble. Last, even though I live by myself I still store my rifle unloaded in a safe out of reach and sight location.

It is not difficult to be a safe gun owner, however there are many that take shortcuts and don't seem to respect the power of the firearm.
Thank you for posting this. Can I just add the below:

Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot

Know your target

Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:27 PM   #9
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I am not anti gun. I have 2 from my late father in law. The guy kicked the door in and rushed the woman. A gun would have only been helpful if she had it on her hip like a wild west gunslinger. I do not walk around in my house with my 2 guns in holsters waiting for someone to kick down my door.

I have to say it would have been nice if she had a gun stashed in the living room and shot the mo fo when he came down the stairs after robbing the jewelry in her bedroom.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
If you shoot someone properly they don't get back up, ever.
I agree. I am all about gun safety and that we need to do our best to keep guns out of the wrong hands, but I absolutely hate the ridicule that some of the anti-gun crowd gives to us gun owners when we tell them that one reason we own is self defense. They basically believe that you should just "take" whatever is going to happen to you and play the victim. I have no problem if that is what some people want to do, however I will protect myself and my property with a gun. I don't know if a gun would have helped this woman, but if I am ever faced with the same situation I would have my gun in my hand. By the way, I am a registered Democrat so believe it or not there are actually Democrats who are gun owners and support the 2nd Amendment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff... View Post
Thank you for posting this. Can I just add the below:

Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot

Know your target

Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy
Good advice as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
I am not anti gun. I have 2 from my late father in law. The guy kicked the door in and rushed the woman. A gun would have only been helpful if she had it on her hip like a wild west gunslinger. I do not walk around in my house with my 2 guns in holsters waiting for someone to kick down my door.

I have to say it would have been nice if she had a gun stashed in the living room and shot the mo fo when he came down the stairs after robbing the jewelry in her bedroom.
Well I would hope that a person would have a strong enough door (at least I do) that it would take some work to get through. I am not sure what her lock or door situation was like. If someone starts kicking against my door I know where I am running.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
If you shoot someone properly they don't get back up, ever.
So true, I've been handling weapons since I was 8 years old, just turned 40. One thing I was taught by my dad, is that once a weapon is pulled on another human being, you are ready to kill that person. Respect for firearms is crucial.

----------

Worked out better for this homeowner.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...212817131.html
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
Yeah but this guy could have also gotten the gun away from her and shot her and the baby dead. .
She also could have put two in his chest and kept mommy and baby fine.

I'd rather err on the side of my wife being armed.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:42 PM   #13
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She also could have put two his chest and kept mommy and baby fine.

I'd rather err on the side of my wife being armed.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 10:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
Anyhow I can understand a person who doesn't want to own a gun, but after watching this happen I don't see how people can criticize those who choose to have a gun in their house for self defense.
I think few, myself not included, criticize all gun owners for so desiring protection. I believe the full-on anti-gun crowd is in the minority.

I think most, myself included, are okay with a gun in the home for self defense provided the owner is properly trained, tested, stores it correctly, etc.

Many of the pro-gun folks seem to think that any of us who would like to see smart gun control are out to take their guns away or ban them altogether. Not usually the case. It's more that many of us just don't agree with the free-for-all carry-anywhere-and-everywhere always-on-my-hip loaded-in-every-room type of rambo BS. There's a sea of grey in between.

I don't have a gun in my house. I don't know what I would do if someone kicked my door in like that. Fortunately, they have a flight of stairs to come up first, and would have to kick from a small landing. But, with a very inquisitive 14-month old dogging around our house, a gun is the last thing I want around.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 10:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by aerok View Post
Because guns are not safe, this might have helped the woman defend herself but history has proven that guns can create an unsafe environment inside the home.
It is sickening that even after watching people do not see the benefits of gun ownership.

That could have just as easily ended with her getting raped or killed. He is still out there and could attack again.

They said they were installing a security system, what is the average response time for a call out, 5, 10, 15 minutes?
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 11:12 PM   #16
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Hopefully the next house he hits will have an armed home owner to take him down.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 11:19 PM   #17
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So a woman gets brutally attacked and it seems what most people here care about is the gun debate......

I know it happens on both sides. A kid accidentally shoots himself or someone else, people call for more laws.

It's sickening. I'm sorry, but does anyone actually care that she was brutally attacked? From the replies here, doesn't seem like it. More concerned about using this as a means to push your agenda..... I've never been more pissed off with a PRSI thread before.....
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 11:37 PM   #18
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I can't believe that woman was never knocked-out—I've seen UFC fighters KO'd from less.

Neither the video nor the article address how the man entered the house, so perhaps a discussion on locks is needed more than "she could've had time to go get a gun, (unlock it from wherever as SAFE gun owners do), get the ammo (in a separate place as SAFE gun owners do) then stop that guy from hitting her, over and over and over". Yeah, I'm convinced a gun would've stopped that attack.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 12:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by lostngone View Post
It is sickening that even after watching people do not see the benefits of gun ownership.

That could have just as easily ended with her getting raped or killed. He is still out there and could attack again.

They said they were installing a security system, what is the average response time for a call out, 5, 10, 15 minutes?
Sickening? Your opinion is sickening to me, you encourage people to own something designed to kill. That's puke worthy in my opinion.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 12:14 AM   #20
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I can't believe that woman was never knocked-out—I've seen UFC fighters KO'd from less.

Neither the video nor the article address how the man entered the house, so perhaps a discussion on locks is needed more than "she could've had time to go get a gun, (unlock it from wherever as SAFE gun owners do), get the ammo (in a separate place as SAFE gun owners do) then stop that guy from hitting her, over and over and over". Yeah, I'm convinced a gun would've stopped that attack.
I read he kicked the door in. Most house doors can easily be kicked in even with a deadbolt.

Why would she need to unlock a safe and load it? If she has it holstered she could have drawn it in about ~1.5 seconds

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerok View Post
Sickening? Your opinion is sickening to me, you encourage people to own something designed to kill. That's puke worthy in my opinion.
So you would rather have someone get beat-up, raped or killed then have the legal right to protect themselves with a firearm?
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 12:17 AM   #21
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I read he kicked the door in. Most house doors can easily be kicked in even with a deadbolt.

Why would she need to unlock a safe and load it? If she has it holstered she could have drawn it in about ~1.5 seconds
The article says "he forced his way in" the house -whatever that means. It's being a SAFE gun owner (as DakotaGuy argues) to have a gun holstered at all times in a house while taking care of 2 children?
An alarm system could've also scared the intruder away in .5 seconds after "forcing his way in" or even prevented the break in, but we'll never know because that's not what happened.
I'm all for people being able to defend themselves, especially in their own homes, but trying to shove a gun argument into what actually happened in this case (from what was seen on the video and read in the article) leads to a whole bunch of what-ifs and focuses the attention away from the actual crime and the victim.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 12:40 AM   #22
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Sickening? Your opinion is sickening to me, you encourage people to own something designed to kill. That's puke worthy in my opinion.
Works for me. Had I been present and seen my wife being attacked I would have killed the attacker. No doubt. No hesitation. No fretting over the perils of gun ownership.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 01:21 AM   #23
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So you would rather have someone get beat-up, raped or killed then have the legal right to protect themselves with a firearm?
Now you're putting words in my mouth?

Guns or not, all these will still happen with added accidental gun deaths.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
Guns are completely safe if the owner is responsible, properly trained and follows all safety guidelines. The problem is that some gun owners don't treat the firearm with the respect it deserves. I have learned 1) You ALWAYS check to make sure the chamber is clear before you handle it even if you KNOW it's clear. 2) Even after you check to make sure it is clear you still handle it like it is loaded and never ever point it at yourself or another person. I never ever leave my rifle loaded because it only takes a couple of seconds to put in a magazine if I needed to defend myself. People who leave loaded guns lying around (or even unloaded for that matter) are asking for trouble. Last, even though I live by myself I still store my rifle unloaded in a safe out of reach and sight location.

It is not difficult to be a safe gun owner, however there are many that take shortcuts and don't seem to respect the power of the firearm.
In any perfect word, anybody can own anything they want. But the world as it is today, there too many people that are not careful and will remain so this way. Let's get out of our dream world and face reality shall we?
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 01:58 AM   #24
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Sickening? Your opinion is sickening to me, you encourage people to own something designed to kill. That's puke worthy in my opinion.
Yeah let's just offer an intruder some flowers. Peace and love and all that..........

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Old Jun 26, 2013, 02:04 AM   #25
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Yeah let's just offer an intruder some flowers. Peace and love and all that..........

The problem is on the one hand you allow extremely rare attacks like this to happen or you massively increase your risk of suicide and accidental death by carrying a gun around with you the whole time.

Additionally because the US as a whole has a very large number of guns it is easier for criminals to get hold of them.

These are trade offs you have to make - there are no obvious easy answers that let you defend yourself without putting yourself at risk in other ways.
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